Posted Mar 26, 2009, 9:30 PM UTC
Don't try to factor in logic or reason. Medal of Honor recipient Joe Foss, ace WWII USMC fighter pilot and one of the heroes of the modern airline industry, was flying from Phoenix Sky Harbor airport to West Point to give a speech to the cadets when he was stopped by TSA personnel.
They would not permit him to fly because he was carrying his Medal of Honor with him. It was made of metal and had sharp points. They had never seen one before, and did not know what it was.
There was also the story of the wounded Iraq vet who had his jaw wired shut and was carrying a pair of pliers, with medical verification, to cut the wire in case of vomiting...and they took the pliers, essentially risking his life because they can't ever think independently.
Seriously. We should start to punish people for following regulations blindly. "If you don't break company policy/the law once in a while, we'll throw you in prison."
I think a lot of the world's problems could be resolved by removing all laws and just having like one: Don't be an asshole.
Really, when you think about it, that just about covers every situation.
Ah yes. But sometimes when someone is being as asshole, one needs to out-asshole him/her to deliver justice (verbal or physical)
I don't know, you might need a second rule: Don't be a fucking dumbass.
The thing is, you shouldn't have to break policy. There should be a bit that says something along the lines of: "If you deem it necessary, then the rules can be disregarded in cases of medical situations, extreme circumstances etc.".
Ah, it's that "deem it necessary" bit that would throw most people. They need to blindly follow rules and regs. Asking people to apply rules within context requires thought, and through popular media and doctrine, this has been bred out of a lot of people.
Or am I just getting too cynical?
I think this is actually the law where I live. Or rather the defense of "just following orders" isn't valid. If you're stupid, then that's your responsibility.
Sometimes I do love my country.
if the pliers were less than seven inches long there would have been no problem because tools under seven inches cannot possibly be used by terrorists
if that's true how come so many of them are able to reproduce?
Currently, it is 7:55 AM... I hope this is the worst joke I see all day.
It may not be able to please women, but it could "deliver".
And people think we need more civil servants.
Well, we could use them. Just not as the TSA or police. More firemen are almost always a good thing, more EMTs, again a good thing.
Wait until the government unveils its new War on Fire.
More fremen are almost always a good thing,
There, FTFY
Perhaps more "civil" civil servants?
Yeah, ones to protect us from the idiots they already hired.
Was it Allied Assault or....?
well done
rare
in cow
Well, it IS an upside down pentagram (look at it), so clearly he must have been an elderly Satanist intent on sacrificing his fellow passengers to Beelzebub.
I love the way we've bred common sense out of the bureaucratic sector.
That pisses me off so much. They take away anything sharp or potentially dangerous, then put you on an aircraft full of sharp and dangerous things. Glass bottles, metal knives. Anything can be a weapon. Well, maybe not a fluffy kitten. But everything else.
Before too long, I suspect we won't be able to fly with shoelaces lest we garrote someone. It's as if when humans get on a plane we lose all sense of reason, and just want to kill each other, and ourselves.
Just count those lucky stars TSA hasn't seen the Monty Python skit about the fresh fruit defense instructor.
Yeah, but four large and heavily armed RCMP tasered a guy to death in Vancouver because he was armed with.... a stapler.
Stupidity is contagious.
"It's as if when humans get on a plane we lose all sense of reason, and just want to kill each other, and ourselves."
It's the same twisted government logic that turns anyone in possession of a joint a drug addict or a gun a serial killer. Also the reason why you NEVER give the government more power. Ever. Unintended consequences always result.
Fluffy kittens are stored down below, well out of reach.
If you take a fluffy kitten with both hands, shake it, and then throw it at someone, it becomes a weapon.*
*Yesiamanostrich does not condone this course of action.
I'm totally imagining the Glaive from Krull. Must go shake my cat and destroy the Beast!
Then, on the plane, they will sell you special strings to keep your shoes from coming off.
I have heard many stories of yoyo'ers traveling to competitions and being told they aren't allowed to take their bundles of spare yoyo strings onboard because they are a weapon.
Wow! Just, wow. I never saw that story before, although it happened in 2002 I may have seen it but forgot. Those TSA people should have been sent back to school or at least told to write a letter of apology and also one on the Medal of Honor.
Similar story about a WWII Bronze Star recipient.
Hyperbole much? In the end the TSA did let him get on his flight with his Medal of Honor. You also don't know that none of the screeners knew what it was.
Early adopters of the macbook air got stopped by the TSA too. They didn't think it was a laptop, so they wanted to open it.
I'm no fan of the TSA, but you surely can't expect them to recognise every object in existence? If I remember the reports correctly, the MacBook Air incidents were the first day or so of release, so they were literally brand new. As long as they let people go on after a quick check of the laptop, I don't think there's much of an issue. The TSA does far more irritating things than inspect a new laptop they don't recoginise.
Oh, I'm not saying they should have done anything differently. They eventually let the people through, after thoroughly checking for the ever elusive domestic terrorist. They haven't caught one yet, but it's only been the last eight years they've actually been looking.
And yet I can walk right through the metal detector with a lot more than the allowed fluid restrictions in my cargo shorts.
They shouldn't HAVE to recognise every object in existence!
Do you know how 9/11 happened? It didn't happen because someone bought on a damn box full of wires and circuits, it just happened as-is.
They should not be in charge of what gets on an airplane and what doesn't.
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No one expects them to recognize every object in existence. I expect them to employ some critical thinking and be able to handle things they haven't seen before.
most of the MBA-related "troubles" sounded like marketing anyway. Those I read on reddit (and I KNOW FOR A FACT that THIS IS REALITY HERE!!1) almost all featured some guy surprisingly cool with having missed a flight and could have ended with the Apple logo and some "think different" slogan on display
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Duh, and they'll never get one.
Sounds like an interesting story. Source?
I swear...whoever they're hiring to work these jobs at the airport must be like a step or three below fast food workers. At least fast food workers are nice and polite. These people are just retards. FULL retards.
I don't see their decision as illogical nor unreasonable. People are not allowed to carry nail clippers either. Their decision seems entirely consistent.
I would consider it more problematic if they started exempting people based on "Do you know who I am?" status, as you appear to be suggesting.
Why do people tell good stories and never link. Link to this story, don't just tell it.
