Daytime sleep paralysis

I have an EDS diagnosis and am taking Nuvgil. This helps me concentrate but does nothing for the other symptoms I am having. I told my neurologist about the following symptoms and he FREAKED OUT, advised me to go to emergency + local GP, and says it is not cataplexy/sleep paralysis. I am now looking for a neurologist that would be a better fit. Here are my symptoms:


All of the following occur together:

  • It usually starts with sudden feeling going down through torso like adrenaline with a general feeling of weakness, almost nausea. NO sweaty palms, racing heartbeat, etc.

  • A hunger pang or thirst.

  • A need to swallow once or twice.

  • Voice goes low and gravelly, and can stay that way for hours, or clear up within a few minutes.

  • Vision can blur.

LABORED BREATHING (this is what freaked out the Dr.):

  • Feel weak and winded (has happened for a long time).

  • Breathing is shallow, in a limited range (this is new).

  • It’s difficult to breathe in. It’s hard to lift to get a breath (this is new).

  • It feels like I don’t have enough breathing muscles that I can control. The effort is tiring. Like a fish gasping.

  • Full deep breaths take concerted effort.

  • Autonomic breathing is working. Blood O2 is actually OK! 97.

  • This has been getting worse. I had a recent day where it got to the point where I couldn't do anything else, except sit and try to breathe.

  • An occasional breath can feel like contaminated air or “smogged” lungs. That can be the first indication that weakness is coming.

Other symptoms:

  • Walking is slowed, it’s like walking through water.

  • Some yawning.

  • Difficulty concentrating / speaking during weakness feeling. It can interrupt a sentence.

  • Weakness in legs, can stumble briefly.

When:

  • The above can last for hours, with heightened weakness events at random intervals every 10 minutes or so.

  • It can happen during activity like walking, or when resting.

  • More likely to happen after walking. Or when I start to relax, or am waiting for something. More likely to happen when emotions are high.

  • I have zero control of when any of this occurs. Trying to relax, meditate has no effect (may make it happen more often).

Trigger: Eating something (first full swallow, or drink of hot tea) can trigger a very intense reaction.

  • I feel like my head is being pulled downward.

  • It is hard to open my eyes.

  • I struggle rigidly to stay upright, to unbend and sit up straight and open my eyes.

  • One of these lasted for up to 5 minutes. After that I started feeling better, could get up, and voice went back to normal.

Sometimes I have noticed my overall energy level while walking can get linked to phase of breathing. I haven't noticed any difficulty breathing when this is happening (not even noticing breathing in any way). This happens maybe once a month, usually when walking after a near-nap. I'm walking along normally, then the sudden slowdown feels like being held back (while breathing in), speedup feels like an increasing spring in my step (while breathing out). I did not connect this to breathing the first 5 or so times it happened. It just felt like I was being suddenly impeded while walking, like walking into a soft wall. Once I figured out what was happening, I could experiment with it by slowing my breathing out to make the speedup last longer, or breathing in early to make the slowdown happen. I tried to fake myself out by saying "breathing in is faster...zoom!", but that had no effect. My Dr. has been SOOO helpful by telling me "that's not cataplexy". Fine. Then what is it?

Episode of getting stuck: After lying down for some time not feeling well (see above). Got up and shuffled to stove to get a bowl of soup. Got bowl to table, set it down, put hands down on it to steady myself (feeling weak), and could not move. I could not initiate movement. It lasted about a minute. I felt bad -- helpless, because I couldn't move.

This same difficulty starting movement happens when being awakened from near-napping (I don’t have to be all the way out, intermittent dreaming, can hear what is going on around me). Difficulty moving can last a short time under 10 seconds (normal sleep paralysis).

Blood oxygen seems OK 97 (I got a pulse oximeter). Heart rate 51-58 BP 145 / 88

I don't have: Catiplexy as a result of being startled. Hallucinations.


There are things there that don't match standard Narcolepsy symptoms.

  • The breathing difficulty is a recognized sleep paralysis symptom (not by my Dr.), but this happens to me during the day, not when waking up. I have found no references to sleep paralysis during the day.

  • I have found nothing about energy level locked to the phase of breathing.

