Based off of Meltzer's rant last night that Vince cools off talent from NXT.
Last 4 years:
Enzo/Cass: Higher
Becky: Slightly Higher
Balor: Same
Tye: Same
Mojo: Same
Nakamura: Lower
Zayn: Lower
Sasha: Lower
Breeze: Way Lower
Bayley: Way Lower
AA: Abysmal
Posted Jun 5, 2017, 5:07 PM UTC
Becky 100%, she was always the least over of the four horsewoman in NXT. Her solo time on Smackdown helped a lot.
Her solo time on Smackdown helped a lot.
How? By the time she arrived on Smackdown the crowd was chanting for her to win the title.
It's amazing to me, in retrospect, that she was the one I was most worried about when she, Charlotte, and Sasha got called up. Glad I was wrong.
Well to be fair to Becky she's the only one(HW) that didn't have a lot of time with her over gimmick(steampunk/lasskicker) in NXT. She debuted her Steampunk gimmick in her famous Takeover match with Sasha in May 2015. A month in a half later she got called up to Raw. Before that she was a irish Jig dancer, then a rocker chick, then a lackey for Sasha. The 4hw four way also helped Becky. Becky had the shortest time in NXT to call up between the other 4HW too.
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If anything I would say Nakamura is same.
EDIT: And that's only because he's only been on the main roster like two months.
I agree; given that I feel Nakamura was tepid at best in NXT. After the debut with Sami he just sort of coasted.
It feels worse on the main roster because his debut match was forgettable. At least he had a hot start in NXT.
The fact Ziggler went on to beat the most over wrestler on the brand only a week later probably means they were trying to protect Ziggler for... something? I don't know, I just want it to make sense.
"I just want it to make sense" sums up my viewing experience these past few years after I got back into wrestling.
I'm vaguely okay with the win over AJ. Ziggler's heel turn isn't meaningful if he's not actually presented as a threat. The MITB six appears to be Smackdown's current main event cadre, and he needs a bit of a lift for that.
Not defending his match against Nakamura though. Typical WWE babyface sell-fest.
...are you fucking kidding?
So you think he's less over than in NXT?
You would have to be ignorant or naive or stupid to think otherwise.
..not really? The crowd Chants "Nakamura" every time he's in the ring, they sing his song, they pop really loud when his music hits. Maybe he isn't as over as he was when his music hit at Dallas a year ago, but hes definitely over to a similar level as most of his NXT Tenure. You're acting like he gets silence or something.
I think he's as over as in NXT except they debuted him terrible. Too many vignettes, too long between announcing him and him actually wrestling, too much talking (he doesn't need to talk much). Too wrong of a 1st challenger (should've been miz).
Becky is a lot higher. She was a heel in NXT then got over with the NXT crowd when she faced Sasha at Takeover. After that she got hurt, and I believe only appeared one more time in NXT, against Bayley. She was over there, but not like she is now.
I think Enzo and Cass are worse off now because people legitimately are getting tired of them, whereas back in NXT they were just as big fan favorites as Sami Zayn, American Alpha, or any of the four horsewomen
Because they weren't on TV every week
They were down there for years though like since the very early stages of NXT, and even though they werent on every week that's a very long time to remain invested in an act. And it was really since day one.
Whereas a couple months into their run on the main roster some of the fans already started to turn on them.
They still get big pops and sell merch
It's almost like the dynamics of what works with a small, highly enfranchised audience doesn't necessarily correlate to a massive audience made up of a wide variety of interest levels.
Yeah, that sounds like an excuse main roster officials would come up with.
Can you blame them? its either that or admit they don't know how to book for shit.
Or anyone with a decent IQ and understanding of how society works
Or you know, you have all these popular guys, you don't handle their booking well and their popularity drops?
Pretty much all these guys debuted with great reaction and they kept that reaction on main roster for a fairly long time before Creative shut them down.
I think it's a mixture. There are some guys who will get over exclusively with a room full of smarks, and the casual masses will turn their collective nose up. There are some who, if properly utilized, will get over anywhere. There's absolutely no question that WWE isn't properly utilizing many, as the gimmicks that fall into the latter category are suffering just as much.
I dont see how they can take top tier NXT people in NXT sized rooms with NXT crowds and inject them into the main roster without making it seem like a let down. It's a big fish/small pond thing. If everyone came in as hot as Finn it's be impossible to swallow.
Seth: Higher
Enzo & Cass are less over than at their peak during the NXT UK tour.
Alexa, Charlotte and Rusev are among the few who are more over now.
On the other hand you have Crews, Kalisto, Zayn, Joe, Neville, Dallas, Breeze, Nakamura (who steadily declined since his NXT debut), Alpha, Ascension, Bayley, Sasha, Dana, Nia, Emma, and Carmella.
