Georgia Tech Police Shooting
liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1505622631
liveleak.comPosted Sep 18, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC
2862
liveleak.comHis idiot parents are threatening to sue the cops.
Pretty clear where his problems started.
27
Seriously, his parents are grieving. Grieving people aren't always rational.
19
Pretty sure raising a sucidal tranny while calling said dead tranny a "son" instead of what they want isn't rational either.
I'm voting for these people have always been fucking stupid.
-6†
They are dead. I am sorry for them.
11
The majority of these videos are obviously suicide by cop but you still have the retards who need to comment "hurr durr play stupid games win stupid prizes derp"
Like every fucking time
24
Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. This freak's death is no great loss
5
That line is getting really old
4
Guy in the video died, left behind suicide notes, making this an apparent suicide by cops: http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-student-killed/index.html
18
Ex-Military police here and usually pro law enforcement , but after watching this video, I don't think I would have shot him. He wasn't charging nor imposing an immediate threat. He was advancing at a slow pace and the police could have retreated at the same pace safely. Just a little patients and a non lethal bean bag shot could have saved this man's life, hell I could took him out with a batton. Just better training for these police officers, fear is what generally leads to poor decisions. JMO
11
I definitely see where you are coming from. It seems you are coming from a very rational point of view. But the officers with dealing with rational behavior from the suspect.
In the video, a bit before they shot, he did charge at the officer on the right, and was rather quick in his pace. But he did stop. Usually he stopped quick after moving. But the last time, it looked to me he was walking forward with more determination. Not quick or aggressive in his movements, but still looking like he wasn't going to stop quickly as before.
As well as the fact that both you and I are reacting to a video, possibly watched a few times (as I did). We don't have that adrenaline rushing through our veins and our lives aren't potentially in danger as we assess the situation.
So was that the absolute objectively 100% correct thing to do in that situation? Definitely debatable.
Was the officer wrong in her actions? I would say no. Her actions were justified I would say. And when you bring in the backstory of the suspect, with multiple suicide notes in his room and previous suicide attempts, I would say this was a case of suicide by cop.
Edit: wow I knew I was a ways deep on this sub, but I didn't realize I was almost a month deep. Wow
1
Good reply, the point that stuck out was drawing conclusions from a video clip. Very true, not sure what happen before the video.
1
My opinion is that you're not ex military.
"just keep retreating backwards while he comes forwards, and hope he doesn't charge faster than you can step backwards. Btw if you trip or bump into something you're just fucked."
-6
Well your opinion sucks. US Navy 99-05 stationed in Yokosuka.
9
Honest question since I'm not trained: why not use a taser?
10
From a comment in another thread:
Tasers aren't the non-lethal cure-all they're made out to be. They have a range of about 20 feet, which can be closed by an attacker in a little over a second. The officer can miss with the taser, a terminal can bounce, some people can withstand it, and that doesn't leave you enough time for a follow-up solution.
A second/second and a half isn't enough to fire the taser, assess that it wasn't effective, drop the taser, draw your gun, and stop someone before they stab you. Even if GTPD had tasers, it probably wouldn't have been appropriate here. For this reason, police are trained to meet deadly force with deadly force. The taser is there to prevent getting into a fist fight, not to stop someone with a lethal weapon.
The officer fired in self-defense, which isn't about whether or not the guy with the knife deserved to die. It's about whether or not he posed a credible and immediate threat to someone else's life. And he did.
Also, here's an alternate angle
28
Honest question here, how is it that other countries are able to, AFAIK, deal with people with knives without having guns?
6
I saw a video on reddit a few months back that showed UK police trying to subdue a man with a knife. Everyone was talking about how great it was and I was just looking at it, baffled. The only reason the cops werent stabbed repeatedly is because the guy with the knife basically decided not to stab them. In the video they are just backing up, letting the man control the entire confrontation, and swinging wildly with batons and spray. Luckily the cop whaps him a few times before the guy gives up (seems he didnt actually want to do harm)
15
There's another famous video out there of a crazy guy with a knife, surrounded by 4 officers, and it really drove home the point people always make about a person with a knife being able to close a 20 ft gap and stab you before you even have a chance to react. I never really bought that until I saw this video. But sure enough, they spend a few minutes circling the guy, trying to calm him down, refusing to draw weapons. At one point the guy just decides it's go-time, and before you can even blink he's on top of one of the officers and has stabbed him in the heart, of course killing him.