Good usage; golf clap.
I've been waiting weeks to use that. It's pretty sad.
The commie bastard gets no food!
That was awesome.
Yes yes, fantastic, I know how to google. Problem is there are 100s of stories and when someone is discussing something in particular you like to be on the same PAGE as them, metaphorically and literally.
I can't count how many times I've fired off a response to someone who posted a chunk out of a story, using information I googled about the story, only to not have found the newer story (6 pages back) that had more details that the first 6 pages of stories missed. It's just nice to link to what you're talking about. Yes...I can google, but that wasn't what I was asking for.
Because it's so hard to Google "Joe Foss" +Phoenix +"Medal of Honor"?
You don't need the plus symbol. I can't even imagine how much time you've wasted typing all those extra keystrokes over the last half a decade with every one of your Google searches.
Depends on what you're looking for. If you want all your search terms to be in the page you're linked to, you need to add plus signs. Otherwise, the requirement is only that the words are mentioned on pages linking to the page that Google links you to.
Says the guy who has no clue how to run a database search.
"Joe Foss" +Phoenix +"Medal of Honor"
Results 1 - 10 of about 813 for "Joe Foss" +Phoenix +"Medal of Honor"
Remove the plus signs?
Results 1 - 10 of about 825 for "Joe Foss" Phoenix "Medal of Honor"
Remove the quote marks?
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,720 for Joe Foss Phoenix Medal of Honor
There is a difference. Knowledge is power.
I wonder how many people who have never even used AltaVista still use AltaVista search syntax simply because they've seen what people who did use AltaVista use.
All those plus signs and quotes are just cargo cult behaviour.
Maybe not everything needs an objective and verifiable source, readily linkable at all times. People are telling amusing/horrifying anecdotes, that's all. Just sit down, and chill the fuck out.
I'm not like saying this in some raged out voice, I was just saying... people should link to interesting stuff instead of just leaving it kind of unverified. I dunno, I guess I tend to always do it if a link is available. And I'm lazy and don't feel like googling it myself.
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I agree with that. They should not make an exception for him.
EDIT: Nothing personal against the guy, just that if they're going to tell you that something can't be brought on a plane, then there shouldn't be exceptions because someone is "important."
Why don't you do 5 seconds of research on the enormous amount of sacrifice that is required to even be recommended for a Medal of Honor is service to your country. There is a reason that it is protocol that even the Commander in Chief salutes the recipient, not the other way around.
There is a reason most of the MOHs are given posthumously. Foss is one of the few that have been honored without terrible loss of limb or life. He put his ass on the line so often and so successfully on a daily basis to defend the nation that the highest honor we can offer to a service man was given to him.
He then went on to become an elected member of the ND state legislature for two terms and then became the Governor of the State of North Dakota.
I'm pretty sure the man has paid his dues to earn the right to carry the highest award we can bestow on a member of the military wherever the fuck he wants. It isn't a matter of his importance. It is a matter of respect and honor.
"Oh, I see you donated years of your life to protect our freedom and nation, here let's piss all over you because we are too fucking stupid to even know what the MOH is."
Good lord, calm down! I am in no way impugning this man's sacrifice, or suggesting that a medal of honor is not important or deserved.
I'm simply saying that everyone who is in the regular security line at the airport should be treated the same. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Airport security can compliment the man, say "thank you for your service," or anything else they want to say to express their gratitude. But they still need to do their job, at the end of the day. If you think the security rules are stupid or ineffective (and I'm not making an argument either way there), then go after the rules. But until those rules are changed, then they apply equally to everyone.
This is not an emotional argument.
The man has paid his dues to earn the right to carry the highest award we can bestow on a member of the military wherever the fuck he wants.
Apparently you didn't make through that part of the post. To call a man a national security risk (which is exactly what the TSA agents were doing) for carrying a symbol of the highest honor we can give to an individual for protecting the nation is completely fucked up.
I'm all about personal responsibility. Choosing to enforce an asinine rule to keep a job that is unnecessary and destructive to personal liberty makes you complicit in my book.
That was a bit excessive. But I agree with you on all points.
He then went on to become an elected member of the ND state legislature for two terms and then became the Governor of the State of North Dakota.
So he went from being a hero to being a politician?
There shouldn't be exceptions because someone is "important".
There should be exceptions for common sense and dignity.
I'm all for common sense and dignity. However, it's not really practical in this situation. Do they bend the rules for a single parent with four kids, because she has a lot to deal with? Do they let Nobel Prize winners through, because obviously they're smart? I could go on and on, but you get my point.
Again, I'm all for dignity, but sometimes "common sense and dignity" cannot be operationalized into a set of rules that apply to everyone.
Of course it's practical in this, and all situations.
In neither of your hyperbolic examples you just gave did you bother to state what either the single mother or nobel winner had done to deserve being hassled.
Should the single mother be ridiculed and threatened because one of her children has a sippy cup half full of water? (this was a real case). Is the nobel winner being tasered because he has a slide rule with sharp edges in his carry on?
The TSA is there to do one job: Make our airplanes safer. Stopping people because they're slow to take off their belt, or because they have tweezers in their shaving kit does NOT help make our skies safe. It only adds to the stress of travel, and to the persistent state of fear our government wants us to be in. Fear of terrorists, fear of authority, fear of our neighbors, fear of suspicious activity, fear of our own shadow.
Fear is control, and when you submit to those fears in the name of safety, you give all your control away to someone else.
He should be more understanding. That security guard was obviously disabled mentally. Some people are so insensitive.
He needed a high five.
I was on my way to the States for a couple of weeks, flying out of Germany. I'd packed pretty light - in fact, I usually like to travel without luggage, since its nice to travel light and not have any luggage stress, and I think its pretty fun to get local clothes in the first days of my journey (I budget like that) - so I only had a few pairs of socks and underwear stashed in my laptop bag, which was pretty well stocked with fun stuff for my trip. I'm a musician, so I had a few MIDI controllers and assorted cables, and not much else but the aforementioned socks ..
