Source
r/FFBraveExvius•
badmonkey7

Is double bard a thing?

GL Discussion

Just curious if anyone familiar with JP has come across any strategies for trials/bosses where double bard has helped. The reason I'm asking is because both Ramza and now Lunera are here in GL. Both of them are good bards, but they also have secondary uses.

For example; Ramza breaks x 2 plus another action while Lunera covers buff duty. Then they switch alowing Lunera to fire off some MAG damage. Is this a viable strategy or a waste of space?

(asking for a friend who enhanced Ramza and now is hesitant to spend crysts on another bard named Lunera)

Posted Feb 7, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

753
mornstar01•

That wouldn't be that great considering that Ramza only can break attack and magic. Having more than one bard isn't a great idea, however, for Lunera it's better to utilize her as a source of DPS.

8
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

You don't know that yet. Her bard buffs could equal or exceed Ramza... and her HP and MP regen are supposed to be buffed when her HP and MP regen were already equal to or greater than Ramzas!

I actually think you may be onto something badmonkey7... Ramza's breaks are incredible... if you can be buffed, get HP and MP regen, protect your party by destroying the enemy's ATK and MAG, then deal damage while Ramza buffs, that could be a win win!

4
dusk353•

Ling/Lunera would be better than Ramza/Lunera, I think.

1
mornstar01•

Okay suppose her buffs exceeds Ramza's, i still wouldn't bring then Ramza for the sole purpose of breaking attack and defense and switching with Lunera who for the sake of discussion can have better buffs. You are literally wasting a precious unit slot. I would rather bring WoL for debuffs since he can do AOE 45% breaks across the board. Ramza's breaks are great but are locked to single target and only attack and magic.

Either that or a dedicated healer.

-2†
beanid827,850,481•

In our OHTKO meta that most strive for and the complexity and tank/support/dps requirements for newer trial and even 10 mans i would say 2 bards is not necessary and would probably hinder your team then running a single bard and deltia or WoL/Mystea

7
mornstar01•

Exactly this!

-4
SomeRandomDeadGuyStronger than CG sakura, well played Gumi...•

To be fair a ramza-broken enemy does 0.16 of their damage, while a WoL-broken enemy does 0.3025 of their damage, almost double.

2
mornstar01•

Yes but for drawn out fights your Ramza will have some down time doing nothing since his breaks last 5 turns I believe. This isn't slot effective.

2
SirBarthYan... we'll be together. In the meta.•

Then a 7* CGLid-broken does... welp... 0.044 of their damage.

1
scathias•

taking ramza along for his breaks means that it could be possible to not need a tank at all for that fight vs definitely needing one if you only take WoL and his breaks.

1
mornstar01•

Those kinds of fights that you are describing will not be common as we further ourselves into the meta. Being able to do that means your party is over powered for the content you are doing.

1
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

It wouldn't be ideal for every type of battle for sure... but it would be a perfect strategy for battles that only have one target whose ATK or MAG can be broken and that target is the one that deals a high percent of the damage. Trials where it could work...

Beasts of the Dark

Octopus Teacher

Sheratan

Elnath

1
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

If Ling's breaks are boosted to equal Ramza's, this is non-issue... that said... since there are currently no other units that have 60% breaks of atk and mag on-demand... (Knight Delita does with his LB but that takes prep and luck)... 60% breaks are a HUGE difference from 45%... If you ask Howl, he'll explain it... there are some other videos on Youtube I came across which explain it too but I don't know which they are. Ramza's breaks last for 5 turns... his song lasts for 3... same with Lunera's... You break with Ramza and buff with Lunera first turn... bring pod 153 and maybe Rikku's pouch with Ramza... Each time Ramza's breaks wear off, you'll have to re-apply the breaks but during that turn you will have no buffs or HP or MP regen (unless you have another source)... so having Lunera bard-ing during that turn, protects and regens you so you can use your best moves with the rest of your party without having to worry about MP.

0
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

I should say TURNS if the enemy you're breaking requires both ATK and MAG to be broken... and i'll edit to 60% not 65... oops

1
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

With Ramza's ATK and MAG 60% breaks and Lunera and his own HP and MP regen, there is barely a need for a healer!...

