Unnamed continent (approximate) altitude map - opinions welcome !
Posted Apr 5, 2017, 9:56 AM UTC
715127
Over all impression is very good.
One minor nit to pic
Rivers that seem to follow ridge lines there are a couple of examples where the river either doubles back and flows in parallel to the contour line, or else doubles back on a high area or flows on what would seem to be a ridge line.
Of course rivers can start in highland areas, but rivers mark the bottoms of valleys, gullys, etc, and so are weird on ridges
EDIT
As an example, here is a graphic showing some generated ridge contour lines for a section of your map. This illustrates what the implied ridge lines are for the general contour lines you have.
http://i.imgur.com/kAUnja7.jpg
Of course you can make the contour line which ever way you want , but this is why the rivers in this location look weird to me
23
I tried to make the river paths erratic, since they generally are at this scale. Especially in mountains, the path of rivers can be really constrained by the surroundings.
11
well, you can flip it around, and let the rivers define the mountains
As an example, using the same general area
https://i.imgtc.com/s8m7Wqz.png
YMMV
15
Just about your edit : remember that the relief map is very approximative, and that a lot of detail is lost because of huge scale of the legend and of the map. So there isn't just one single mountain range in that area, for example ; it's more like a large cluster or plateau of many peaks.
Also, how did you make those contour lines ? They're pretty cool
5
Thanks, glad you like! Of course just an example . . .
Several steps
- In gimp there is a gradient fill option that runs based on the selected shape. This let me generate a grey scale height map based on selecting between the rivers
- edit as appropriate by adding in subtle amounts of additional white or black
- save result
- open result in Photoshop (because I like the tools there for this) select the terrain only
- Apply a large amount of blur to the height map so it's not so jagged
- find the posterize option and apply the number of levels that give a good result (typically 20-40)
- This gives you a grey scale contour. Apply "Find Edges" to generate the contour lines from the grey scale contour.
- adjust contrast and brightness as appropriate
The key bits are
- Height map (with blur)
- "Posterize" for contour generation
- "Find Edges"
5
we need context if we're going to leave it up, be it cultural, political, storical, biological, historical or rhetorical.
21
What did you make this with? (if it's just Photoshop could you share your tools and techniques?) I've never bothered trying to do proper altitude/terrain maps before, but now I really want to try my hand at one because yours looks so damn good.
14
Inkscape! I mostly used a smoothed pencil tool on Inkscape to make this. I inspired myself a lot from high school geography textbook maps like this which have this very "approximate", rounded feeling to them.
20
How long did it take? What was most easy/hard part?
3
I didn't count the time, but probably some 5-10 hours. I used a particularly inefficient method though - first I drew it on paper, then scanned it, and made a black/white land/sea silhouette on GIMP (I believe), and finally selected the outline in Inkscape. That part wasn't so long. I used the pencil tool to draw the relief "layers". That probably took the longest, since I often had to zoom out to check that it looked natural and go back to fine tune it.
5
How did you get the colours to appear sort of translucent? Is it just that you picked the right colours or is there a setting I should be aware of?
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I just picked the colours carefully. But you can change the opacity of a shape to make it blend if it works better for you !
5
Ok, cheers.
1
Looks like you're basing it on Anatolia.
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There's a lot of different inspirations for the different parts.
14
If you put it on it's side it looks like Europe.
6
I won't lie, most bits of this map are plagiarized from inspired by places in the real world ^^
6
The shape of the map kinda reminds of Essos from Game of Thrones.
5
I'm curious about how you developed the mountain ranges and lakes/seas. Right in the middle you have 3 chains forming a triangle with relative lowlands in the middle. The large sea on the right also appears to be fed by three mountain rivers big enough to show on this scale, yet it has no outlet to the sea. Same thing with the smaller lake in the middle.