Anyway, on the way through German security, we discovered that I'd left my Swiss Army knife in the bottom of the bag .. oops! Shit! I say 'we', by the way, because when it was discovered and I was all "es tut mir wirklich leid!!" the guard was all "no problems, sir, happens all the time, this way please", and he escorts me off to the side, where a waiting guard, who had seen the fuss, askes me for 10 euro's, which I pay dutifully, at which point he puts my knife right then and there in a mail package, asks my address, and sends it off. It was like I was part of a team whose responsibility was to get me on my flight as quickly as possible with no stress. No problems - wasn't confiscated, lots of smiles at my embarrassment, and the knife was there for me at home after I go back from the trip ..
However, on the other end of the flight, in America, I spent 6 hours in imprisonment by the US authorities, who simply could not believe that I had not packed any clothes for my 2 week visit, but had packed my MIDI gear - which they thought was highly, highly suspicious, and no matter how many times I showed them that my intention was to get new clothing pretty much the moment I was 'free' from the airport, they wouldn't listen. It was the most humiliating, bullshit experience. I was told that I had the 'signs of a suicide attack', that I would have to be 'crazy' to travel internationally without at least some clothes, and that I was 'too suspicious'.
And now I've vowed, pretty much, not to go back to the US unless I really, really, need to. Which is to say: never. Unless they change the TSA hiring regulations to be exclusively the domain of hot porn stars serving chocolate fudge sundaes while they perform, forget it USA. My tourist dollars are going elsewhere.
Yep, I was very impressed both times I went through German airport security. VERY Thorough yet polite, friendly, efficient, lines were almost non-existant, and this was at Frankfurt, the busiest airport on the European continent. Kind of funny how Americans percieve Germans as so mechanical and by-the-book, yet they use so much common sense compared to the ass clowns at TSA.
VERY Thorough yet efficient. Lines were almost non-existant.
There's a nazi joke in here somewhere.
yeah, but the joke only happens after you deplane in the US.
deplane! deplane!
The German security does things by the book exclusively, it's just that they can read and understand the book and it is not written by imbeciles. The TSA however... to be fair some of them have actually managed to color their book decently. The rest overdraws every line.
a few years ago i was flying back to germany from turkey after a family visit, and had a few extra bags for books etc. i forgot that in one of the bags there was a map of munster where someone had drawn directions to a certain shop. i was picked for random search, and after they fumbled around for a bit, they found this little map. i thought i was going to get arrested right then and there, and get questioned for hours. turns out german border police is intelligent and understands a sensible explanation when they hear one - the absence of skyscrapers in munster also helped.
I have flown a couple of times to Europe after the 9/11 madness. I have found the following airports to be sane: UK (BA) and Germany (Lufthansa ).
Stark contrast with the Dutch (KLM). We were instructed to get a full 2 hours before departure to the boarding gate, were they proceeded to line us up (no consideration for eledery, pregnant or even baby carrying mothers) for a SECOND inspection before being allowed to board the plane. After standing one hour in line they finally finished their sweep and then they were kind enough to allow us in. The folks carrying the inspection were somber and border line rude. No "please"s or "thank you"s were ever exchanged.
About 3 years ago I went to Japan with my Japanese gf. While there I bought 4 bottles of quality sake. We packed them in our luggage and when we went through security at the Tokyo airport the x-ray saw the bottles.
The security guard (in Japanese) asked what it was. My gf explained it was sake. He said we were supposed to carry it with us on the plane. The thoughts of unpacking our luggage and lugging 4 big bottles of sake around ran through my mind.
He smiled and said he would let it slide this time and asked us to remember to have it as carry on next time. He then bowed and apologized for causing us an inconvenience.
Compare that to going through the San Francisco airport (just a layover on the way back to Canada). Suspicious guards. Frowning. Questions about where we were .. why we were in the USA. Etc.
I now officially refuse to fly through the US.
I now officially refuse to fly through the US.
Woot! it's working!
First we got them off our lawn, now we get them out of our country...and I didn't even have to use the hose!
And my tourist dollars with it.
I don't think the US economy can handle too many more hits.
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On behalf of the shrinking contingent of rational Americans, I humbly apologize for your treatment.
I love my American friends, and I truly yearn for the America that I know, of the 80's and 90's, before the lunatics completely took over. A pity, because I really do love some parts of the country, but I can't see myself putting up with the jackboot just for a little blue sky ..
Oddly enough, it's the people that you so liked in the 80's and 90's that voted in the people deploying the jackboots because they were so use to living free of fear that 9/11 became the rallying cry to the growth of the executive.
Except for the first World Trade Center bombing, the acts of terror in this time frame in the United States were perpetrated by citizens of the United States - abortion clinic bombings, Oklahoma City, the Centennial Park bombing, and the Unabomber. When the attackers started coming from places that the people didn't understand, overreaction, paranoia, and racism/ethnocentrism took over.
And that's bad for everyone.
What amazes me all the time, is that Swiss security for example continually finds my nail clippers and other 'small weapons' after I passed with them through TSA security several times before!
Do you know how much a of a shitstorm of death and carnage you could unleash with nail clippers!?
My GOD! What a slow painful death that would be!
I flew to Geneva last year and nobody even looked at my passport. I went back and forth to France several times and the only time I even talked to anyone was when I got back in the US.
Yes, and in my experience, they just let you take them on the plane with you, too. Because they are, y'know, not insane.
My family left California two weeks before I was due to leave back to the UK, and my dad unknowingly left a 12 inch lighter (novelty) in one of my bags. I didn't know it was there either until I opened my bags back at home (in a small hidden pocket)... the thing is, I didn't get stopped by either country's security.
A few months after 9/11, I was flying back to college and accidentally took a couple of packets of Black Cats in my purse. I did not get stopped for that, but TAS did detain me in the airport, trying to get me to remove my backbrace (I had a broken back) for "security reasons." Fortunately, my mother was escorting me, and insisted that they have a physician present in order to remove my orthopedic device. They backed off.
I wonder what would happen if Hawking went to the Airport.
He would be tazed for having a suspicious voice.
Hawking doesn't use airports. His helicopter chair needs no runways.
He would use his mind to leave them gibbering wrecks.
Yeah, in the USA the TSA is absolutely over the top STUPID.
I remember flying out of Alaska, (back to the mainland), in the mid 1980's. They had just installed metal detectors at the Anchorage airport.
I had to take my Bowie knife, (8 inch blade at least), off of my belt and put in on the tray so that I could walk through the detector without setting it off.
