CMV: It is far more important for a global leader (president, prime minister) to be good at dealing with people than it is that they personally be educated beyond your average college grad.

Going to be using president as this example, although it works for all major global leaders.

The president doesn't need to have an advanced understanding of climate change, law, or even geography and cultures in order to be a good leader. I believe it is far, far more important that a president can read people's motives, spot lies, and be open to advice.

The president can't know everything, he's going to have gaps in his knowledge, be it a certain geographical area's history, science, or legal issues. That's why leaders hire advisors, experts in their field of study to give him advice on things he doesn't know about. But here's what a president does need to know.

He needs to know if the people closest to him are lying, or are biased in one way or another. He needs to be able to communicate, be it with fellow countrymen, or people and leaders of other nations. The president is, when you boil it down to the bare bones of the job, a representative of his people. He needs to be able to listen, weigh different opinions, and see through the bullshit someone like that has to deal with every day. He needs to know how to charm, how to motivate, how to inspire more than anything else.

The president's job isn't to run the country, it's to pick the people who do, and make sure that they do what the people want them to do.


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Posted Dec 14, 2016, 4:59 AM UTC

922
Generic_On_Reddit36ƥ

He needs to know if the people closest to him are lying, or are biased in one way or another.

It is several times easier for him to do this I'd he actually has knowledge on what his people are talking about. Otherwise the basis on which he calls bullshit is faulty.

He needs to be able to communicate, be it with fellow countrymen, or people and leaders of other nations.

This is way easier if you're well versed and educated in the customs and traditions of many different peoples. You will communicate with other nation's leaders the best if you understand their language. This is obviously too high of a requirement, so we settle for understanding general rules of behavior and appropriate conduct.

The president's job isn't to run the country, it's to pick the people who do, and make sure that they do what the people want them to do.

The president sets the pace and direction of the country. He picks people that lead the country to some degree, but he should have a great enough understanding of the issues to determine how the people he leads will enact his vision, and he should know enough to be able to determine whether they're doing a good job at doing so.

A president may think "I enjoy his work in this field, I will make him of Secretary of Whatever." He can do this if he's versed and familiar with the field. If he isn't well versed, what is he basing the decision on? Feels like he's the right guy? Other people say he's good?

And most importantly, if you aren't well educated in something, you either don't have a vision on the direction you'd like to take us or it's not based on anything. If you don't understand how our choices effect the environment, how can we expect you to make choices (or appointments) that protect it. If you don't understand how our laws effect the economy, how can we trust you to recognize when laws will have adverse effects and strike them down? How can we trust you know the difference between one economist and another and which one to pick to help you lead?

You're simplifying what the president does quite a bit. What he does, first and foremost, is make decisions. He factors in what's important to us and he strategizes, planning his actions to produce the most good for all of us. These decisions require information, context, and the knowledge to know what they mean, as well as values that represent what's important to the citizens. Dealing with people is an important skill, but Presidential legacies are made on what they decided to do and whether they were smart enough to make the right decision. All the people skills in the world won't show you the best course of action.

8
ThebacklashOP•

From what I understand, the president isn't usually well versed in that many customs when he first decides to go to a country. He is given a "Crash course" of sorts on the big do's/don'ts. Sure, he has an average understanding of culture that someone like you or I, but considering the countless countries he needs to work with, he would have to be an anthropologist to understand them all, and a very good one at that.

As far as "knowing the issues" I think you might be forgetting just how many issues the president has to deal with... theirs health care, laws, military matters, government funding, money given to developing countries. To know as much as you seem to think he'd need to know he's need over a dozen doctorates just to understand fully the healthcare system and prescription drug regulation. No one man can do that, so they need to hire people who know what they are talking about.

As for deciding whether or not you should hire someone based on public opinion, it's actually a pretty good starting point. What others in the field think of the individual will speak volumes about him. Think of the current presidential choices for cabinet positions. Those choices clearly aren't based on the opinions of the experts in that field, and are solely based on one man's opinions and beliefs, a man who ISN'T an expert on stuff like climate change. If however he went with the popular opinion, he'd have someone who takes global warming seriously, as 97% of scientists do, and I think we'd be in a much better place for it.

The president, above all else, needs to keep in mind that he isn't the person everyone should look to. He's a specialist, he specializes in leadership.

Have you've ever heard the saying "Jack of all trades."? Most people forget the second part, "and master of none."

