Banned from /r/sf and called alt-right for sharing a non political video against circumcision

I received this message from a banned commenter. Here is the message in its entirety:

from JohnKimble111 sent 1 day ago Hi, Thanks for standing up for free speech and supporting my right to contribute to Reddit. FYI I'm now banned from r/sanfrancisco for posting that video, even though it's completely unrelated to any sort of left or right wing politics and simply opposing genital mutilation. There's even a standard ban message accusing me of being "alt right". Here it is in case you haven't seen it, perhaps you'd like to share it on the sub? Here it is: You have been banned from participating in r/sanfrancisco. You can still view and subscribe to r/sanfrancisco, but you won't be able to post or comment. Note from the moderators: Alt-right

Alt-right supporters, users, comments, links, etc. are not welcome in r/sanfrancisco, and any association with the Alt-right, whether directly or indirectly, is impermissible.

r/sanfrancisco agrees with the positions of the following sources with respect to the definition of the Alt-right:

What the Alt-Right Really Means (New York Times)

Associated Press Statement

AP Style Guide on the ‘Alt-Right’

If you disagree with the opinions of the above sources, please debate and discuss elsewhere on reddit. If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for r/sanfrancisco by replying to this message. Reminder from the Reddit staff: If you use another account to circumvent this subreddit ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole.

I can't say I agree with the position to ban this commenter, and the reasoning that the post is alt-right seems ridiculous. Thoughts?

Posted Aug 30, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

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drthunderlovejr•9 yr. ago

This poster is going to end up doing a press conference from r/pacifica after being to scared to post in r/sanfrancisco, then get mad when he incites violence in r/berkley

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

;)

4152510•9 yr. ago

I am perfectly comfortable accepting conservative views in this subreddit, even if that's contrary to the general political consensus of San Francisco as a city.

But the alt-right is by most definitions a branch of conservatism that's rooted in white nationalism and discrimination.

I don't have an issue with mods keeping those views out of the subreddit.

This is a subreddit, not a government forum for speech. The first amendment does not apply here, and allowing people, often not even from San Francisco, to come in here and espouse hateful views, can easily result in suppression of other viewpoints. People will disengage from the subreddit if they perceive it as a haven for hate and discrimination, and that will suppress speech in another way. Sometimes to foster healthy, productive discussion, you must suppress fringe views.

edit: I'm skeptical the referenced video is as innocent as it's made out to be, too.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

How is anti-circumcision rooted in white nationalism and discrimination?

I'm not saying we should allow racist speech on this sub, even for discussion (though I am also not sure pushing it underground helps to get rid of it,) and am not advocating anyone come here and say racist things.

But a discussion of circumcision?

midflinx•9 yr. ago

Why did the video belong in this sub? What's the San Francisco connection?

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

It was a video of a protest in San francisco: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/6wmxzp/intactivists_reveal_truth_at_sf_pride_festival/dmc65un/?context=3

sugarwax1•9 yr. ago

Having a thought while in SF doesn't make it SF related.

It's the difference between protesting abortion in SF and trying to discuss abortion, and say, talking about an abortion clinic in SF that was protested. Your thoughts on 9-11, circumcision, and many other pet topics, aren't SF topics, and they have more appropriate subs.

juaquin•9 yr. ago

Looking that over - yes, the content was a video.

The title, and purpose of posting it, was clearly politically influenced and had little to do with San Francisco other than the video being taken here.

I don't have a problem with it being removed.

Mulsanne•9 yr. ago

In that thread, you say:

Again, stop accusing everyone you don't agree with as being from r/T_D. Make an effort for good conversation.

Well how about people who are very active submitting and commenting to r/T_D? Can we call them out or nah?

4152510•9 yr. ago

I don't have enough information to accept at face value that that's really all the video in question was about. Without seeing the video myself, I am left to either trust this account of what happened or to believe the mods made the right call. I'm more inclined to believe the latter.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

Sorry, I thought he had included the video link. Here's a link to the post, which has a link to the video: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/6wmxzp/intactivists_reveal_truth_at_sf_pride_festival/dmc65un/?context=3

4152510•9 yr. ago

Unfortunately I don't care enough about this to watch a 30 minute video, but at face value you're correct that I don't see anything there directly connecting to the alt-right.

Occupy_RULES6•9 yr. ago

I don't have an issue with mods keeping those views out of the subreddit.

Don't you understand that many people have been banned under the false accusation of being "alt-right?" People are finding Nazis where the are none. People are using this "alt-right" rule to eliminate non-leftist thinkers. I think we should all have a problem with that. SF is not one ideology.

4152510•9 yr. ago

You're the first person in this thread to use the word Nazi.

Occupy_RULES6•9 yr. ago

OK, then let me rephrase my question without "Nazi"

Don't you understand that many people have been banned under the false accusation of being "alt-right?" People are finding the "alt-right" where the are none. People are using this "alt-right" rule to eliminate non-leftist thinkers. I think we should all have a problem with that. SF is not one ideology.

2†

4152510•9 yr. ago

I take issue with over-use of the word "alt-right" and fear the term is being normalized. When you refer to all conservatives as "alt-right" you might be trying to deligitimize conservatives but what you actually wind up doing is legitimizing the alt-right by grouping them together with people who hold legitimate traditional conservative views and aren't racists.

I'm comfortable with assuming anyone who regularly contributes to r/T_D is actually alt-right, though.