The attendant, picked up the knife, walked around the detector and handed it back to me. I strapped it back on and boarded the plane. No problem.
Ah, the age of innocence
now thats a knife
I love how it's not enough to simply not be a terrorist anymore, you have to actually make an effort to look as un-terroristy as possible. What's next? I'm a suspect because I have a different color socks than most tourists?
I'm a suspect because I have a different color skin than most tourists?
FIFY
and yes...
No, you broke it for me. My point was to suggest what was next, not what's been policy for decades already. Picking out brown skinned people in the line is barely even controversial anymore, but picking out people with brown socks might be :)
My personal belief is that the TSA is being used as a mechanism to enforce social standards on all input into the country. I don't know who is behind it, but I really think that its a huge psy-op, frankly.. and really, what better place to drop a psy-op package than the main processing node of the US' interface with the rest of the world?
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Thank you for reminding me why I don't ever plan on going to the US.
Damn, I once forgot a Swiss Army knife at the bottom of a carry-on luggage and the security asshole here in Brasil said the procedure was to dispose of it. He was even kind enough to dispose of it in a nearby trash can, so I could hear the "thud" of my little army knife I had since I was 9 years old.
I accidentally left my pocket knife in my carry-on on a return flight from Finland in March 2002 - just six months after 9/11. They didn't even take me aside or ask for money, they just put it in a little box right there at security, put a label on it, and sent it off to checked luggage.
My friend drove to Florida to go camping with some friends and had his car totaled in a storm. He had to fly back home and forgot he had a 2 inch knife in his bag. He got handcuffed and arrested then spent the night in jail and had to get bailed out.
I was flying to the U.S. a few years ago (pre-9/11), via St. Louis. My mistake, I now never (a) fly with American air carriers, or (b) take trips with unecessary stopovers inside the U.S.
Naturally, during the idiotic you-must-pick-up-your-luggage-at-first-point-of-entry-in-the-U.S. stop, I'm waiting for my bags at the carousel; naturally they've lost my suitcase (turned out they'd sent it to Singapore instead of San Francisco-via-St.-Louis.)
After everyone's left and I'm wandering around the hall looking like a complete goober, this fat squat little troll-thing woman waddles up to me. Hideous scrunchy-face, gut barely constrained by too-short ill-fitting polyester pants, pseudo-badge, pure undiluted attitude dripping from every pore.
"Sir, what are you doing?"
"Uh, I'm waiting for my luggage."
"I'll need to see some ID" (I have grown to loathe that phrase coming from English-speakers in any position of perceived or real authority -- for some reason, I only get it in the U.S. ("I need you to sit down", "I need you to kiss my ass.") I'm a pretty friendly guy, plus I didn't know better, so out comes the passport.
She looks me over (I'm dressed tidily in a black trenchcoat, blue button-down shirt, khakis and boat shoes shaved, neat hair, carrying a laptop bag) and asks me "why are you here? Business or pleasure?" -- "pleasure" (I'm visiting family.)
Then, the kicker, as she snaps at me:
"So why are you wearing business clothing?"
....
speechless.
"Because I'm a well-dressed individual .. now answer me this: are you a security guard or are you on the way to the gym?"
That roly poly she-oaf hadn't seen a gym in all the years since it'd escaped from the breeding complex.
Upvoted for, well...everything.
"SHE-OAF SMASH YOUR CIVIL LIBERTIES!"
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so did they detain you or anything? what happened?
Nothing, she just made a vague "humph" noise after mustering me from head to toe (well, more like from chest to toe, because the short little turd had clearly had too much neck-fat to let her tilt her head back far enough...) and waddled off.
roly poly she-oaf
Well said.
boat shoes and a black trench coat? clearly you're up to some shenanigans sir!
naturally
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Good to know that pilots trump airport security.
An airline Captain is the absolute, ultimate, final authority when it comes to his flight and the passengers on it. It's not unusual to see that extend to the gate, and I'm glad he asserted his position in this case.
I don't think he has any actual authority in an airport terminal. He may outrank a lower-level employee of his company (say a baggage attendant or CSR), but I'm pretty sure the employees of the airport are in charge, not some random airline. I would expect they listen to him and treat him with respect, though.
Since the article doesn't specify whom the "security person" works for, it's hard to say what authority the pilot has. If the person was a TSA employee, then technically the pilot has no control in that kind of situation. However, if the presented story is in fact true and complete, then no matter whom the security person worked for, common sense won the day. Furthermore, action should probably be taken to ensure the person no longer works in any kind of security capacity.
Even if the pilot wasn't officially invested with some authority over a security guard, pilots have a certain air about them. He used his Jedi authority.
The shitbags who work security are cowed by a uniform and officious attitude. Try it next time.
Remind me to wear a pilot's uniform next time I go to the airport.
Let us know how that goes over :)
It worked in Catch Me If You Can
I know captains being dumped on for carrying n ail scissors through security or a bottle of water even though they are flying the damn plane.
In the time since 9/11, pilots have been far worse jackasses than any TSA employee, booting brown people off the plane for absolutely no reason, and never facing any consequences because of this absolute authority you speak of.
Absolute authority breeds idiocy, and pilots are no exception.
I can't and won't deny that there are bigoted pilots out there. I can't and won't deny that airline Captains have delayed flights or rejected passengers for inappropriate reasons. I don't make any attempt to apologize for those individuals. It's absolutely not appropriate to delay a flight or disallow a passenger due to their skin color, their garb, etc.
However, I absolutely take issue with the idea that pilots have been worse jackasses than the TSA folks.
It takes many years to achieve a position of Captain (i.e. left seat, "the pilot") at any commercial passenger airline. Becoming a Captain at a commercial carrier involves thousands of hours of training. You have to earn a lot of tickets, you have to be type rated on the aircraft you're going to fly, you have to pass strict medicals, you have to be in the simulator forever, and above all else, you have to be checked out for your Operating Experience by your airline.
The bottom line is that airline pilotship isn't a job, it's a life. If you lose your routes or you're furloughed, your entire livelihood goes away immediately. The men and women who fly passenger aircraft in the United States have everything to lose at the slightest fuckup. They invest everything they own, and ever will own, into their careers. A single slip and they're done. And that's how it should be, considering what's at stake.