4
I haven't thought too much about the large sea on the right, but I think it will drain into the ocean (just not depicted, I'll probably add that now that you've pointed it out). In the center I explicitly set up an endoheric basin after reading about the civilisations that developed in the Tarim basin around the Silk Road trade. For some reason it really appealed to me, so that's what I'm hoping to create there. So, think of the sea in the middle like the Caspian or Aral Sea.
I also think I might want to add some detail to the mountain ranges, the scale is not very realistic right now.
4
It could be a salty inland sea!
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It could be, but I already have that. I might just make the coast go up and join the sea and make a bit of a mediterranean-type-thing.
3
Sounds like you'd like to hire my in-world High-Tech Modern Roman Engineering Corp!
2
The 500m altitude area between the higher mountain ridges could make for the site of a lost city written about in ancient tales (if that's applicable to your world). Think Machu Picchu. But that's just my opinion. Anyway, cool map!
3
Thanks ! That area is pretty much a huge desert, I might put a lost desert city in the middle. The rivers around there are seasonal at best and we can imagine that a river dried up forcing the inhabitants out of the city. It would then survive only in legend.
2
Amazing
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Thanks !
3
mine is shittier
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I took a look at it, and I don't think it's shitty at all, especially if it's your first! If aesthetics is what you want, you just have to practise and see what works, what doesn't. But ultimately, what's important is that it helps you see the spatial organisation of your world more concretely.
3
thanks, nice to hear words of encouragment...
1
Looks like France without Spain.
3
Lots of small volcanic islands in the sea. I can imagine some very interesting myths and folklore arising among the natives from the anger of the land and the sea.
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That's fantastic ! Is it plagiarism if I steal this idea into this world ? :P
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I lack the funds to sue you anyway
5
I really like continents sticking out from the sides. Makes it more mysterious. Really like the small Islands.
2
Seems like you made 2 endoheric basins on purpose? Also: on river set in your northern hemisphere has unnatural branching
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The one to the East is not on purpose, I'll fix that soon. And the northern area is very flat, so that's done on purpose.
2
Even if the north is really flat, rivers won't branch like that unless there is some artificial barrier keeping them in an energetically unfavorable state.
Really cool map btw.
2
I dunno, I looked at some maps of rivers in Russia and they do some pretty wonky things - but I think those are manmade diversions, so you're probably right. I'll remove the little river branching out.
And thanks for the compliment!
3
I love the map. Looks really cool. The top-down looks really good. In that bay, the one West of the major mountain range. Perhaps less small islands? It looks a little unrealistic considering archipelagos don't usually look like that. However, that is a aesthetic choice of yours. Not mine. Lol
2
I see what you mean. I might remove a few when I get around to it!
3
Btw. Maybe a more liberal use of the dark brown for your mountains would be nicer. Right now the lower ones look like hills or plains. Doing that could allow you the ability to more clearly differentiate between hills and smaller mountains. Plains I would think are tan with a little bit of orange speckles here and there. Or gold lines maybe
3
This isn't really a relief map - the altitude colours aren't precise enough to distinguish small detail, so low hills aren't distinguishable from a low plateau. I will probably make a separate map that overlays onto this one with more details about the relief.
3
Alright I gotcha. Shot spitballing some ideas for details I suppose. When you post the overlay I'll try to come back and take a look at that as well.
Plus, I love adding onto people's ideas for landmarks and stuff. I have a brain for that type of stuff. (Creating things that can be used regardless of timeline in a world, I mean)
3
The only thing missing is some detailing to the body of water. Would love to see more variations of this map! (cultural, political)
2
What method are you using for the altitude?
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Do you mean to determine the altitude of a given point? Mostly it's just gut instinct. There's no precise method.
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Mmm, was wondering if you were following a methology for the shape and points of height. Been having difficulty showing altitude correctly in my own maps, so result to using textures that give the illusion of mountain ranges etc, when really they're just rust textures.
http://i.imgur.com/okPfx4V.png
But it isn't quite what i feel is right, though I am doing a more distanced map currently, about the size of oceania.