  • The episodes after swallowing something sound like cataplexy to me, but I haven't heard of swallowing as a trigger.

  • I don't spontaneously fall asleep. Ever. I often feel exhausted and attempt to rest sitting and leaning back wherever I am. I start to dream, but rarely go all the way out. I can still hear. I usually have difficulty moving for a few seconds when brought out of that kind of near-nap.

I have attempted a MSLT, but that was a fail for several reasons. A very close relative has something similar, and Xyrem works short term, but has bad longer term side effects. It's likely that I would have the same results.

I'm left with:

What the heck is it?

What kind of neurologist could help? Doctors throw up their hands when any part is outside their narrow subspecialty. I'm looking at:

  • Movement neurologist

  • Neuromuscular neurologist

Any ideas?

Posted Feb 24, 2018, 8:32 PM UTC · edited

39
scrimsims•

Definitely seek a second opinion. I don't really have anything to offer but my sympathy. I am diagnosed narcolepsy but I also get the weird drinking/eating thing. FWIT

2
ItsInconceivableOP•

Thank you for replying. It really helps to know someone else is experiencing at least part of this. Can you tell more about your eating/drinking trigger? Is the reaction considered cataplexy?

I fortunately just got a good video of the eating thing happening to me (really nice Thai food -- wham!).

1
RightTrashnarcolepsy & cataplexy•

Your breathing stuff reminds me of the 'Idiopathic Central Apnea' that I have, which is thankfully minimal to moderate, but not a good thing. There are times I have to focus in and think on breathing to get it going autonomously; it is best to avoid panic, but there has been some times I get near to such. Honestly, for me I can tell an enormous difference between 190lb and 200lb, it also seems [edit] like GERD in that what I eat plays into it a lot, dairy was actually triggering breathing difficulty so I cut it out and have been much better off.

The Idiopathic Central Apnea dx is seen on occasions in P w/ N (I've read before), it doesn't seem to be the common Central related to heart failure (there are many sorts of Central Apneas); who really knows and again I'm speaking only on my matter. The 'idiopathic' part means 'for unknown reason/s.' The Central indicates it relates to my neurological system, there's a disconnect or error in communications between my brain and respiratory system. I discovered my apnea matter trying to get confirmation that I was not experiencing seizures, but Cataplexy (and had been collapsing from it for 8 years before getting that far), they put me on PAP therapy (Positive Airway Pressure) and it honestly over 9 months made everything much worse. So, I was told to discontinue use of such, and things regressed gradually. Then I made Huge Lifestyle adjustments, especially in what and how I eat, some really hard stuff and some not so hard, just clear cut living healthy stuff too and stepping back from certain things that were clearly not helping me out, I live very isolated due to the disease but it's okay...

I'm not sure what you're experiencing, I want to say try not battling, fighting or resisting when you're struck with what you describe in 'Trigger:' as, if that is Cataplexy it will amplify/intensify/prolong from your attempting to fight or resist it. If you can be comfortable with it, you may be better off, however your priority is to stay safe, if that means lay down on the ground, do it.

There a symptom called 'Status Cataplecticus' which is a bit different from Cataplexy, but similar and considered most commonly related to withdrawal from certain antidepressant meds.

I'm no doctor, so don't hear me as one. Seek expertise though, go out of your way if you must, don't follow who-ever (or anyone really) blindly, be part of the process, do your own research (I suggest really diving into the terminology related to sleep and the symptoms of sleep disorders, as it's so flexible and loose, it's very hard to be heard accurately and/or interpret it well), don't hesitate to seek other opinions and be sure they're listening as well as helping, pay attention and keep a focus on effects of meds, positives have to outweigh the negatives...

Wish you luck out there.

1
ItsInconceivableOP•

Thank you. I'm working on some lifestyle changes. We walked just now for the first time in several weeks. I'm going to try to keep that up. I know that exercise is #1. I had difficulty with deep breaths while we were walking, then it eventually switched over to speed up / slow down with each breath. It was better to not have the distress.

