Pn6 has been banned for posting repeated articles against the spirit of equality. If he changes his behavior I will glad let him back. Thank you.
Posted Jan 10, 2009, 10:30 PM UTC
2070
I have seen numerous recent articles from pn6 posted to this subreddit that were completely relevant to the topic of egalitarianism, and didn't notice any that weren't.
This is ideological cleansing, not egalitarianism.
18
I just noticed that there is exactly one moderator to this subreddit, how.....egalitarian.
15
That's because he's quickly downvoted and individual posts/URL's can be banned. Sometimes it can be efficicient. I check the new page every day, as well as /women/, /freethought/, /hrw/, and /feminisms/. I moderate /medicine/ too.
On new years, pn6 posted a self thread with a title that said "global warming is caused by feminists' hot air." And he didn't comment inside the thread, either. it stayed empty.
He frequently posts things, that are quickly eliminated, that bash women and/or feminists with quotemining, lies, and cherrypicking. It's just that I am on top of them and dryice probably is too.
-6
Who's imposing who's values on who here? pn6 isn't silencing you, you're silencing pn6.
11
Exactly. Aerik is no better than pn6; in fact, pn6 doesn't claim to be fair, so that puts him slightly ahead of the "more righteous than you" bunch.
4
The sheer fact that he was banned has prompted me to unsubscribe from this sub-reddit.
I'm sorry, there was some great stuff in here, but I cannot be part of this group if we are banning people because of what they perceive are pressing issues (which, MR is a pressing issue) views.
Even if he was "wrong"(which I do not believe) from your point of view, part of tolerance is tolerating other peoples intolerance.
EDIT: After reading that you posted that you banned him in other subreddits merely pushes forward the idea that this is inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory. Here is someone who has passion. Honest to God passion for equality for a certain group. Someone who reads about it constantly, someone who believes in it. And you shut him out? And as if that was not good enough for you, you try and brag about it? As is, for some stupid reason, you think people in lgbt and feminisms would somehow rally behind you and run this guy out on the rails? What is wrong with you?
I will never come back now. Dryice, you should be ashamed of yourself.
13
Over in the (significantly larger) anarchism subreddit we've been fine with no bans at all. I say, unban this guy and let the community decide.
It looks like dryice has some ego issues... he's bragging on both the lgbt and femenism subreddits.
12
So did I(except I looked through EVERY SINGLE THING he's ever said in this subreddit, including google cache for the past two months! and found nothing to substantiate dryice's claims, except for pn6's obvious troll/joke post here).
This cannot be considered an "open forum" nor a reddit about being "egalitarian" with a moderator like this.
5
You should also unsubscribe from mensrights, then; pn6 banned me for a handful of feminist submissions and a few sarcastic remarks.
(FWIW, I agree ph6 shouldn't be banned here, though I think he's a fanatic.)
4
He did say he wasn't going to ban or over moderate it but then he took a lot of abuse from everyone and as we both know abuse makes people emotional.
Have you even asked him to unban you? I mean in a nice way.
1
It's up to him. He dislikes me; I dislike him, but if the situation were reversed I would not have banned him.
2
If you do not ask them you consent by acquiescence.
As for like and dislikes, I dont' think pn6 is stupid enough to thik that a few words on a screen amount to an understanding of you. He may dilsike what you have said or done, but he most certainly is not under illusion that this is all you're are.
You can not truly claim if the situation were reversed because I think you're perhaps not fully aware of the situation.
But you can always just ask nicely. Infact if you'd like I'll ask him for you?
4
I think he was banned because he was posting repeated articles, not because dryice didn't like what he was saying. At least I hope that's the case.
0
Dryice, what is the purpose of posting to two other reddits the fact that you banned pn6, and that he posted to discuss it in another reddit?
http://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/7our1/i_finally_banned_pn6_from_egalitarian_subreddit/
http://www.reddit.com/r/feminisms/comments/7ounl/i_finally_banned_pn6_from_egalitarian_subreddit/
It only appears to be designed to produce drama and get people riled up.
I also pointed out in one of those posts that saying a man is "crying" is an implicitly sexist attack.
This is looking seriously high-schoolish at this point.
9
I also pointed out in one of those posts that saying a man is "crying" is an implicitly sexist attack.
You seem awfully sensitive for a guy who thinks it's funny to make jokes about a woman being stabbed to death: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/77udb/man_brutally_stabs_wife_to_death_reddit_responds/
-2
I'm definitely not a fan of pn6, and he really shouldn't spam egalitarian with stuff he's already posted on mensrights, but I don't think he should be banned.
