So given the popularity of more and more anti-zombie cards like [[sweltering suns]] or [[Chandra Flamecaller]] seeing play I was thinking of playing 4X [[Plague Belcher]] in the main, probably in place of Liliana's Mastery, which is too slow against marvel or UR control.
Is this a good idea? or is the worse consistency against other decks not worth it? thoughts?
Posted May 30, 2017, 8:07 AM UTC
I'm not sure Plague belcher is worth it, sure it dodges sweltering suns and kills chandra to add it to the board wipe but it's gonna cost you a body in a deck that goes wide and a 5/4 isn't much to build on to regain a win after a wipe. Mastery you can't cast on occasion but if you get it down it makes most of your draws signifigantly better and allows you to rebuild a board pretty well, not to mention the sheer power of dropping one on turn 5 after even just a half decent curve out. I think if you put plague belcher in you would cut something in the three drop slot and again I think both those cards are better both proactively and as pieces to rebuild your board after a wipe.
Edit: forgot about the reach added by the lose life ability but I don't think that changes my position any.
it dodges sweltering suns and kills chandra
That seems like a really great deal though. Plus his second effect means most opponents don't even want to wipe my board since the damage might kill them.
In every game I played I was more scared of boardwipes than anything else. Plague Belcher not only survives he might deal a shit-ton of damage on top of it if my other cards gets wiped)
I feel like it's plugging a big hole in my decks defences.
Red black suicide deck, using [[Sweltering Suns]] [[Plague Belcher]] [[Insult//Injury]] and a lot of zombies
Sweltering Suns - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Plague Belcher - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Insult//Injury - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think Belcher fits into the W/B decks with Wayward Servant, when a big part of your plan is to ping them. Otherwise that slot is filled by Diregraf Colossus.
I don't plan on replacing the colossus, I plan on playing both. In fact they combo really well.
The colossus creates a free token as an outlet for the belcher's -1/-1 tokens
That is a plan, but then the deck is moving away from its low to the ground aggro plan, and toward a midrange value plan. I don't think that's where the zombie deck is going to succeed in this metagame.
It's never really been low to the ground aggro which is why the deck is so awful to wraths. It just wants to flood the board and the 8/8 1/2 drops let's it establish early and pull ahead quick.
Id drop the Lord before Colossus.
Maybe he is good post board when people bring in a bunch of sweepers and aren't prepared for him?
This is a really good point to consider. I might try him postboard instead.
Cool. I wonder what you cut though. Any ideas?
probably the fatal pushes since marvel etc doesn't really have anything I want to target
I was also surprised how good it was. Swapping 2/2 body (generic zombie) and 3 mana for 5/4 body and one damage seems okay. Perhaps a 2/2 split with Liliana's Mastery might be worth testing in friendly games? It might be a natural substitute when Diregraf rotates, unless there will be a new 2B zombie in HOD.
I don't think zombies can exist at that point. it will lose diregraf, cryptbreaker, relentless dead, and dark salvation. it will also lose grasp unless that gets a reprint.
The only critical thing zombies lose is cryptbreaker, it NEEDS it's 2nd 1 drop and it's CA engine.
Ya, I think the zombie deck dies with rotation. There isn't any replacing cryptbreaker.
Though if a zombie deck does survive, it'll likely be the white black version.
Or switch to B/W Zombies. After they clear your board, you play Dusk/Dawn, clearing their board, and filling your hand with gas next turn.
I haven't thought about using this card in BW Zombs, I'll have to test this out.
As Dusk, most of your zombies can dodge the wipe if you don't have a Lord on the field. If you have a Lord and a Belcher, you can use it as a finisher on stalled boards.
A downside is that Dawn costs 5 mana, so it requires a turn to get your zombies back to your hand.
Another downside is the double white cost on the card, but if you can effectively play a Gideon, you could slot this on the SB too.
This is somethingI've never cleared out. When you Dusk, killing , let's say 10 Zombies and Belcher, can you make your opponent lose 10 hp from the Belcher trigger even though he is going to die as well ?
Yes, it sees each other creature die, just like Zulaport Cutthroat and Languish back in the day.
sweltering suns - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Chandra Flamecaller - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Plague Belcher - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Has anyone else dropped metallic mimics?
While I do side them out in certain match-ups I find their power as a "pseudo-lord" to great to downright drop.
Where do you side him out? Or do you know of any general sideboarding guides? I just built the deck two days ago so I'm not sure about about a lot of the major matchups.
There is a matchup guide article on mtgmintcard
Thank you!