1
Generic_On_Reddit36ƥ

Sure, he has an average understanding of culture that someone like you or I, but considering the countless countries he needs to work with, he would have to be an anthropologist to understand them all, and a very good one at that.

Why do you think this? You don't have to he an anthropologist to have a cursory understanding of how you should go about a discussion with leaders from different countries based on different customs.

As far as "knowing the issues" I think you might be forgetting just how many issues the president has to deal with... theirs health care, laws, military matters, government funding, money given to developing countries. To know as much as you seem to think he'd need to know he's need over a dozen doctorates just to understand fully the healthcare system and prescription drug regulation. No one man can do that, so they need to hire people who know what they are talking about.

Again, why do you think this? You don't require a doctorate to have an understanding of something. You don't need a doctorate to understand the effects of money given to other countries. You don't need a doctorate to understand our health care system and determine problem areas and structures.

As for deciding whether or not you should hire someone based on public opinion, it's actually a pretty good starting point. What others in the field think of the individual will speak volumes about him. Think of the current presidential choices for cabinet positions. Those choices clearly aren't based on the opinions of the experts in that field, and are solely based on one man's opinions and beliefs, a man who ISN'T an expert on stuff like climate change. If however he went with the popular opinion, he'd have someone who takes global warming seriously, as 97% of scientists do, and I think we'd be in a much better place for it.

And he doesn't go with the consensus because he isn't properly educated on climate change. This is my point entirely. We have someone who isn't educated on an issue, so he doesn't pick a good understanding of who he should pick. He picks someone he feels is right.

Have you've ever heard the saying "Jack of all trades."? Most people forget the second part, "and master of none."

I'm aware of both parts of the phrase, and nowhere in my comment did I say he should be masters in all of them. I said he should have an understanding of all of them, so he understands the direction we should be going in, so he knows the signs to look for if we're on the right track so he can lead us in the proper direction. To go back to Trump, who doesn't believe in Climate Change, can he properly lead us in the best direction away from it? No. If it gets worse and worse from his actions, will he know enough about it to see he's making it worse and change course? No. All the social skills in the world will not help him.

They have appointees that can handle knowing every detail, of course, but you need knowledge to evaluate these appointees. Otherwise, they will be picked based on nothing and the president would be unable to evaluate what their underling is doing, whether it's important, effective, or worth it. This is effectively blindly trusting them with matters.

3
theshantanu8ƥ

What would you consider advance knowledge and what would you consider general knowledge? I ask because you seem to be arguing against a strawman here. Of course we can't have a president who has advance knowledge of every subject because its simply impossible to gain advance knowledge of every subject that a president deals with. What fo you consider a baseline, because I haven't come across anyone who demanded that a presidential candidate should know about everything.

5
ThebacklashOP•

I'm considering some form of formal education on the subject. I've seen many people saying we "need to elect a scientist"... I see what they are thinking, but a scientist should be in a lab, not running a country.

Lets try to think of building a character sheet for the president, and you are picking his main attributes. Well, a lot of people now might say "I want someone who's an expert on climate change, that way we'll fix global warming!" or "I want a doctor, who will encourage more funding for cancer research." Or maybe even "I want someone like Bill Gates, a tech genius who can make us the technological envy of the world!"

You don't want a specialist running a country, you want someone who understanding the common citizen, and is open to new information. I've met a few people that are genius, and I'm not exaggerating. I've met the top neurosurgeon in Ontario (possibly all of Canada), had him work on me, a really nice guy. I've met people who graduated from U of T with a degree in advanced chemistry, my family doctor started medical school at 16! Many of these people are great, they are smart, most of them are kind... but from my experience they can be pretty arrogant.

Take the U of T grad for example. He told my dad he thinks anyone without a university diploma should be earning minimum wage... and he believes that. My dad, by the way, is a caretaker for a school, and he said that right to his face and didn't see how that could upset anyone.

Genius can be useful, but it doesn't always make a good leader, or someone you'd want running your country.

2
HigHog•

You don't want a specialist running a country, you want someone who understanding the common citizen, and is open to new information.

You seem to be working on the assumption that being a specialist is dichotomous with being a people person. Someone who has advance education in a subject can still be adept at reading people, and indeed having a PhD is likely to mean they're better than average at synthesising new information.

2
ThebacklashOP•

My statement was that one is more important than the other, not that both can not exist in a single person.

