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r/DungeonMasters•
dreckmal

How many High Level Casters in your world?

If the Player's Handbook represented the typical campaign world (it doesn't because everyone's campaign world is different, but let's pretend... heh) how many extreme high end casters (18th-20th level) would there be?

I find myself wondering, mostly because it will have vast effects on economy, power, and hierarchies.

I mostly have to credit the guys over at Web DM for making me wonder what it would be like if True Resurrection was a real thing that could happen. If 9th level spell casting is ubiquitous, then parents could just have their children rezzed if/when horrible things happen (as a for instance).

Wish could drastically change the landscape, politically and geographically.

Being able to cast Meteor Storm would make most high level wizards practically unassailable. I'm super interested to hear your guys' thoughts on all this, but I'm mostly interested in how many high end casters your guys have in your settings, and how you arrived at those numbers.

Thanks y'all!

Posted Nov 13, 2017, 6:24 PM UTC

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Pomegranate_of_Pain•

Casting true resurrection costs 25,000 gp though. Regular resurrection (7th level) is something that would be worth bearing in mind in a major city. The material components cost 1,000 gold which is.. what? 4 years of income from a skilled worker? Definitely something to bear in mind but not many can afford it. I would think nobles/wealthy merchants might have it as a realistic option in the event of a murder/accident.

[Math for those interested: Skilled labourer costs 2gp/day. Modest lifestyle is 1gp/day. So they make 1gp/day after expenses. Your calendar may vary but I figured ~250 workdays a year]

18th+ level casters though? Maaaaybe 10 in the whole world, but likely less? Including BBEGs though. If they were interested in politics they would be a head of state. A lich is an 18th level caster. I think Ancient Dragons would have qualified in editions when they were still casters. I think most casters at that level are less interested in what's going on in the material plane and more concerned with the other planes though. An 18th level caster can create 25,000 gp /day with the Wish spell. I don't think you would really be involved in the economy at that point, what would be the purpose? You'd be chasing immortality or trying to involve yourself in inter-planar politics.

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dreckmalOP•

I totally get what you are saying, and I agree in large part. In a lot of ways, it felt like an interesting thought experiment.

Thanks for your input!

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LID919•

My world is higher magic than most, so I have a lot of casters in the 1-12 range. I don't have any level 17+ NPC casters however except for retired player characters. Reaching that level is so astronomically rare, that those who have will have done things to make the history books (e.g. survived a campaign)

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truecore•

A thought I had:

High level casters take years upon years to train, many wizard NPC's having had decades before attaining any significant high level, and such an enormous investment of time and resources is far too risky to commit to any trivial matters.

However, in the real world it would make sense to try to utilize these powerful characters to enhance less magical things, so that a bit of their power could be present anywhere without them being involved. Like an industrial revolution of magic. I imagine any high level caster would be put to work crafting magical items to enhance troops, and that Mages Guilds would be more like Artisans Guilds than anything else. Could you imagine an army where every soldier is given magic weapons, armor, and even wands with spells - a bit like guns with ammunition. A dozen mid-level casters could fit out an entire company of mercenaries over however many months, and the cost of the job would have the cost of magic items factored into it.

I think people think too flat about high level casters. Yes, they could easily turn the tide of a major battle, but just as easily you can lose 80 years of investment to one sneaky guy with a knife.

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dreckmalOP•

I'm picking up what you're throwing down. And that is definitely one of the thought trains I rode for a bit. This is exactly the kind of thought I was looking for.

I think the question is: what keeps these high level caster 'compliant' with which ever government they are attached to, or serve? Also, is there a way to 'farm' xp? Because generally that is what keeps 'magic item factories' at bay.

I heard once that Eberron was essentially based on the idea of taking the magic of D&D seriously. The same has been said of Dark Sun.

Like, what is the true fallout of the magic in the PHB by itself, let alone with the inclusion of magic items from the DMG.

I think it's a fascinating topic.

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truecore•

I don't like using "xp" mechanics, because technically a goblin still provides xp, and if you try to wall people by "xp" you lead to awkward situations where they'll create goblin reproduction farms and mass execute all the male goblins. One might argue that completing a magic item and delivering it is finishing a job and grants xp. If xp is a currency that the lord is giving the mage-artisan, then perhaps that explains why soldiers that fight in wars and do all the killing remain perpetually low level.

As for the high level caster being compliant - he could be the Lord himself, and in a magocracy everyone underneath him is kept more compliant. Or he's working for money or favors, like anyone else - what keeps a high level caster from toppling a government and making himself dictator, anyways? I feel any world with high level casters is automatically high fantasy, and so this sort of government structure is probably more common.

I agree, the repercussions of magic in the PHB are interesting. Most people consider D&D societies to be Feudal, as if the society evolved without the influence of magic. But when did the magic first get discovered? Did the man who discovered fire cast a spell, or find a stick that was already on fire? Do people even need a wheel when you have mage hand? I like to brainstorm how society would have changed if there had been magic from square one - as a civilization/species what challenges would we have faced then, versus the ones we faced without magic?

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