That said, while there may be some racist or otherwise bigoted Captains out there, they're the absolute bare fucking minimum, and nobody in the industry wants them participating. If you've had a bad experience with a pilot, report it to the airline immediately. Reporting to TSA isn't going to do any good, they don't care; the airline does.
yes... but their stamina is way lower.
Unless he puts on his robe and wizards hat.
Fire mage as pilot or frost?
Next time I fly, I'll dress up as a pilot.
Only in the way that any good lawyer would trump a jobsworth twat.
[deleted]
Its like a Monty Python skit:
"Luggage can't be left unattended"
"I am attending it"
"SOME BODY needs to be in possession of the luggage"
"I AM attending it"
"SOME BODY (long pause) needs to be attending the luggage"
"I AM ATTENDING MY LUGGAGE!!"
"Sir, Sir, SIR, you don't understand, luggage can't be unattended"
"JESUS-FUCKING-CHRIST, IT'S LIKE -- IT'S LIKE I'M AT THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS OR SOMETHING"
"Mr President, you need to settle down, sir"
I was thinking more Basil Fawlty:
"I'm attending to it, you stupid git!!! I mean what's the bloody point of me sitting on the luggage if I'm not attending to it, I mean really!!! Who do you think I'm trying to be? Henry Kissinger?!?"
que?
Yo dawg, you need to settle before I get all medieval on your ass.
That's exactly what i was thinking too. It really reminded me of the dead parrot sketch for some reason.
Osama wins another one
What do the handicapped have against AMUURICA!?
The handicapped took our JERRRRBS!
The handicapped took our JEEEEAAAAAOOOOOORRRRRBBBSS!!
FTFY.
User for 3 hours.
Well played, my good man.
If we don't discriminate against disabled people the terrorists have already one!
dude died a long time ago
Good point.
we were going through the metal detectors at DFW airport this past winter. And the guard at the beginning of the line said only two carry-ons per person allowed on the plane. And I said yea that's what I have, and she said no you have 4, to which I replied I am carrying my mom's two because she can't carry them. She tried counting (to see if I was lying?!?!?) but just couldn't figure it out, and then proceeded to make us hold up the whole line so I could give two bags to my mom. As soon as we got past her, I took both bags from my mom right in front of the guard and just moved on muttering "dumbass ho" under my breath. Hope she heard me.
You sure showed her - she'll never repeat her mistake now she knows to expect a lame insult.
yea it was pretty lame but I try to control what I say audibly when I am around my parents.
yeah be careful with with saying stuff like that, those assholes are worse than cops and can really fuck up your day.
Fellow passengers can fuck up your day just as bad, at least with security's cooperation. Although normally they don't unless you're the wrong skin color.
In that case it's best to remain silent. But not too silent - you don't want people to think you could be praying.
[deleted]
Yo dawg....
I don't understand what he's going to put into itself for this to be funny.
I'm usually able to pick up the "Yo Dawgs", but I feel really lost here....
Yo dawg, I hear you like politely carrying your mom's bags for your moms, so I put some ignorant security detail in your airport so they can burden your old mom while you fume with impotent rage?
I think he was implying "just stuff 2 of the carry-ons into the other 2 carryons, problem solved"....?
Good call...
+1 internets for you.
It's a form of torrets with some posters. Other examples include: Fake! Pixels! Shopped!
A while ago I flew back from Japan to Australia. I'd bought a stainless steel meat cleaver as a present. It had engravings on it and was sort of ceremonial, but still scary looking. I completely forgot about it when I got to the Tokyo airport until the check-in lady asked me if I had anything to declare. I tried to explain the meat cleaver but her English was even worse than my Japanese so eventually I said "no". It seemed easier than continuing the dialogue.
When I got to Australia the customs inspector pulled out this meat cleaver and said "how the fuck did you get this onboard". I shrugged. He laughed. I continued on my travels.
This was all pre-9/11. I reckon if I'd done something similar these days I'd be writing this post from the prison's Internet machine.
I bought a sword in Croatia but it was too long to actually fit in my luggage. At the Venice airport they kept bouncing me back and forth between bag check and security, trying to figure out how they were going to handle it. Eventually, the ticketing lady put a big yellow sticker that said "approved cabin baggage" on my 3-foot sword. This was pre 9-11, obviously.
I always wondered how uma thurman got her katana on the airplane...
Dude, you would be in Guantanamo and no one would have any trace of you.
And now I need to fly to Australia!
I'm also reminded of my pre-9/11 flight from Las Vegas to Toronto. It was a Sunday, and the only person in the entire security area was a screening guard. My friends and I were all ready to stick our carry-ons on the belt, but he told us to just walk through the metal detector with it all. When it inevitably went off, he said not to worry and just ushered us out.
To this day I wish I was smuggling more than just cactus seeds.
I imagined a "prison internet machine" to look something like a rusty 1970's nautilus, with a spiked collar on a chain attached to the top.
We bought a few kitchen knives in Japan post 9/11 and flew with them in our checked luggage through Malasia, and back to Australia. I had read the rules before buying them and if they are 'kitchen items' then they are okay. If it looks too much like a weapon then you can get in trouble, but AFAIK travelling with kitchen items is still okay.
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Airport security? Long story. I elected to quit flying rather than be treated like a real terrorist suspect.
Don't drive much either. Too many cameras and cops wanting to give a ticket.
So I worry about them coming into my home now. After all, I do have some adult porn.
Country went nuts.
Rorschach's Journal:
Airport security? Long story. Quit flying rather than be treated like terrorist.
Don't drive either. Too many cameras and cops.
I worry about them coming into my home now.
After all, I do have some adult porn.
Country went nuts.
That was so much better in Rorschachs voice
Rorschach wouldn't touch porn without a flame-thrower.
... After all, I do have some, sensitive material. Country went nuts.
you also have a spare comma, can I have one please?
Rorschach wouldn't touch porn with a flame-thrower.
Funnier imo
You forgot the "Hurm"
views porn
"Hurm."
applies makeshift flamethrower
I have pornographic movies in my apartment, and lubricants, and amyl nitrite
Thank you Chloe... let's everyone thank Chloe.
slide
Throust
"OK! This particular individual is unscannable!"
You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
Don't worry, scrote. There's plenty of 'tards out there living really kickass lives.