Bálor, Owens, Corbin, Mojo and Becky are about the same.
Carmela was way more over in NXT as a babyface than she was as a babyface her first couple of months on Smackdown.
And is more over as a heel than she ever was in NXT in any capacity.
They managed to fix Carmela after ruining her. That's a dangerous game to play with the roster. Most people don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
This is very true. And not everyone benefits from a heel turn either. Not every gimmick or crowd reaction is going to translate from NXT to main-roster, but the key is to put the performers into positions where they at least have the chance to succeed. One of the reasons I like SDL so much better than Raw is that the production team seems to get that. They use who they have - AA being a glaring exception for whatever reason.
Carmella over lol
Yep. Here's another one for you to lol: she's more over than Bayley. And she's a better promo.
She doesn't get reaction Bayley does
I have no idea what show youre watching. Listen the next time both Bayley and Carmella makes entrances. There is legitimately silence every time her music hits, while Bayley gets a pop Everytime her music hits. Go to the network and watch any, literally any Carmella entrance from the past 3 months and literally any Bayley entrance from the last 3 months and tell me Carmella is more over. What a blatantly false statement.
Joe is lower. Outside of last night he had almost no reaction each week
Faces
Whoops
Kalisto: Lower
Crews: Lower
Austin Aries: About the same
Emma: way lower
Dana: way way lower
Aiden English: way way way lower
Simon Gotch: M.I.A.
Ascension: low low
Wyatts: all lower
Carmella: lower (since she's alone)
Some people also just don't work as well on the main roster, just like some people are better adapted for NXT. Different match booking is one factor (both in terms of how wrestlers are pushed and how their matches are structured), but I think that some wrestlers are simply better suited for the smaller house too.
Too early to say for Nakamura and Tye imo, everything else is spot on.
Sadly, I would argue that Sami is way lower as well.
EDIT: Also, it's pretty hard to say that Enzo and Cass are more over now. They were over as hell in NXT.
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Faces who are more over
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Looking at your list I'm not really surprised. Enzo/Cass, Breeze, and Mojo were never meant to be super over top acts on the main roster. Sasha wasn't over as a face in NXT, so it's very hard to compare. Nakamura and Tye are still so early I think it's hard to even say Nakamura is lower yet. Sami Zayn was THE GUY in NXT, so unless he was Cena/Styles level on the main roster he would be lower by default. The only ones that are surprising really are AA and Bayley, but I think most people had this concern for Bayley before she was even called up.
Also though I agree with Balor for same I think the last few weeks has cemented him as a superstar who will stay over
All the one's that have cooled significantly, notably Bayley and AA. You know what the problem was, they had no point once they got to main, their story had been told so much in NXT it was hard to invent new stuff to do with them.
AA is a duo of bland all American baby faces, thier boring beyond belief, had zero promos and were just straight up lame. Their hook in NXT was that they were a team that took convincing to put together but once they did they were great, on the main roster they were just two happy guys. I don't even know what you could have done to save those two from themselves.
Bayley has been burned by poor writing but you can't put it all on creative she hasn't helped herself that much either, the greats like Cena could take poor stuff and make it decent, Bayley is taking poor content and doing nothing with it.
The blame can't go entirely on the Main roster, some of the blame has to be placed on NXT for over exposing the new talent to some extent, back when development was mostly faceless people came to main and were totally fresh, no preconceived notions, but now that NXT is essentially it's own brand no one comes to main fresh and new, people have notions of what they want from them and declare them dead if expectations aren't met on arrival.
It's hard to see new stuff with Bayley because frankly she peaked with that match against Sasha and that was so huge living up to it's level constantly just isn't possible.
Basically I feel like NXT is resulting in a lot of talent being over exposed and peaking was to early in their careers.
Big E and Xavier Woods are waaay higher than they were in NXT
But look how long and through how many hoops it took them both to get to that point?
What does that have to do with them being more over on the main roster?
OP said Vince cools them off, seemingly intentionally. I don't think you can use E and X as evidence against OP when they both were used horribly to begin with until they were able to get themselves over, which took a very long time.
Who gave them the green light to do it though? Vince
Is this supposed to include pre-Network NXT? I thought access to NXT and familiarity with that product completely changed when the Network became a thing, and I think at that point both those guys were up. The first title feud I recall from NXT as someone that got the Network pretty close to launch was Neville vs Dallas, with Breeze, Zayn and Kidd contributing to the upper-mid-card, IIRC.
He later said if they were in the they don't count. But then again Tyler breeze wouldn't count then.
Not as many really watched NXT back then.