Source
r/F13thegame•
Noremac64

Balancing Jason's Grab

DISCUSSION

As a community what/if there are balance changes to Jason's grab what would you like to see?

Personally I would like to see one of these two choices implemented

  1. Either a 15 second cooldown after a failed grab, 30 or so on a successful kill.

  2. Jason can grab as normal but change it so he can only instant kill an injured or panicking counselor, environmental kills I think should work as they are now.

EDIT: I agree 15 is too long of a cool down especially with how wonky the hitboxes can be. Would a 7 second cooldown be more reasonable?

Posted Sep 29, 2017, 5:12 PM UTC · edited

048
True_Boredom•

Nerf Jason's grab by giving it the same range and Speed of his Melee attack.

11
lifeisxo•

his melee speed is instant and spammable, that'd barely be any change from his current grab.

2
True_Boredom•

His grab is faster than his Melee attack., and has twice the range. Watch Pappus' video analysis of game mechanics pls.

7
True_Boredom•

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZAKpkYhGDg

Skip to 13:25 to see his breakdown of Jason's melee/grab.

7
lifeisxo•

Thanks. That was really informative.

5
NoncanonRan•

15 seconds is way too long of a cooldown. #2 I am okay with, but I think the game would be fine if they just made every grab kill have the same start up time, far less people would rely on choke if everything was equal.

10
justincorrect•

I'm not sure what you mean by "start up time." I thought that the kill animations were available based on Jason's surroundings, like, you need more space for certain animations.

5
NoncanonRan•

You haven't noticed that some grab kills are available sooner than others? Choke is available the fastest so most people just use that.

3
Naybinns•

Pretty sure that it is based on the room around you. Choke requires basically no room so it’s available almost instantly, whereas other grabs require more room which makes it harder for Jason to instantly kill upon grabbing someone.

6
NoncanonRan•

Honestly I have no clue what affects it, but I still think it is worth looking into. I've also noticed that choke is available faster even in open areas so I'm still not entirely sure it has to do with just the room around him.

1
justincorrect•

Right, but I don't think it's a time-based thing, more that the things like a choke animation requires a smaller footprint, so it's available most frequently.

4
DemiHeliosDemiHelios•

2 would be acceptable with some adjustment: grab would no longer initiate the button press with high enough composure (no fear) instead it would automatically increase your fear and decrease your stamina unless you have a pocket knife

Aka you would get a free escape without the pocket knife but your fear would ramp up and your stamina would’ve dropped due to being strangled (this only being the case if you’re lacking fear or injury)

This would give more relevance to Jenny who has enough composure to take a grab like this and run away

However, I’m afraid any adjustments would break the game. It’s finally in a decent place except for the luck fiasco.

4
BGFNCY•

No. No nerfing Jason. He's a fucking animal....let him act like one.

3
coolpizzacook•

You right. He's an animal. That's why he uses traps and weapons. So let's get rid of his traps and weapons, shit why would he even bother wearing clothes? Get rid of those too, might as well toss the mask too.

That's a bad comparison. Unless you can tell me an animal that does all those things while having psychic powers?

All I want is his fucking animation to match up to the hitbox.

1
BGFNCY•

You already agreed with me that he's an animal, why do I need to explain any further? :)

1
coolpizzacook•

Alright, so go convince Gun to strip Jason naked and use only his hands.

0
BGFNCY•

No. Jason is fine the way he is. I'm not the one crying about nerfing him.

1
Truck-RockpecTruckRockpec•

I don't want anything changed. Jason should be going five/six for seven on an routine basis.

3
coolpizzacook•

So you think the fact his grab hitbox doesn't match up to his animation is good?

1
Truck-RockpecTruckRockpec•

I've gotten a feel for where his grab hurtbox is, and can often bait him into a grab and punish when he whiffs.

Most of the animation is cool-down, once you realize when that starts and the shape of the hurtbox (it's a rectangle, extending ~1.5 counselor lengths in front of him), bullying Jason gets a lot easier.

2
coolpizzacook•

That doesn't change the fact it doesn't match up to his animation.

1
Truck-RockpecTruckRockpec•

So what? Learn how it works and adapt accordingly. You need to do this whether the hurtbox changes or not.

2
almapaprika199•

at most i would put a lil delay after a failed grab like in dead by daylight so he cant just spam it brianlessly

3
McCree_Is_My_BabySTOP USING PART 8•

I love grabbing

brianlessly

1
almapaprika199•

me too :p but gotta admit spamming grab near a counselor is just way too ez :D

2
KopiTheKittenJenny Higgins•

For your second balance, I think that’s a great idea. A calmer or healthier counselor should give Jason a small cooldown as to when he can initiate his execution. By small, I’m talking 2-5 seconds (this would vary depending on fear level and health). This can give counselors an opportunity to mash the escape button, or have someone help them out. The balance would provide composure with an actual use also; Jason would have to actually slash at composed counselors to injure them if he wants an easy execution.

A failed grab should cause the next grab to have a cooldown, probably 5 seconds or so.

Also, perhaps only environmental kills can happen instantly if he grabs a counselor near one. This would give them more purpose other than looking cool.

3
coolpizzacook•

I agree with most of your decisions. The only one I disagree about is the environmental kills being instant IF they ignore pocket knives. The knives are meant to be a guaranteed escape at least.

2
KopiTheKittenJenny Higgins•

No they wouldn’t ignore pocket knives. Pocket knife should always be an escape.

3
coolpizzacook•

In that case, this would be a well done balance act... and make Jenny more useful.

2
Mr_Voreez•

My thoughts: Give grab the same range and speed as melee attack, or slightly less.

Put 1 second delay after successful grab before kills can be activated.

Escaping Jason's grab consumes counselor stamina based on grip strength:

Weak Grip: 15% stamina loss

Normal Grip: 25% stamina loss

Strong Grip: 35% Stamina loss

The addition of losing stamina after breaking out of a grab would mitigate the "nerf" so to speak of making the grab shorter and slower without it feeling cheap like the original system.

2
ehsteve12•

15 seconds is way too long. Just 5 is plenty. No cooldown on successful.

1
Noremac64OP•

15 does seem a bit extreme in hindsight but I feel like 5 would make it still a bit too easily spammed, maybe 7ish seconds something to stop the grab spam though.

How do you feel about the second option where the face button kills only work on an injured counselor?

0
justincorrect•

Jesus, no. Neither is a good solution.

My thinking? Tweak things like head punches and chokes so that the animations take another second or two. None of this tryhard shit. Put Kane back in the golf ball suit.

1
Srgtgunnr•

Okay. Time to M1 spam part 3 since grab us too overpowered somehow.

1