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Why do pitch envelopes sound so bad in Bitwig?

Why can't you create good sounding pitch envelopes in Bitwig using the built in modulators? Modulating the pitch of a plugin with the ADSR modulator set to a really short decay sounds horrible, almost like the envelope is too slow to keep up.

Here's an audio example using Synthmaster. First half is Synthmasters own envelope on the pitch and second half is using Bitwigs ADSR modulator on the same pitch parameter. Bitwigs envelopes totally craps out whenever you use short decay times and that's slightly concerning; https://clyp.it/uhao4wbs

Posted Jul 15, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC · edited

922
bugeats soundcloud.com/insidepeople •

I've been using the new modulators a lot with actually CV output. I'm starting to suspect that the modulator signal is heavily smoothed. Hard edges are softened, and fast changes are blurred. I have yet to figure out how to get a true hard trig signal, for example.

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BackrOP•

Yeah, it's a shame. I haven't seen anyone else complain about this so I'm not too optimistic about them fixing it.

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zwpskr•

Dont use the hw cv device, the slew cant be disabled. Use a dc followed by a hw fx instead.

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bugeats soundcloud.com/insidepeople •

What do you mean "use a dc"?

Also, I wasn't sure if I was just imagining the slew or not. Were you able to confirm this?

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zwpskr•

Bitwig's dc device.
Just ran some test but everything triggered fine no matter what i used (when set to the fastest attack). The slew doesn't seem to matter, i can see no difference in the onsets. So scrap my previous comment, only advantage with using dc+hw fx is that you can offset the timing.
Interesting though, the 4-stage modulator on a cv device yields a sharper edge than the gate of the cv instrument device

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bugeats soundcloud.com/insidepeople •

only advantage with using dc+hw fx is that you can offset the timing.

Hot. Great tip. I used to do this all the time in Ableton.

Global per-track timing offset is my #1 pet feature request. I've tried 5 different ways to get the attention of Bitwig devs, only to have the feature actively dismissed. They would rather you move events directly in the timeline.

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blackoctopussound•

I have noticed this and set this in to support. I recorded a close up of the spectrum and found out that modulating the pitch envelope actually creates a series of steps instead of a smooth movement. They are aware of the issue and I hope they fix it soon.

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BackrOP•

Great man, I hope so too!

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maplesyrupismajestic•

I don't have an answer to this but am wondering out of curiosity what are the specific params you're using.

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BackrOP•

On this audio example I just modulated the pitch parameter in the synth. But anything you modulate with a short decay sounds like trash. :(

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aufstand•

How did you construct that?

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BackrOP•

Just an ADSR mod connected to the pitch parameter on the synth; https://prnt.sc/fwd1t9

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justajunior•

Your link leads to a 404?

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BackrOP•

Ah, Clyp only stored it for 24 hours; https://instaud.io/16d0

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Joxer96•

I gave it a try myself and think I know why you can't duplicate the sound. First, the ADSR's envelope is linear. You need an exponential envelope to get that snappy sound. Secondly, the pitch modulation range is too narrow. A bit of a bummer, hopefully the envelopes get updated.

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BackrOP•

Yeah, that's definitely a part of the reason. Still in my audio example you can hear the Bitwig version jumping up and down in volume, so there's something else going on too.

I really hope they fix this and add a small window like in Polysynths filter section where you can adjust the envelope curve.

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zwpskr•

Vst parameters get their data chopped at the size of your audio buffer, that might be the problem here.

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BackrOP•

Problem is plugins like Volumeshaper sound perfect so it seems like the problem is only with Bitwigs envelopes. But I'll look in to it.

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zwpskr•

Volume shaper doesnt control another vst does it?

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BackrOP•

No, but if I draw an envelope in Volumeshaper to only play the first milliseconds/transient of the sound it sounds like it should. Now if you take a Tool and turn it down all the way, then modulate it with an ADSR Mod to replicate the effect then it sounds very inconsistent and weird. I'd like to use it as a transient shaper on midi material but can't with the way it is atm.

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zwpskr•

Ah ok, will investigate. Just a heads up though, midi ccs are even slower/choppier than automation via vst.

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