10
there's really no solid proof that they are. Most of the videos I've seen show them using similar tactics like tasers and beanbags or overwhelming the attacker with numbers which is honestly pretty stupid. And they definitely do use guns when it's necessary. Also, wasn't there recently a string of fatal stabbings in the UK and Europe?
11
Tasers are not always effective unfortunately. There's a lot of factors that go into if the taser will work or not. If the spread of the probes is not large enough it will not lock up the major muscle groups. A small spread is essentially a drive stun which hurts but won't physically stop someone's movement. I've seen an individual take as much as three different taser shots before one was effective. First one missed and He was able to pull the probes out of his skin from the second shot due to the spread being too small. Also I have seen two instances where the taser cartridges failed to fire.
10
It ends up GATech police are not trained to use tasers and therefore can't use tasers.
That was my first thought as well.
3
Most university police departments actually don't have tasers, I have a buddy who works at a local university, they are considered "too scary" by the student body and upper administration.
A less lethal device..... is too scary.
That being said, they have relatively low effectiveness anyways.
2
I think the logic behind that is a cop will be extremely unlikely to use a firearm but might be more likely to pull out a taser in a situation where it isn't called for
0
I can tell you with good certainty that is not why most places do not have them. You are sorta in the right vein, it's unlikely any campus cop will ever need any of their weapons when dealing with students. So it's mostly a dead issue unless we are talking inner-city schools, where more options in the less lethal department is pointedly more valuable.
The much bigger issues are that they are just largely ineffective, much less so than OC spray or a baton. Departments across the country are actually dropping tasers as tech left and right. And second, politically, they are a tough sell on any campus. Getting kevlar vests can be a challenging enough, even with what happened to the MIT cop in the Boston Bombings being fresh in everyone's minds, it was a HUGE to-do getting them approved.
1
Because tasers fail all the time. I've got a running list of failed taser vids if you're curious, but they fail, and it really sucks to be holding a piece of plastic when a guy with a knife is coming to kill you.
2
They won't use them until they really, 100% work. When they're like the stun setting in Star Trek.
Whoever can invent that will be very rich.
1
Or shoot him in the legs? Let him live in prison as a cripple, can't get much worse than that.
-15
Or shoot him in the legs?
every person who has ever tried to aim and fire a handgun just facepalmed
Pistols are hard as fuck to shoot accurately. I'm not kidding. Go to your local gun range. Rent a Glock 17 or Glock 19 (ultra common police carry weapons). Put your target out about 5-7 yards. Fire the weapon. Congrats, you just realized how insanely difficult it is to hit a torso sized target at 15 feet, stationary, with no stress or adrenaline weighing on you.
Now you know why cops (or anyone really) don't shoot to wound
19
Huh, shows what I know. Handguns have been banned here for a long time so no chance to give one a try.
1
Pistols are hard as fuck to shoot accurately.
At shooting range distances, yeah. But at "guy with a closed multitool walking slowly towards me while I yell at him" distance, we're talking less than half as far away as that little paper target. I'm pretty sure that at 15 feet you can hit his lower extremities. They're just set to kill when they shoot because American cop.
They carry police-quality pepper spray, tasers, and billy clubs, but a closed multitool shows up and it's straight for the gun because American cop.
-8
The university police were not issued tasers at that department. The call came out as a individual with a multi tool and possibly a gun. 15 feet turns to nothing incredibly quick in these situations. You never know when that slow walk toward you will turn into a full sprint. Tasers are not always effective and Pepper spray (depending on the brand) takes time to work. You can be sprayed and finish an entire obstacle course before it starts to hurt and interfere with your vision. Remember that oc spray is purely pain compliance. If someone is mad enough or determined enough, oc spray will have little to no effect.