Ironically, pn6 banned me from mensrights after a handful of submissions he didn't like and a few sarcastic comments; he's no doubt posted hundreds of times as many non-egalitarian things to egalitarian than I posted feminist things to mensrights.
And I don't think any of my submissions were quite as pointless as this one of his:
http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/7m3g7/this_just_in_feminist_hot_air_causes_global/
EDIT: A better way to deal with pn6 is for other people to post more submissions to Egalitarian.
7
Just curious, but might I just ask which ones were the reason why?
(>.>)
6
I am assuming that you are pn6 for a few reasons: Your previous comments supporting or making excuses for pn6. Assuming you are not, here is the reason in a nutshell.
Shredding positive myths and stereotypes is a good thing, as long as you are not selective in who you shred stereotypes about - pn6 only shredded the ones of women. Imagine a redditor who only shredded positive myths about black people or who ranted on and on about gay privilege. Now promoting the rights of groups is also good - as long as you are not selective in whose rights you promote. Imagine a person who promoted the rights of religion, but only when it came to christianity, they would not be truly supportive of equal religious rights.
Even if the person did not submit articles supporting the rights of all different groups, that person would be expected to at least sympathize with the other group or validate the other group's concerns, or at the very least not bash those other groups.
This is how pn6 has not been an egalitarian contributor, and I am embarrassed to say I afforded him more time than should have been allowed simply because I believe strongly in the Men's Rights movement, and am sad that he has continued to mix hate with a good message.
-7
What a crock of shit.
Searched for "pn6" in egalitarian, in the first 25 results, I found 7 non-MRA related articles. (I wasn't subscribed so hadn't really been following this reddit, just saw this on the front page). That's almost 30% "other"
Domestic Partnerships: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/7chye/is_domestic_partnership_with_all_of_the_legal/ Same: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/7ce3a/why_restrict_marriage_to_hetero_and_gay_couples/ Religion: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/73gxb/im_not_jewish_but_i_need_50000_can_i_apply/ Lesbian Rights: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/73cg1/when_lesbian_social_moms_are_cast_aside_like/ Gender equality: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/71ywx/all_india_forgotten_women_protest_offensive/ Children/Minors Rights: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/70hi8/the_childrens_development_bank_tips_the_balance/ discrimination based on appearance: http://www.reddit.com/r/egalitarian/comments/6zguc/working_while_ugly_career_advice_for_the/
The next page of 25, ~10-11 were non-MRA related, depending on how you want to classify some of the stuff.
Regardless of his "statistics" though, your basic premise is ludicrous. EVERYONE promotes a certain subset of rights or issues above others, because we're not emotionless robots ruled by pure logic, nor are we perfect engines of morality, able to supremely balance all of our thoughts and deeds to be equally, perfectly nice and correct toward every strata of humanity. Egalitarianism to my mind is a very practical doctrine, and it is nothing like what you are describing.
17
Good work.
10
For every non-mra related article, you'll find at least on mra article, and pn6 being a bigot in the comments.
And in one submission from blogs.psychologytoday.com, pn6 submitted an author who was bigoted against gays by saying men can't say no to sex. Which makes all gay men rapists.
pn6 uses niceness as a tact.
-6
For every non-mra related article, you'll find at least on mra article
And what of it? Equal rights and egalitarianism doesn't mean everyone has to become a faceless, differenceless drone.
and pn6 being a bigot in the comments.
Once again I'd say, show me some evidence of that.
And in one submission from blogs.psychologytoday.com, pn6 submitted an author who was bigoted against gays by saying men can't say no to sex. Which makes all gay men rapists.
Really? Honestly? Did you type that with a straight face?
pn6 uses niceness as a tact.
Well, at least no one could ever accuse you of that, right ;)
9
pn6 submitted an author who was bigoted against gays by saying men can't say no to sex. Which makes all gay men rapists.
Wow, you accuse pn6 of lying, then come up with such complete reality distortions such as this.
You call yourself a skeptic. Start applying that principle to the extremist ideological worldview you're pushing.
pn6 clearly disagreed with the author: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7hv6s/disgusting_if_you_believe_psychology_today_mens/
However, both he, and you, have obviously misconstrued what Satoshi Kanazawa was saying.. It's not that men are unable to say no: it's that sex is a major motivator behind men's actions, which is consistent with both modern psychology, and explainable by way of evolutionary psychology (a topic in which the author has a PhD). Men are less likely to say no to women than vice-versa, because of the differences in their reproductive strategies, and gay men are similarly unlikely to say no to each other.