OK sir, you are being detained. Please come along with being detained, sir.
Security guy : "Shut up talking suitcase, I don't want to talk to you anymore, you are unattended"
Reminds me of the talking can of vegetables from Wet Hot American Summer
What was the name of that game from a long time ago (not mario brothers) about a mage in training in an academy that had a talking wardrobe/suitcase that followed him everywhere? I remember it was really humorous.
Idiots with a sense of purpose. This is why the country sucks.
I think its a sense of authority, rather than purpose... or purpose through authority...
I have a mission. A mission to protect the airport. If a bag is unattended, it must be taken away. Simple as that. What does unattended mean? Who cares. It seems like it means "being held". I'm not a dummy. I'm a reasonably smart guy. This is just a temporary job. But while I've got it, I gotta do it. Gotta save the airport. Gotta defeat terrorists. Gotta do my job.
In your training, we tried to take the abstract concept of "unattended", and bring it into your concrete reality.
We did our best to make you clever.
We know the airport gets crowded. So we told you that a bag may not always belong to the person nearby.
Near != Attended
We know that a person planting a bomb will act like they own the bag, and then run off before it explodes. So we told you not to assume the bag is attended just because you saw who it belongs to.
Ownership != Attended
We told you that there are some reliable ways to know that the bag is being attended, such as a person holding the bag's handle.
Holding the handle = Attended
It didn't occur to us to mention: Children sitting on top of bags, wheelchairs parked beside bags, people with thier feet propped up on bags, etc.
So, if some random child sits on me, I am now attended? This happens more than you might think.
<extends tongue> pant, pant, pant
Making $12 an hour, good money.
I just read that comment as the lyrics to a David Byrne song. Good form.
I heard it in the voice of officer Rod Farva from Super Troopers. Seemed even more appropriate...
Yeah, it's weird how some people get so much pleasure out of self-righteously following someone elses plan. sense of purpose... peh!
People suck, regardless of country. The world is full of idiots with a sense of purpose.
[deleted]
The fact is that in other countries, idiots don't get jobs that they're not mentally qualified for. At least not at the rate at which they do in this country.
Yes, because certainly police officers in Angola are more closely screened for mental/emotional accuity than they are in the US.
Face it: positions of authority will be abused because they are held by people. People make dumb decisions, and are quite often assholes. Especially when they feel entitled. Location is irrelevant.
I haven't found that to be the case. What countries specifically are you referring to?
It sounds like this might have been a variation on the those porter scammers. The luggage porters work for tips and load up the luggage before you can stop them. Then they basically move it 50 feet to the cab and demand a tip. They must have figured the dud in the wheelchair was an easy mark and wouldn't be able to move his own luggage.
That happened to me at Port Authority in NYC several years ago. My dad just dropped me off and I was headed to the gate for my bus back to school. Three steps into the building and this guy comes and takes my rolly bag and asks where I'm going. At first I thought he was a security guard (he was dressed in what looked like a uniform) so I tell him and he starts walking off. When I realized what was going on I thought to tell him that I could manage, but was too polite/shy back then. The ironic part was that he didn't know the way to the gate and we spent an extra ten minutes circling around as he asked directions. Ended up giving him 2$ for wasting my time. At least he wasn't rude about it.
I understand that these people probably just want to make some extra cash but never again. Next time that happens, I'm just going to politely ask them get thier hands off my shit and if they dont, start screaming thief.
Yeah pretty much no one in NYC, at least at the common destinations, is there to help.
Cops in times square, anyone anywhere in the port authority, JFK and Laguardia +/- one mile... 99% of the time, you'd be better off to just keep moving.
At least until you're half way across New Jersey.
And even then, don't stop for anything but the Italian food and the bagels.
I wouldn't stop anywhere in NJ, TBH.
You can make it through NJ without stopping? What, are you on a motorcycle?
(coughtrafficjokecough)
That's a scam? I thought those guys were poor, overeager laborers who hung out at the airport and were so desperate for work they'd load up your luggage without asking and risk not getting paid.
Like Nigerian scammers are just poor, overeager laborers who send out mail without asking and risk not getting paid.
Except Nigerian emailers provide you nothing in return. At least the people in the original example actually did move your bags (albeit only 50 feet, but still, they actually did do something).
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You're doing it wrong. First, you need on board air. An electric or mechanical compressor linked to an optional air tank will allow to air up four 33" tires in under 6 minutes. You can also run air tools for those inevitable trail repairs that you will need to perform like broken axle shafts, damaged or broken tie rods, even the occasional body repair.
I have used it countless times while offroad and have even used it to help several disabled motorists. Between this and a tire plug kit, you probably wouldn't even need to mount the spare after a puncture!
[deleted]
explanation
I once queued at airport security with a half-empty small bottle of water in my hand. When I got past the scanner they said I can't take that on board, because it's a liquid. So I said, no problem I'll drink it up. They refused to let me drink up the water there and made me go out again to drink up the water at the back of the queue, to then wait at the queue again, and walk through security again. Fucking morons. I should have asked to speak to the guy's superior. Why do I only think of these things afterwards? It's sort of l'esprit de l'escalier.
Upvoted for l'esprit de l'escalier - people always love when I explain that to them.
Well the jerk store called and they're running out of you!
Why am I a jerk?
Unless you're referring to the food, in which case I agree that I am hot and delicious.
I was citing an example of l'esprit de l'escalier from the popular television sitcom Seinfeld where George flies to another city to deliver that stairway wit line.
It's an example of l'esprit de l'escalier from Seinfeld.
Fortunately, here, all our l'esprit de l'escalier problems are a thing of the past. Thanks, edit button!
I always love it when people condescendingly try to explain that to me (and provide a convenient wikipedia link) when I already know what it means.
The beauty of hypertext is that smart people like you don't have to follow the link, but it's there for anyone who's clearly much more stupid than you, because intelligence is exclusively determined by knowledge of French loan words and phrases.
I never claimed to be smart, I just sort of asked for people to put an end to the condescending douchebaggery in a sarcastic way.
Upmodded for teaching me something new.
My fav to hear over the loud speaker at an airport " do not make jokes or comments about our security as this will be taken as a security threat and you can be arrested"
I'm always chosen for special "inspection" and asked stupid questions over and over.