I found a video I watched before about the difference between no breaks, 40% breaks, and 60% breaks...

Watch this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzg5W_YD_M&t=231s

Basically, going from 40% to 60% breaks reduces the amount of damage taken by almost 2/3 (two thirds!)... With no breaks the damage is around 170 to 175, with 40% breaks the damage is around 60 to 65, and with 60% breaks, the damage is a measly 20 to 24! So breaking from 170 down to 20 to 24... that's like 12 to 15% of the total damage you'd be taking if the enemy was not broken at all!

So lets say an enemy has an attack which deals 6000 damage without being broken... if you break that enemy's attack by 60%, you can expect your team to only be damaged by (6000 * .13) = 780....

Meanwhile the 40% break reduces from 170 to around 65 so it's close to 38% of the damage... so for that same attack which would hit you by 6000, with a 40% break, the attack would hit you for (6000 * .38) = 2280

So with the 40% breaks you're taking 2280 damage for each attack while with the 60% breaks you're taking only 780 damage for each attack!

0
Izumo_leeFor best laifu get an elven waifu•

Well in her 7* form Lunera has that 135% 5 turn cool down ability. So if you run 2 Lunera's each can alternate using that skill and basically have 135% all stats the entire time. Plus it is a massive hp/mp heal.

Though that is a long ways away but you can start planning for that.

1
Kazediel•

Tbh that's so far off that I wouldn't bother.

By that time you might as well have CG Nichol, 7* Roy or who knows what, since which 5* dupes you get is pretty much out of your control.

1
juances19we need more lolis•

In that setup, ramza can be replaced with anyone that breaks.

I wouldn't call that double bard because one of them is just using misc support skills and not acutally using his bard skills. So it's more like bard + support (obviously "true" double bard would be pointless)

1
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

No one can break ATK and MAG by 60%...and for 5 turns... the difference between breaking by 45% and 60% is A LOT bigger than 15% damage... Check out this video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzg5W_YD_M&t=231s

2
ImpetrixGolbez is best waifu•

I'm considering running a full defensive comp with the 3 Bards, Wilhelm, and Ayaka.

With Lunera's "GLEX" buff that came with Tinkerer Carrie she can now break 1000 MAG while still having a massive amount of SPR as well (like 800 minimum.) So if I use Roy for buffs, Ramza for breaks, and Lunera for damage I'm never going to die. Wilhelm is tanky enough to take any physical attack thrown at him ever, and everyone else except Ramza easily reaches 1000 SPR with buffs (Ramza has a lot more HP though.)

In the event the enemy is immune to ATK/MAG breaks I just swap out Ramza for a Finisher to cap 2x Lunera's chain.

1
FunOnFridaysOlderion Officer Nichol•

Ive used Lunera and Soleil in my party to beat Malboro before. Not the same thing as one is a dancer but they almost fulfilled the same role. The main reason I used Lunera was for her MP regen running GL Sakura. Soleil only granted me the higher mag buff and SPR breaking the boss.

1
Werewolfhero★ Wado ★•

You're forgetting using Lunera just as a chainer (if that skill is fully awakened its 30 hits) and Ramza/Roy as the buffer

1
nbiscuitz309 998 193 FUCKEVE•

triple bard rotation in FFXI memories comes back...

1
Kazediel•

Short answer: No

Long answer: Well, it depends. You probably won't ever use double bard (this has not been meta in any fight that I can think of at least) but Ramza+Lunera MAY be a thing. Thing is, you're not using Ramza as a bard in that case, but rather just cycle between his breaks and give him Rikku's Pouch/Pod so he can act as a godly support, it's just that he won't be singing unless you really need him to.

0
Acester25Love my A2 and two GLSakuras (1100+ Atk, 1200+ MAG respectively)•

I had that thought too but I'm thinking the rotation I just figured out might be the optimal one... and that one doesn't require Pod or Rikku's pouch... that said... It probably wouldn't hurt to have them equipped in case the rest of the party gets in trouble with status ailments... at that point you could temporarily stop dealing magic damage with Lunera and have her sing an extra rotation while Ramza cures status ailments and adds damage mitigation on top of his 60% breaks.