1
Consider a lake that has a small island on the south side. Or a mountain larger than the rest in the chain. One thing I really take joy in is creating and then making stories for those types of things. Like let's say that the southern most peak on your major mountain chain has a large caveat the base of the mountain. This is known to all inhabitants of the region and inside is a opening to a underground complex of a society of goblins. Brought together by a being of different origins than that realm. Stuff like that lol. I understand wanting to make stuff like this on your own, though. But if you want small ideas or concepts that you would like to implement into the world in later development get at me. I love doing that type of creation. The small details are what bring a world to life, after all.
2
Unfortunately, I think I'll keep this world apart from fantasy, magic or other supernatural things. What I want to explore in this world is things like economics, sociology, the way whole societies organise themselves and interact, on a large scale. But if you have any ideas of this sort for cultural traits (like Egyptians building pyramids), or a specific wonder for this world, I'm all ears!
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Btw, what program did you use to make this map?
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Inkscape for the most part.
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This is a really cool map, I really love it. There's plenty of fun looking spots - top left where the two lands meet, the lake in the middle of the mountain range, that little basin (is that what it's called?) to the south - just a really cool looking map.
How'd you make it can I ask? Just hand draw it and went over it in photoshop or something? I read what you commented about just creating a world and then people for it and I love that idea, I'm kind of tempted to try that myself honestly, although I'll probably mess it up somehow.
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The process was very roundabout : I first drew it, scanned it, made a black-and-white silhouette using some tool in GIMP, I can't really remember exactly ; then I exported it and imported it into Inkscape and generated a path that included all of the black space; finally I took the outline of that.
What do you mean about messing it up somehow ? After all, it's a fictional world, and your fictional world - if you're doing it for yourself, then there's no "wrong". You should definitely just start and see where it takes you.
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The process was very roundabout
I'll say! That's quite the method... I think it's a bit much for lazy ol' me, heh heh - but it turned out fantastic, so hopefully some other people make good use of that technique!
What do you mean about messing it up somehow ? After all, it's a fictional world, and your fictional world - if you're doing it for yourself, then there's no "wrong".
You underestimate my abilities! There is always something I get wrong, and then it gets the binning or the shelving. Or I just ignore it and forget about it. It's my world sure, but I never feel like... I can get it how I want, it's never good enough for me, I always mess it up, there's something fundamentally wrong with it, probably because I made it.
3
I can understand why you say this, I've left behind me so many dead projects I can't even count them. Too often I draw up plans so ambitious that I could never complete them, and even if I stay small I just run out of steam. Personally, though, and I don't know if this could be good advice for your own self, I think just making is the fun, regardless of the result, so I don't get so worried about it.
2
Yeah, I have fun making things as well - but it's kind of annoying to not have anything to show for it, you know? Like, there are so many prompts posted, but rarely can I actually contribute to them - and when I do it's just a vague idea rather than a part of an actual world.
It's like, I'm just making car tires, but no actual car, you know? Tires are cool... but I'm not going anywhere soon.
2
Reminded me of the Bering Strait a bit
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With this project I want to try and create a (fairly realistic) world from scratch. I want to start from the basics of geography (climate, relief, etc.), then create cultures (without going too deep into the details) and linguistic groups at a specific date (which would be the equivalent of 3000 B.C.), and then try to let the world evolve on its own using specific, systematised rules: essentially, I'll give the initial state of the world and allow it develop on its own. I don't think these rules will be absolutely specific, but the idea is to get each human, king, adviser, tribe, and any other social group in this world act in a way that would make sense in the real world. That doesn't mean that they'll act entirely rationally, and the rules will almost certainly involve a lot of chance.
To be clear, I don't actually believe that you can model the real world in this way, nor do I believe in absolute geographic determinism, but I think it's an interesting exercise - kinda like an aquarium on a planetary scale. Besides, I'll almost certainly add in some things and modify the world in a way that I prefer.