In the mirror I side out all 4, a mastery and a dark salvation for 2 Gonti, 2 Yahennis expertise (if they get ahead of me) and 2 transgress the mind
It will probably become a more popular choice to sideout as a lot of decks are running artifact hate in the mainboard now. That being said, the upside of just dropping a mimic and anything in followup still makes it worth it even if you know he will get removed. 2 colorless mana is a pretty low opportunity cost for him IMO.
I see why it's played but I'm dead against it but I'm running scrapheap scrounges and prized amalgam main as it just seems to play really well
2 for 1 with harnessed lightning does seem good.
I was thinking of trying him in my for-fun mono black modern deck as he has synergy with bloodghast/dread wanderer/gravecrawler. Also can be cute when messenger has a +1/+1 counter on him making him able to come back a 2nd time.
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I top 8ed before the pro with mono b playing 4 of these main. I would not do it again but it definetly won me games where ppl were relying on sweepers to win. the huge thing about this card is its interaction with [[Westvale Abbey]]
Westvale Abbey/Ormendahl, Profane Prince - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why would you not do it again? Especially if it "won you games"? What's the downside i'm not seeing?
it is slower than other options at that mana cost. Your 3's are glutted up with colossus and lord. Lili's mastery is just the best card the deck can ever cast. Its not that the card is nessearily bad, its just that your other cards are so good. However, it is powerful vs sweepers and if that is giving you problems (not being able to play around sweepers), then it could be a promising option.
I mean coming from me ( UR Control) player, if I'm on the play I will usually have an answer for it. Along with Glimmers and Lightning I will have the energy to kill it. Someone at my LGS played a few MB. He got me to 1 life in game 3 and I stabilized and won the game
To me he is less of a mainboard option, as Colossus straight up buff itself post board wipe while help you recover bodies when you cast new Zombie spells, Blecher doesn't do much after a Wipe.
Also to fit in Blecher would mean having to remove some of our 1 - 2 Drops as the only thing above 3 is Liliana Mastery and that's not something I'll swipe out for.
Since I saw his interaction with diregraf that literally provides the body to apply the -1 counters, I've thought of him as an amazing value creature. His second ability also puts low health opponents in a position where they may not want to board clear, "damned if I do, damned if I don't" type of situation. He seems extremely powerful and valid, especially when most decks carry 3+ forms of board clear nowadays (sweltering suns, being the most popular choice). I'd love to know if anyone has tested him in mono black, I would, but I recently sold out of it before the prices dropped any further.
I tested an early build already and sometimes it's just crazy.
T1: Dread wanderer
T2: metallic Mimic
t3: Plague Belcher, killing the wanderer
I now have a 6/5 menace creature on the board by turn 3.
That's a really tight clock to play around.
As crazy as this is, it's also crazy bad when your opponent has an answer. If they have any removal spell, you're opening yourself for an easy 2-for-1. If this is your 3 drop, sometimes you can't even play around that possibility. This play is quite similar to putting a 3 mana aura on your creature (+3/+3 and menace for 3 mana is truly a great rate), but it has the same vulnerability. And no matter how cute the interaction is, Dread Wanderer isn't free to get back from the grave. I could definitely see a couple Belchers, it is absurdly powerful, but it has a real setup cost and comes with diminishing returns.
Edit: Not how revolt works, was thinking along the lines of Bone Picker. Illustration is less important than the point it makes.
That's not how revolt works...
How does it turn on revolt for them?
I think he is strong and can be explosive, however, there is one draw back in my mind. By himself he is a 2B 3/2 with menace and reach, which isn't too shabby, but at the 3 drop slot I feel diregraf does more. What would you drop? It's very hard to even debate what you would swap out.
True, I wouldn't recommend playing him unless you have an outlet to put the counters on (like a dread wanderer or a token). You really want him at full power.
Personally I am debating taking out [[Liliana's Mastery]] to the side.
Also, he doesn't have reach, he deals 1 damage each time a zombie dies.
He means reach in the sense that a burn deck has "reach".
Liliana's Mastery - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I suspect losing some number of zombie lords/anthems for some number of belchers may be correct. I wouldn't want to go lower than 4 diregraf.
How about [[Tattered Mummy]] T2 [[Plague Belcher]] T3.
3 nearly unavoidable dmg to life, and a 5/4 menace, with zombie synegies.
Tattered Mummy - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
Plague Belcher - (G) (MC) (MW) (CD)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Zombies have good two drops for the first time in like ever, use them.