Goodboyalex•9 yr. ago

Is being against genital mutilation alt-right now? I never got that memo.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

I get that we don't like r/T_D in this sub, but shouldn't we be fostering a variety of viewpoints, so long as posters follow the rules?

hipstahsMission•9 yr. ago

I'm personally sick of the trolls from the donald. I've had several who take the time to make fake accounts to spout racist drivel on my account -- often in irrelevant subreddits. Many just make comments about how i need to go back to mexico, love burriots, calle24 is racist etc... Its pretty fucking annoying and says a lot about how these people really feel when not trying to be at least marginally politically correct on r/sanfrancisco.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

Calle24 is racist, though.

But the rest of that is nasty garbage. Sorry you have gone through that.

k240d•9 yr. ago

How is Calle24 racist? Are they redlining the mission or something?

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

They are trying to.

alfonso238•9 yr. ago

Calle24 is racist, though.

Thus continues the white supremacy and attempts to make the conversation noisier by accusing everybody else of being racist.

0†

onionmancer•9 yr. ago

the "no YOU'RE racist for pointing out structural racism" is the most tiresome thing the techno-libertarians do here

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

Both groups can be racist.

[deleted]•9 yr. ago

[deleted]

Forest-G-Nome•9 yr. ago

I've had left wing and right wing trolls on this sub do that to me.

If we are going to ban kids from the r/the_donald we should be banning kids from r/latestagecapitalism and r/esist too

hilberteffectSoMa•9 yr. ago

Looking through this user's comment history, it appears he regularly contributes to circlejerk-like and/or thinly veiled discriminatory subs like r/the_dawnald, r/mensrights, and r/pussypass with material such as Christian child forced into MUSLIM foster care & made to learn ARABIC (lol). He also makes posts in other "regular" subs like r/worldnews which are clearly meant to be inflammatory (example).

Yeah, I don't really see any evidence that this person was going to contribute to this community or "foster diverse perspectives." Mods made the right call. Thanks for preventing this place from turning into a Trumpist shithole. Since the Reddit admins refuse to do anything about their brigading, someone has to.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

While you may be right about him, I would have waited until he actually did something wrong on this sub.

Mulsanne•9 yr. ago

Do you have an itinerary of where you expect the goal posts to be and when? I want to make plans to get out on the road and follow the goalposts as they continue their tour.

GOALPOST TOUR 2017!

hilberteffectSoMa•9 yr. ago

Maybe he did. We only have the context he provided to you in the PM.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

I posted the link to his post here in this thread. He didn't.

hilberteffectSoMa•9 yr. ago

I meant elsewhere. Maybe he made other posts which were deleted.

Gootmud•9 yr. ago

Thanks for preventing this place from turning into a Trumpist shithole.

Yeah, it's right on the brink, isn't it?

sophotrope•9 yr. ago

Alt-right supporters, users, comments, links, etc. are not welcome in r/sanfrancisco, and any association with the Alt-right, whether directly or indirectly, is impermissible.

Wow, this is in the Posting Guidelines now with links to other articles elsewhere which promise to tell you what "alt-right" means.

(Information about Female Genital Mutiliation and its political implications doesn't seem particularly relevant to San Francisco in the first place, so it wouldn't need to be labeled, stereotyped & run out of town on a rail like that.)

PooTwonya•9 yr. ago

Tell that to the 13 yr old girl that is going to visit her family in Sudan next summer.

onionmancer•9 yr. ago

FGM happens in the states all the time.

[deleted]•9 yr. ago

[deleted]

white-hispanic•9 yr. ago

Wtf

PooTwonya•9 yr. ago

I wish I had been given a choice before a part of my body got whacked off in some silly allegiance to a crappy comic book character.

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

Dr. No Foreskin?

OmicronPerseiNothing•9 yr. ago

Wait, what!? How is being against genital mutilation an alt-right position? I'm against it, and I'm certainly NOT alt-right. I compost for god's sake!

kiwi-lime_PiBernal Heights•9 yr. ago

Not sure exactly what the alt-right connection is here. In 2011 this guy Lloyd Schofield tried to get SF to ban male circumcision, even for religious reasons. Perhaps some saw this as an anti-semetic tactic, but I don't really see any larger discussion about this in any searches related to these "intactivists". In addition, he does not seem to be linked to any other organizations that are anti-semetic. FWIW I've seen them at pride before and they generally have a pretty good sense of humor about their cause.

mrmagcore•9 yr. ago

Ah, the circumcision crazies. They are always fun. Here's some light reading: http://theweek.com/articles/484193/foreskin-man-proof-that-anticircumcision-activists-are-antisemitic

DoneAlreadyDoneOP•9 yr. ago

You really can't see both sides of this issue?

In the US, circumcision is hardly a Jewish-only issue. Something like 80-90% of baby boys in the US are circumcised.

spacehogg•9 yr. ago

Yeah, intactivists would be pretty funny, were it not for all the people that take them seriously. Banning circumcision is a horrible idea since if anything, it's sometimes used to fix real medical issues.

fran1101•9 yr. ago

Residents in nursing homes and hospitals are sometimes circumcised due to caregivers who have no idea what to do with foreskin. Especially young caregivers; they will pull the foreskin back and leave it thinking that's what it should look like, and then the next day the patients penis is buried in phimosis. Give it another day or less and several other problems sprout.

peachsquirt•9 yr. ago

I agree. I personally don't agree with circumcision and I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Clinton in the general election. Fighting against circumcision has nothing to do with anti-semitism.