I'm sort of inspiring myself from very large scale video games like Civilization and EU4, where often people will allow the AI to play a game on its own without the intervention of the actual player. I want to capture that feeling of awe and scale that you get when you watch timelapses of such games, where you can see, imagine, and feel empires rising and falling.
So, this is the first step. I've also drafted an approximate precipitation, temperature and climate map of the entire planet, and a biome map of this region.
I first drew this map with the idea that the scale should be such that I'd get a nice range of temperature across the continent; the northernmost tip would touch the arctic circle and the southernmost tip would be deep within the tropics. I estimated that from north to south there should be about 6000-7000km. But I realised before posting that there wasn't any scale, so I drew one real quick, but I think the bar is a little small. So don't take the scale too seriously.
I'd be happy to hear what you think - I'm quite proud of the coastline just from an aesthetic standpoint! If you could ask me questions about this world in the state it is theoretically in (~-3000BC) I'll try to come up with some answers, and it would really help me flesh out this world. It's still a WIP, but I hope you like it!
I absolutely LOVE what you've made here! This looks a lot like the sorts of maps you find in history books! The way you've sculpted the terrain, rivers, coastlines, this is seriously good work! Do you have any lore about the sorts of peoples living here? By your theoretical estimations I'm guessing they're nearing the onset of (or currently enjoying) their own bronze age (thinking along IRL lines). What sorts of cultures and civilizations are forming in this land?
Can't wait to see more of this project!
Thanks so much for the kind words ! That's exactly the kind of style I was shooting for here - a little austere, serious and dry rather than fantastical for a change.
I did explicitly try to start out with the bronze age and see where I could go from here. As far as lore, I have a few ideas for the kinds of societies we might be seeing at this time.
I'd say that by far and wide the dominant societal structure is tribal organisation, with smaller, loose coalitions coming and going, especially in the northern region and far West.
The lower regions of the endoheric basin to the East will have some smaller kingdom-like structures as more intensive modes of agriculture begin developing. The south-western area that looks like Greece is where bronze (the specific alloy as opposed to copper) will first be discovered, and it will spread quickly, especially towards the East, where a Egypt-like civilisation will develop around the fertile flood plains of the desert.
A specific kind of kingdom will develop here, where administration is mostly decentralised and tribal affiliations remain very strong. The king is a mostly religious figurehead, and a representative of the nation that is beginning to coalesce thanks to the constancy that the river brings. Political life is centred about the king's palace. This "palace kingdom" political organisation will become widespread in the southern regions of this continent.
I'm not as of yet sure how the western and northern parts will develop, though.
I've also got a few outlines for linguistic families, with one, main language family (akin to Indo-European) dominating, and a few smaller minority families, the most important of which will be in the North. I've got some ideas for a phonology for the proto-language of the main family.
That sounds fantastic! I have a real keen interest in early civilizations, so what you're making here as me really hooked haha. You can bet I will be eagerly awaiting further posts!
Love the bronze age ground-up approach!
So the political system of the Egypt-y civilization sounds cool, especially the connection with religion. Is the king seen as a high priest? a god? a djinn? I know you want a realistic world - but with early civilization so much seems to be possible in "what could have been" when it comes to how humans see themselves and the world while still staying true to the physical aspects of "reality". So while there is no actual real magic what the people believe will still be in fact magical especially in societies that early where a modern idea of science is still way over the horizon.
bicameralism might be something that might interest you if you have not heard about it yet. When was the supposed eve-takes-the-apple-moment in this world? When did humans start thinking of themselves as an individual, a seperate person?
Death is also always something to look at as it's maybe the hot religious question in that stage I guess. Whether you are in some samsara merry go-around or your death means you have to take some dubious ferry across a black river is super influental in day-to-day biz.