This rotation will effectively give you all of the following for the rest of the battle by turn 2...

ATK of the main enemy broken by 60%, MAG of the main enemy broken by 60%

ATK/MAG/DEF/ and SPR buffed by at least 100% for all allies

MP Regen of 75+ per turn all allies

HP Regen (not sure how much off the top of my head) per turn all allies

Lunera will be able to deal a hefty amount of damage 2 out of every 5 turns...

There are no two units that I know of that could accomplish all of those things on every turn.

Here's how it would play out...

Turn 1 : Ramza breaks ATK by 60%, Lunera starts singing and boosts all stats by (hopefully) 120%, regen of MP and HP

Turn 2 : Ramza breaks MAG by 60%, Lunera still singing

Turn 3 : Ramza starts his song, Lunera still singing

Turn 4 : Ramza still singing, Lunera stops singing and attacks with MAG damage

Turn 5 : Ramza still singing, Lunera still not singing and can attack with MAG damage (ATK and MAG debuffs still in effect on the enemy but ATK debuff will wear off on turn 6)

Turn 6: Ramza stops singing and breaks ATK by 60%, Lunera sings again (MAG debuff still in effect but will wear off on turn 7)

Turn 7: Ramza breaks MAG by 60%, Lunera still singing

Turn 8: Ramza sings again, Lunera still singing

Turn 9: Ramza still singing, Lunera stops singing and does MAG damage

Turn 10: Ramza still singing, Lunera does MAG damage

Repeat!

**Note: The reason they are both singing on turn 3 and turn 8 (every 3rd turn in the 5-turn rotation) is so Ramza can get DONE with his song in time to be able to break ATK when it wears off so there are zero turns where the enemy's ATK and MAG are NOT broken. **

3
toooskies•

This works well if you have a Prishe to use too. Prishe Special comes up on turns 4 and 5 of her rotation and matches the hit count of Lunera's attack, and they can wind elemental chain together. Prishe's LB can also handle the DEF/SPR debuffing, although the rotation gets a little funky using it.

2
Kazediel•

Yeah, I get why and how it works. Whether you want to run that over other setups I am not so convinced about.

Also, keep in mind that building Lunera for MAG comes at a penalty on SPR or HP, which should hurt her song a bit, not the most relevant tidbit ever, but worth pointing out

1
fourrier01Granny Loli Sakura•

I'll just aim for CG Nichol where 65% AoE Full Break, 130% stat buffs, 2000 HP/turn and 60 MP/turn is all set on turn 1.

1 slot 1 activation.

0
Mizer18Merc Ramza•

I guess I know who I'm actually hoarding for, then.

1
SomeRandomDeadGuyStronger than CG sakura, well played Gumi...•

he breaks your party for the oposite stat to what he's 130% buffing, not the enemy

1
Mizer18Merc Ramza•

If that's the case, it is worded terribly.

1
Thisizterry•

CG Nichol doesn't break the enemy. The debuff from his 50 mp 130 atk/mag, and def/spr skills applies to your own party. You get around that by using stat debuff cleansing/immunity skills from like eiko or santa roselia, or his own LB, etc.

edit: It does help without much drawback for lila teams, where the atk debuff doesn't matter since her dmg scales off spirit.

Edit 2: I should mention that his bread and butter skills are his 109 mp 100 all stats + 2k+ heal skill, the 3 turn 30% damage reduction, and 40 party mana regen skills which can all be dual cast. You weave those together as necessary on a 6 turn rotation. Secondary skills are his 2 resist skills and the 110 atk or mag + lb rate increase, or 110 def or spr with lb fill skills. I've used him so much at 6star that hes at 33% tmr without tm farming him at all (did give him the 5% moogle from his unit story quest though). His 7star gives him a few new skills to work with, although they have cooldowns (they saved my ass during the new 2 headed dragon reborn trial due to the included esper orb fill).

1
fourrier01Granny Loli Sakura•

Ah right. I forgot the original version has similar effect.

1