I must be on the shitlist somewhere
I feel ya there man. I have no idea why, but for some reason, about 90% of the time, I am selected for "random" security screenings. I know they do profiling in their bullshit random screenings, but what profile does "skinny white guy playing Crayon Physics on a laptop" fall under?
You could use your fancy "physics" to make a "bomb" you terrorist.
I've got used to it, now when they ask me to go to special inspection I just explain to them that I am used to it.
My story goes " I am used to this, I know you will ask me the same questions over and over , I always answer the same , so no point"
Usually they say ok sir, no problem, then i sign a clip board and leave, Then im sent to the inspection room, i explain the same to them and im out
The only major difference between us is that you are skinny. I assume thats the problem. They are probably afraid you can get in tight spaces where the TSA agents cant reach you.
It's probably because you have one of those "random faces".
At least security guards don't fingerprint the children in your family.
That is true. Every time I think about how fucked up our country can be, I say to myself, at least we're not the UK.
Brits, take note. I am properly shamed by the anecdotes told on this page. And yet I can still comfortably feel holier-than-thou in this realm.
Oh no, it was when we were entering the USA that the children were fingerprinted, and we were interrogated as to our whereabouts for the last 10 years, and if any of these places were Iran (we are mixed race).
Fuck.
" do not make jokes or comments about our security as this will be taken as a security threat and you can be arrested"
Really? So we forfeit our 1st amendment right when we are in an Airport. I put my headphones in once I clear security and don't take them off until I leave the airport. Thank goodness I never hear such horseshit.
I highly doubt you could make a 1st amendment case better than you could make a "Are you fucking with me?" case. It's probably be covered under the Fire in a Crowded Theater scenario.
Now I am not saying running around and screaming I have a bomb or something absurd like that. I have never heard the line n0pe mentioned, but it sounds like I can't even comment about security or those administering it.
I make off hand comments all the time; I am very opinionated (Asshole). I revel in it like a pig wallowing in its own filth. With that being made clear, that would mean that if some fatass guard goes by me on one those 3 wheeled segway things and I call them out for being a lazy fuck I can be arrested.
Good thing I keep my headphones in while I am at the airport.
you forfeit ALL your rights once you step through those doors. airports are a weird legal situation as far as real estate goes.
really, that's interesting, I am glad I keep my mouth shut and my headphones on.
Really? I've been told on the airplane that I MUST remove my headphones while the announcements are being made. Even after I showed the flight attendant that they weren't even connected to anything, the wire just was dangling inside my jacket. I only wear them so other people won't talk to me or I can pretend not to hear them if they do.
They have never asked me directly to remove them, they make the general announcement about it but I ignore it. If they plane is going down I figure I'm fucked.
I used to fly to Chicago twice a month for work. Usually a one way ticket bought at the airport. Guaranteed security check.
I got to like it though. The special security screening area at Midway airport never has a line. I was always through security way faster than if I hadn't been singled out.
it sounds like the guard was the living definition of a meat head.
Doesn't that make you feel safer?
I think all the TSA agent should pass a IQ test to have a mimimum score of 50.
You'd accidentally the whole Department.
If you accidentally that whole fucking department, you'd be my new hero.
Ron Paul.
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What ended up happening was the private people got hired on as the federal people.
50? Do you know where that would put them?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/IQ_scale_rates
IQ Scale
Over 140 - Genius or almost genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence
Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness
Normal Distribution of IQ Scores
50% of IQ scores fall between 90 and 110
70% of IQ scores fall between 85 and 115
95% of IQ scores fall between 70 and 130
99.5% of IQ scores fall between 60 and 140
Low IQ & Mental Retardation
An IQ under 70 is considered as "mental retardation" or limited mental ability. 5% of the population falls below 70 on IQ tests. The severity of the mental retardation is commonly broken into 4 levels:
50-70 - Mild mental retardation (85%)
35-50 - Moderate mental retardation (10%)
20-35 - Severe mental retardation (4%)
IQ < 20 - Profound mental retardation (1%)
High IQ & Genius IQ
Genius or near-genius IQ is considered to start around 140 to 145. Less than 1/4 of 1 percent fall into this category. Here are some common designations on the IQ scale:
115-124 - Above average
125-134 - Gifted
135-144 - Very gifted
145-164 - Genius
165-179 - High genius
180-200 - Highest genius
50? Do you know where that would put them?
Still higher than what they have now.
A wikipedia link regarding IQ? My head asplode! You might as well be singing about moonbeams.
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For something like an established chart of facts Wikipedia is ideal.
But the whole "IQ" thing isn't what I'd call established fact. It's a hokey religion and I prefer a blaster.
Yes, it was a joke, he is saying they are all tarded.
[deleted]
It would put them about 51 points higher then our elected officials in DC.
then? Don't you mean than?
Shut up, Ted Haggard.
Damn, 2 points short of being genius. I feel so empty now.
The IQ scale becomes less and less precise as you get to the outer ranges. So the difference between 143 and 145 is meaningless.
"The IQ is, at best, a rough measure of academic intelligence. It certainly would be unscientific to say that an individual with an IQ of 110 is of high average intelligence, while an individual with an IQ of 109 is of only average intelligence. Such a strict classification of intellectual abilities would fail to take account of social elements such as home, school, and community. These elements are not adequately measured by present intelligence tests. Furthermore, it would not take account of the fact that an individual may vary in his test score from one test to another."
When I was in high school I tested at 174 which I thought was fantastic... until my best friend scored 178. He hasn't let me forget it.
Naturally I'm almost 40 now which means I'm a lot dumber.
Your IQ dropped 134 points? Damn.
Or is '40' referring to age?
There is no cure for your condition, the best we can do is treat the symptoms. I recommend you stay away from comments on 'Youtube' and stay away from cats if they have captions.
Who with an IQ that high could face themselves in the mirror at the end of the day doing that fucking job?
Lots of people would be very happy being a TSA worker as long as the job didn't require them to do stupid things blindly without using their judgement, wasn't staffed with the most incompetent people on the planet, and paid a decent wage.
[Do you do] stupid things blindly without using [your] judgment?
I think that's one of the application questions before they even get interviewed. =(
Just wait till he gets to the metal detectors.