This bears out in observation: it is much easier for a gay man, regardless of attractiveness, to find a partner at a gay bar, than it is for a similarly attractive straight man to find a willing woman. It's not that we will fuck anything that moves, or are unable to meaningfully consent: it's that given the opportunity, we'll more likely take it than not.
When it comes to issues of gender, your behavior is very much like a creationist. You have your revealed truths, that must not be contradicted by dirty old science.
8
This is why everyone downvotes you Aerik.
0
I am assuming that you are pn6 for a few reasons: Your previous comments supporting or making excuses for pn6.
That's just paranoid to the point of delusion.
or at the very least not bash those other groups.
I have vocally objected to his women-bashing on the MensRights reddit, but haven't seen examples of such on this one. Can you point to any?
I believe strongly in the Men's Rights movement
But you're apparently happy to belittle men over the appearance of their genitalia, or demand men stop participating in discussion unless they display their genitals.
You've shown yourself to be amply selective in who should be treated equally, and when.
11
I think all female genitalia are gross and disgusting.
And indeed if you cannot tell the difference between exposition of an internet trope and a person being serious then I am indeed saddened.
-12
I don't care what your excuse is: you were deliberately endorsing that sort of hostile, sexist commentary with the stated intention of affecting me negatively.
And now you're imposing your body-image expectations on everyone else. Women are feeling driven to vaginoplasty, and your attitude isn't helping.
This isn't egalitarianism, this is Dryice's Private View of What's Right and Wrong.
Can we get some even-handed, objective mods in here?
10
Incidentally, 4chan, the "trope" you were emulating, harbors child pornography and is replete with homophobic, sexist, and racist commentary.
What message do you think you're putting across, by drawing on that culture? Should we start popularizing neo-nazi sayings from StormFront as well?
5
sylvan's sarcasm/satire/parody detector breaks at convenient times for him dont it
-3
I am assuming that you are pn6 for a few reasons: Your previous comments supporting or making excuses for pn6.
I'm not. -_-
I was trying to say that even though he does have problems in what he says/does, he does tend to post more good stuff than bad.
You know, gems like this. And this. And in his own subreddit, things like this, and that.
7
If he has his own subreddit, then I am sure he can manage just fine there. Until he demonstrates a support of other groups, or does not dismiss the concerns of other groups, he is not welcome. It's a sad day, but one that I've put off for too long because I knew there would be cries of discrimination. The truth is I put it off for so long because I wanted men's rights to have a champion here, and he contributed some good ones for that cause. But a lot of them were not.
-5
Until he demonstrates a support of other groups
This is an absolutely unconscionable requirement to participate in a subreddit, especially one about equal rights.
Are you vegan, dryice? Do you support animals' rights to life, freedom, and protection of their habitats being fully recognized in law? Oh, you don't? You're a speciesist. Animals deserve equality too.
Are you going to ban anyone who only posts in support of women's rights, or African-American rights? What if those particular issues are important to them personally, because of their identity or personal experiences?
It's downright Orwellian of you.
does not dismiss the concerns of other groups
If someone is being antagonistic, then that should be dealt with on a post by post basis. I'm not privy to any discussions you had with pn6, but the posts I've seen from here in recent days all looked fine to me.
Challenging statistics and assertions made by extremists of one group, does not amount to dismissing the concerns of the broader group those extremists are a member of.
10
You know... it looks like he has more support in this group than you do.
4
Please provide me some concrete examples of "dismissing the concerns of other groups", or "bash[ing] those other groups". The reddit search is useless for finding individual posts, and I certainly see no evidence of such activity in his link submissions.
2
Why do people want MensRights to turn into something other than itself in order to serve their narrow view?
The same thing applies here to r/egalitarian. I admire the work that pn6 does on [MR]and I think his posts here are appropriately egalitarian.
pn6 attracts attention, when he posts to this r/egalitarian he is doing it a favor by advertising it to people who may be unaware of its existence.
Still people who are unwilling to do anything beyond criticize and tear down feel they have the right to curtail the legitimate freedom of others.
As I recall when r/egalitarian was started about six months ago ~dryice spent a lot of time on [MR] trying to subvert it and bend ~pn6 to his personal will. I see that trend continuing here.