11
No, you don't understand. Shooting range distance for a handgun is like 10-20 feet. Hitting a leg sized target at that distance is extremely difficult. Trust me. I regularly shoot my carry pistol at 7 yards (21 feet) and try to group my shots within two inches of each other. I cannot do this consistently (I'm pretty good, but yeah, that's at a range). A moving extremity is not a viable target. There's a reason police don't aim at the head, either. Same problem. It's too small of a target and it moves. Every police instructor and conceal carry instructor teaches the same. Shoot center mass until the threat is stopped. That's it. Why? Because center mass is the largest viable target. And it's still hard to hit even at short range. A projectile out of a four inch barrel at 750+ mph means even the slightest twitch, tremor, jerk, sigh, anything can make your shot miss. Top that off with adrenaline, fear, fight or flight, etc.... and all that adds up to is "you can't shoot a leg, arm, hand, or head at will." It's essentially impossible.
As for tasers and spray, you and I both know those are a gamble and come with their own sets of risky variables, chief of which is that they just plain aren't effective against some people, especially people on drugs.
It all boils down to how much a cop is willing to gamble their own life. Do they gamble that the pepper spray will be enough, or the taser, or the club, or the gun? There's an obvious choice.
In this video the police give the guy every opportunity to drop his weapon and give up. He chooses not to. Pretty simple. Police will not walk up to a man with a knife and risk being killed when they can stop the thread effectively from a distance. This is simple logic.
7
Also add outside influences to the equation. Served in the military, big difference shooting a target at a range under controlled environment. Everything changes in real world scenarios, try shooting a gun with your heart beating out of your chest. Every bit of training I received stated if you draw your weapon then it should be considered lethal force and aim center mass. If the situation was deemed non life threatening then don't draw your weapon. We carried a baton for these situations. We were trained to strike at the knees and chest, going for the head was a no no, because this would more than likely kill. Police should carry night sticks again IMO.
3
I mean, shooting someone in the leg can easily be lethal, too, since, you know, you've got that big ass femoral artery running right through it.
That being said, I don't think gunfire was necessary at all in this situation.
2
Selfish prick. Jump in front of a train if you want to kill yourself. I hope the cop isn't traumatised.
3
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-3†
So this is why cars are being burned and police officers are being attacked at Georgia Tech? wow
2
The justice to this would be for the school to identify the agitators, students or otherwise and press charges.
2
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1
Just for the record these scumbags burning down police vehicles and rioting against police or a bunch of dick heads from out of town
1
wrong sub
1
Why in the fuck don't those cops have less than lethal at their disposal? Apparently GA Tech cops don't carry Tasers. What??
-1
Most university police departments don't, reason being for the one my friend works at is that they are considered "too threatening/ scary"..... regardless tasers have time and again show to be rather unreliable.
Further, if he had a knife, knife= lethal force. Police trump that force with a firearm, also lethal force.
1
I hear you, and I have no problem with police defending themselves. However the shooting in question appears to be a case where de-escalation may have prevented the killing of a mentally ill person.
0
They did try deescalation though.... I'm not sure how you missed the first half of the video. The deescalation didn't work. I heard them command him to drop the knife multiple times, even saying once or twice something to the effect of "come on man, what's wrong, what's up". He kept advancing towards one of the officers with a weapon in his hand. He was asking for it and he got it. They gave him plenty of time and who knows how long before recording started.
It's sad circumstances, but how people find blame in the cops who responded to the situation to help him, but were also the only people put directly in the path of someone who had very little regard for his own or anyone else's life- is beyond me.
0
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-6
Guy in the video died, left behind suicide notes, making this an apparent suicide by cops: http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-student-killed/index.html
4
What makes you think that?
3
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1†
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
-12
This is suicide not justice
Damn straight. Scout (that's the name of the person who had the multitool which was closed by the way) called the cops himself. In their room was found multiple suicide notes. And they also tried to kill themselves two years ago.