So what I would love to see is some form of functional early religion with institutions like temples/rituals but also with whacked out metaphysics attached to the whole thing. maybe there is a crazy amount of dinosaur bones in the desert to be found and some belief forms around them with bone temples and dragon priests. I know a bit cheesy but trying to fit the dragon religion with the rest of the let's say a bit more serious beliefs sounds hilarious if it manages to survive into later "ages".
Super interested in this project!
I just stumbled across this on popular, but I recently made my own terrain generator that you guys might enjoy. It makes maps like this automatically
What's the link?
Got a link?
Link please.
The map is fantastic, and I love the world-building experiment you've set out for yourself here. I'm curious about these rules you've proposed: how do you see them working? Is this something you'd actually model algorithmically, with code (seems unlikely, given what you've said)? Are the rules going to be guidelines you set for yourself as you let things play out from your initial conditions? Do you see this as a collaborative project, with the rules as guidelines for the various folks who'll drive the story forward?
Altogether, really exciting!
First, thanks for the kind words !
The rules would probably not be algorithmic. However, some parts of it could be calculated in this way.
One thing that's on my mind is some kind of trade system inspired by EU4. I had an idea by which one could separate this world into trade areas each dominated by one central trade hub. The borders of the trade areas and the hub could of course change with history. Then I could factor in obstacles like wars, mountains, bridge tolls for rivers, stormy seas, tariffs (if the trader must go through an isolationist state) or even piracy to calculate the price of a specific commodity coming from some specific trade hub, as purchased in another trade hub. Then I could use this to figure out from where the cheapest of this commodity would come from, and therefore where the demand would be directed.
The "rules" would be more than just guidelines - I want them to be specific enough to narrow down among a few options that make sense from a historical perspective. I think the "rules" would more be a series of question I would ask myself every time I wanted to create some history. There would be three parts to the rules.
First of all, figure out the current state of affairs in an area. Who are the key players - monarchs (obviously), ministers, advisers, religious figureheads, regional and local leaders and governors, but also factions and classes like "the woodworkers", "the farmers", and so on ? If it is a class or faction, how united is it ? Should I maybe separate the faction into two ? What are their different motives ? How expensive are common commodities like grain, salt, stone ? What's the weather like ? I think the motive question is the most important one, because it's the measuring stick according to which I'd decide how to divide the population. Basically, if a population has similar conditions, motives, and coordination, they can be considered a faction.
Then, figure out what are the different possibilities that make sense for each key player. For a king, it could be that they decide to remove some specific player, or that they are deposed. For a faction or class like "the farmers", it could be that they are subject to a famine, or that they are swept by a religious conversion. To be clear, these possibilities do not mean "what is the course of action that this player should undertake", but "what is a logical possibility".
Finally, choose what possibility occurs for each player, and see how these possibilities interact.
The main challenges are setting up the initial state for the entire continent at the year 0 and figuring out a categorised list of questions to ask for the first part.
I've never thought that this could be a collaborative project, but it's an interesting idea ! It would definitely make this ambitious project a lot more accessible. However, there could be problems with self-consistency, and besides that, each collaborator would have their own vision of the project which could compete and lead to conflicting an contradictory modes of action for each player as each collaborator tried to get them to act in different ways.
However, having a group of people debate over the specific questions in the first part could be really interesting, kinda like how people will argue about what is going to happen in a TV show - except that their decisions actually have bearing on the plot.
I'm interested in your climate model. Are you using the orbital and axial patterns of the Earth? Where's the 0 Parallel? Wind patterns?
I'm using a very primitive model inspired by the famous Climate Cookbook - figure out very general temperature, wind, ocean current, and precipitation patterns for each season each year.
Are you exogenously assigning these or are you using the geomorphology and planetary patterns to determine them? I would love to help although I'm no expert
Are you asking whether I'm just picking the biomes at random or rather taking into account the terrain and thinking about where biomes should go? If so it's mostly the second with a sprinkling of the first.
You made everything on Photoshop? Wow, it's awesome!
Nope, on Inkscape. Thanks !
Love it!, Is there a way I can keep posted about the progress?