I said, in my experience, that those at the very top of their field, the geniuses that one might consider for a political career due to their work in certain scientific fields, usually have a very narrow focus. That isn't a bad thing, it's what makes them great at their job. However, you need a broad focus to be president.

I have also found, as I'm sure many have, that arrogance can come hand in hand with someone who is that smart in a specific field. There is a reason god complexes are so common among the worlds greatest doctors.

1
theshantanu8ƥ

You say you want a president who has understanding at the level of a common citizen and is open to new information. The problem is, an average person has surprisingly little information. Take a look at this study here. So now you have two problems. You either have someone who knows very little as to how the government works and has to learn a lot, or you have someone who has above average knowledge in how the government works. Choose option number one and you have chosen someone who will waste a lot of time. Choose option two and you're saying that you need someone with above average knowledge and not just great people skills.

1
Iswallowedafly23ƥ

If I hadn't taken the time to know about something how do I know if my advisors are giving me great information or a total pile of bull shit.

To do proper evaluation you need to have a good level of perspective on a topic. You have to know what you know and don't know. If you don't even know that then there will be problems.

A leader might be surrounded by yes men and loyal idiots simply saying what the leader wants to hear.

And I want a leader who can actually govern. I don't want an empty suit who talks a good game and then blames others for his mistakes.

1
ThebacklashOP•

The first thing I addressed was the importance of being able to tell if someone is feeding you bullshit, so I think that's covered.

A good level of perspective is important, I agree. But I think that's what advisors are for, you have experts from the field talk you through what has been confirmed, what hasn't, and make your decision based on their input.

I think that a person who is good at understanding people will be able to spot a "yes man".

1
Iswallowedafly23ƥ

In order to know if someone is feeding you bullshit or real information you have to know about a topic.

That's a needed thing.

Your the leader. it is your job to become informed about things so you can find the best people.

If you just delegate to everyone else you will fall for whatever bull shit they are telling you.

For instance.

I live in shanghai, China. I'm going to assume that you have never been to my city.

I could give you an itinerary for a three day trip that would, on appearance, sound amazing.

But I would really be taking you to the crappiest places ever.

now if you did a little research on my city you know that I was talking a great talk, but feeling you a pile.

It is the same with a leader on any issue.

1
ThebacklashOP•
1
Iswallowedafly23ƥ

You kind of avoided a very important question

If you didn't take the time to do a basic level of research how would you know if my planned 3 days was a great plan or a very bad plan.

that is an important question. '

How can you evaluate something if you don't have knowledge about that thing.

How do you know I'm lying to you when I tell you that a temple is great or that a restaurant is the best in town?

1
Havenkeld18ƥ

far more important that a president can read people's motives, spot lies, and be open to advice.

A president is going to be dealing with people who are good at hiding motives, lying, and giving questionable advice. A certain understanding of other people is important, but it's not enough. You want to minimize the edge they get, because they are both good at dealing with people and knowledgeable.

The president can't know everything, he's going to have gaps in his knowledge

Sure, but you can have a reasonable amount of broad knowledge that allows for a better starting point when interacting with advisors and experts. Plus the president does have to choose between these people, and people skills aren't always going to tell you whether their ideas are nonsense, especially if you believe in the same nonsense they do to start with.

Also, what beliefs a president espouses tells a person something about how good they are at navigating the world of ideas in the first place. This is why it's upsetting when a president holds beliefs that are counter to what are at or near a consensus in various fields, and even worse when he chooses people antagonistic to an important institution's entire purpose to run it.

1
ThebacklashOP•

I am not saying he doesn't need to do his research, what I am saying is that selecting those sources is the most important job he has. Mainly, if you want an expert option on something like the president is dealing with, you want to talk to someone face to face, ask questions, work out a plan with them. That is a form of research.

What I might not have been clear on is that I don't expect him to listen to just "one" source, I expect him to hold meetings with experts, to discuss the issue until he believes he understands it, and continue on from there. The only way that works is if he can tell who seems to have a bias, and why. That takes keen people skills, an ability to read people.

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Havenkeld18ƥ

I am not saying he doesn't need to do his research, what I am saying is that selecting those sources is the most important job he has.

Yes, and I'm saying that to make wise selections for those sources you need experience, knowledge, understanding that you get from education beyond an average college grad.

I wouldn't just pick a good salesman to be a president because they're good at dealing with people. The president should know more about the government structure and legal system of the country especially, since that is very relevant for the position.

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