In a recent exchange with ~sysiphuslove on [MR] the following exchange took place: http://www.reddit.com/user/Sysiphuslove/
At the same time, I'm a woman, and this reddit is becoming a lot less 'pro-men' and a lot more 'anti-women'. I like and value MensRights, but can we cool off on 'women ruined the world' and get more toward 'how can we get equal treatment for men'?
I wonder if you are misunderstanding a lot of what is going on here in the MensRights reddit.
A lot of the men who show up here for the first time are in the early stages of realizing that they have been beaten up by a corrupt system and are being punished along with their children for things that they did not do.
It is important to go on fighting and hopefully shattering the media and culture myth of the "bad man versus good woman".
There are men on these pages who are being crushed and broken down by the corrupt system. Many of these men feel defeated depressed and broken.
I want those men to read these stories and get good and angry, get as mad as all hell. Pick themselves up and fight for what is rightfully theirs. And what is it that is rightfully theirs?
Justice.
Men unsupported and alone come to these pages to discover that they are not alone, to discover that there is a rising tide of outrage stirring in the heart of a multitude of men all over this and other continents.
Once these men become organized and focused there is no force on this earth that can stop them from changing this stinking rotten system and putting it to rights.
Afterwords our natural masculine magnanimity and generosity of spirit will no doubt overtake us. And all the good women like yourself will rest easy knowing that you live in a society where justice prevails.
For the time being our swords must remain sharp.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7niqg/recognizing_abusive_women/byxh
I must add that ~sysiphuslove...unknown to me outside reddit... is a woman of integrity high intelligence and compassion.
edit:add information
6
Wow. You're like a satire of yourself. That's kind of scary.
1
Dryice is Gloating at his/her power....
4
About time.
-3
I gave him a lot of chances, and was sad to see him go as SOME of the things he posts are valuable to equality for men, and I want to promote men's rights, but it got to be too much.
-5
Please present a list of posting guidelines for what is or is not acceptable here, beyond Reddit.com's normal rules.
Generally if people don't like something, it gets voted down. That's how Reddit works.
Moderation, to my mind, is a last resort, for spamming, trolling, or distinctly abusive behavior.
To my mind, your buddy Aerik's constant profanity and personal attacks are clearly more detrimental to discussion, than anything pn6 has done.
13
Abusive behavior is right. That defines just about everything pn6 does.
Also, dryice and I are not buddies. I can't think of a time we've ever spoken directly to each other.
Ooh, I'm profane, I say "fucking" and "bullshit," oh wow I'm such a bad person.
Cuz four letter words are more detrimental to discussion than constant, repeated, oft-refuted lies. Uh huh.
-5
That defines just about everything pn6 does.
False generalization.
wow I'm such a bad person.
Constant personal attacks in a discussion are an attempt to intimidate and brow-beat opponents.
8
Aerik, you're projecting again.
7
Can you post the posts in question?
6
Thank you. I was about to unsubscribe from this subreddit since the signal to noise ratio was getting out of hand.
-4
I just wanted to expand my thought, since I see a lot of angst and where I'm coming from is different from what other people are expressing. I have a limited amount of time each day to read websites. I use reddit as a filter for things I want to read. When all the posts I see from one subreddit come from one community member who seems to be on a one man mission on a specific topic, I am disinclined to both read his posts and be a part of that community. Subreddit communities are only useful if they bring up topics the vast majority of their readers want to read. When a subreddit on "science" gets over-populated by posts on someone who wants to question global warming, for example, it means people start unsubscribing. The first few articles may be interesting, but after a while it gets tiresome.
Moderation helps with that.
I've seen this type of discussion happen a number of times in various places... any attempt at defining the purpose of a community is called "censorship". But his voice is not cut off, just redirected. Maybe it's arguable whether a community should be directed at all (or who should direct it and how) or if it should just organically exist. At the end of the day, I personally don't care. I just want some interesting links.
1
Speaking of censorship: looks like pn6's MRA downmod crew has made it's way here.
1
You sure seem to enjoy marginalizing mens rights. Awesome, I'm so glad you can say you are fighting for equal rights that aren't actually equal. I'm so glad you are so quick to put men down, all in the nameof equality!
0
Can an egalitarian, by definition, support censorship? Not that I'm aware of...
Definitely not.
Seems they can, and do. What does that tell you?
[deleted]
Well, dryice is a moderator (I think). So, he probably felt overwhelmed or disagreed with.
What would you do if someone ripped you a new asshole?
It still doesn't mean he should censor us.