The problem with the eating trigger is that it happened multiple times while trying to eat lunch. I have an 18-minute video of me trying to eat. I don't want to put my head down for several minutes after every bite! That's actually pretty scary. I am going to try variations (sitting down at the table without eating, trying bland food). That whole thing is very new and has happened to some extent every time I have eaten in the last 24 hours.

I see that lots of research is needed to get all of the vocabulary. I really want to find the possible dx. I will research "Idiopathic Central Apnea" and the other things you mentioned (I know you aren't giving medical advice). I am currently using a CPAP, so that's an interesting wrinkle. Thanks for your help.

1
RightTrashnarcolepsy & cataplexy•

Really hope you're able to figure things out, and sooner than later. It got to a point with me, where my symptoms and inparticularly the Cataplexy had gotten way out of control, over the course of time I followed the treatments. It was like 1 month on CPAP, then another month on a BiPAP ST and then 7 months on a VPAP Adapt Swervo machine.

The first few sleep studies they kept telling me I had Obstructive Apnea, it was clear to me that that was not what the actual reports were showing. To be blunt, both the sleep lab at the local hospital in a college town in the midwest and the neurologist were not hearing/listening nor were very knowledged, it was an awful experience dealing with either. Took 5 sleep studies before they at Mayo Clinic did a "botched" MSLT as a door was opened during one of the naps, plus I couldn't achieve 6 hours sleep the night before. Got a "probable N w/ definitive C" dx and am fine with that, along with the 'Idiopathic Central Apnea' dx.

Part of my responding here, is to say, find a large facility or medical school with some expertise, go out of your way to find someone with experience. Seek Neurologist with Sleep Board/Medicine Certificates.

The eating triggering whatever that is, sounds potentially very scary, I wish I had advice but don't, an endocronologist (spelling?) may know.?

1
egoomega•

Get a 2nd opinion for sure.

My quick take from just skimming your post is this.. If you do have narcolepsy, this could all be related and some of these feelings by exaggerated the more we let N rule our life.

So if you have N, I can only suggest a few thing to see if it helps clear up anything ur suffering ...

  • Get a SET schedule for sleep. Go to sleep.and wake up and take a nap at the same time every day. This is hard. Real hard. But makes a huge impact.

  • eat accordingly, cut out simple carbs, junk food and sugars as much as possible. Eat small meals and snacks throughout the day.

  • Get furniture that is comfortable but sorta forces posture and isnt total reclining luxury so you can't fall asleep as easy.

  • exercise. Fit this into your schedule. You don't hafta be a meat head just basic exercise a few times a week or more.

All of these things will help combat the narcolepsy and in turn sleep paralysis and other I'll effects.

1
ItsInconceivableOP•

Thanks. I am working on getting regular sleep. Also, today is day two of exercising. So that's some progress.

1
[deleted]•

I have the exact same issues, almost all of them.
The thing for me was that my electrolytes were out of whack. The paralysis episodes are triggered by my blood potassium level going haywire during periods of stress or after eating certain foods, and sitting still too long.
I got prescribed potassium tablets to take during an attack and they resolve it in five to ten minutes.
I'm not a doctor obv so don't take this as a diagnosis but that's what it was for me.
My main point is a lot of doctors will try to convince you it's anxiety or it's in your head. Don't let them.

1
ItsInconceivableOP•

That's interesting that low potassium can be involved. My potassium just came back normal... I will check with my doctor to see if I can safely add any. B12 was low, so working on that. So far the doctors haven't tried to say it's in my head, but they do look at me funny. Fortunately my GP takes me seriously. Thanks.

2
ItsInconceivableOP•

I have a new neuromuscular neurologist. His working hypothesis is periodic paralysis (not N). He prescribed Diamox as a test (a diuretic that helps correct the way potassium, sodium, and calcium move in and out of cells). My daily attacks ended and have not returned. The most important next step is a genetic test (results in 2 weeks). PP is rare (1 in 50,000) and mimics many aspects of N. As a rule sleep doctors have NO CLUE that P.P. exists. They proceed to distrust you when presented with your symptoms. See periodicparalysis.org and hkpp.org. It didn’t matter that my potassium level looks normal. It can shift right before an attack and be normal during the attack. I will post an update when the genetic test comes back.

1