Excuse me sir, I'm going to need you to step out of the wheel chair and x-ray it.
Yep. Happens all of the time. "Please walk here without your crutches sir".
Yep, happened to me. "Please hop through the metal detector and air puffer."
They made me get my sleeping infant out of his car seat to scan it. I was like, "Can't he just stay in the car seat? Hey, maybe I'm smuggling drugs inside his diaper, x-ray him!" They were not amused.
I flew to a different state with my daughter. I had to pee right when we got off the plane so I told her to sit on our suitcase and wait outside the men's room. She knows the whole bit about screaming bloody murder if someone is scaring her with words or actions. So I pee and start washing my hands when I hear her screaming. I run out the doorway and security is trying to pull the suitcase out from under her and telling her to get up.
There's no worse feeling in the world than knowing you will get tasered, gang-tackled, and/or arrested for reacting how a normal human being should react in that situation.
I said "what are you do to my daughter?!". One of the officers replied "this bag was unattended so we need to inspect it". I said "Unattended?! You can't even get it away from my kid. This is the most fucking attended bag in the airport!" At that point, they questioned whether she was even my kid or not (she's adopted and has different skin color).
Fortunately they didn't drag us back into their dungeon and finally told us to move along when the crowd grew bigger. Some lady in the crowd was ranting about how they were dragging a little girl around the terminal (they only rolled her a couple feet when she was sitting on the suitcase).
+LOL "the most fucking attended bag in the airport!"
[deleted]
That was perfect for me. I'm very high and forgot what I read. It was the perfect time for a reminder!
Heh, me too. I'm high about half the time I'm on reddit. It's the only time I ever get upvotes.
*See?
Do you consider yourself to be a moral person?
Thank you for reminding me that LOL is, in fact, an acronym.
I was actually looking for an acronym....and some brownies.
+ROFL "HAHAHAHA, i just read that. Thanks for repeating it and adding an acronym in front."
[deleted]
Thanks for drawing even more attention to it.. Now I get it.
I thought that was the funniest part also.
They REALLY need to institute IQ testing for TSA employees. Well, either that or get rid of the TSA.
Ohh.. I'd like option 2 please!
Oh god yes. Can you imagine the assholes in airport security... but smarter and cunning about their assholeness?
No, but I can imagine then like they are at Schiphol in the Netherlands: serious, fair and calm.
Damn it, I wish I could find the Carlin bit on Airport security so I can link it. I can think of nothing more appropriate at the moment
[deleted]
Will you please calm down sir. Bzzzzzzzt! I told you to calm down. Bzzzzzt. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.
Hey, that guy is still aggressively shaking and falling towards us, hit him again...
Dear god no, don't unleash them all on society - keep them all in one place..
.. well two places.. let's not forget DMVs
Also, as an Australian, I think it's important for you guys to know that this is not a US problem, this is a universal problem. Transport/Customs and Motor Vehicle Authorities suck all around the world.
The experience varies from country to country (and from different loacations within countries). The problem is not limited to the US, but it tends to be much more noticeable there than in many other countries.
It's not a problem in South Africa. Our airport security staff do their jobs well and don't harass passengers unnecessarily. This is a big thanks to all the ZA airport security staff!
Option 1 would ensure option 2.
It's not IQ so much as it is bigotry. A lot of people just don't think of kids or the disabled as full on people, and instead treat them like furniture.
Bigotry and stupidity are very strongly correlated.
Never attribute to malice, etc. etc.
True, but I found it much easier to simply attack their intelligence. =D
You are correct though. It comes down to callousness and/or an overweening sense of absolute moral superiority.
They have IQ testing. If you pass, you don't get the job.
that would require a rise in wages… these uniformed grunts are just the left-overs in the workforce really…
And police school.
Thousands Standing Around.
Not exactly standing around... they tend to be actively harassing people.
It would have the same effect.
If they instituted IQ testing that would be the end of the TSA.
It stands for "Totally Stupid Asswipes," afterall.
Reason No. 3945 to punch your local TSA agent in the face.
[deleted]
Because the TSA agent is the one who is creating the ridiculous policies? They just do what they're told, with no room for personal interpretation or initiative.
If you're going to punch someone in the face, make sure you're aiming appropriately.
Redundant, the former implies the latter.
bonehead move, i know, but since there was a two bag/one carry on limit coming home from atlanta to chicago, i put my portable dvd player in one of my suitcases. i watched it through the scanner, watched them take the dvd player out, zip the bag up, and put it on the conveyor, neglecting that i never saw the dvd player go back in the bag. i called soon after landing and talked to everyone i could think of, but there's no lost and found or any other system for reclaiming these things....not that i'm really surprised.
Most law enforcement jobs require an intellect and psych test. There are actual limits on how SMART you can be to get the job.
Seriously. I flunked a city cop test for being too smart. Here's the thing - I was 21 at the time and I thank God often for them keeping me out.
I've heard about that several times. As a paramedic, I'm a civil service employee myself and no one gets barred from being a paramedic due to being too smart.
But it happens in cop-land all the time.
Paramedics and cops are like matter and anti-matter here in Dallas.
[deleted]
I think they already do. It's just that they are not discriminating those with low IQ.
How about letting airline passengers carry the tasers.
ROFL. Are you willing to do it? For the pay that they can offer?
You don't understand. There aren't enough smart people in the country to fill these crappy jobs.
And common sense, too. Let's not forget that.
+1 for the nice work training your daughter ahead of time for just such a situation.
I concur. Awesome kid. Hope she got a nice reward for that.
[deleted]
...if you know what i mean.
Bad, bad man
No, I'm not sure if I know what you mean. Elaborate, please.
it was funny, but i cannot upvote, so i'll leave this message instead of downvoting.
+1 for adoption
aka, I know your pain. My son is mixed race and adopted, and I've been accused of trying to abduct him in the past. My son thought it was hilarious...'But that's my daddy!' he said, laughing. I carry family photos now, but I shouldn't have to. And may god help any security guard who tries to intimidate my children.
That is very unamerican; you should know better.
That's very sarcastic; you should.... Oh, nevermind.
You sarcastic son of a gun.
Yet another remnant of Bush World.
Bush is gone. I may be a bit early, but certainly not ridiculously early in saying this ... but it's time to blame our current government for any shortcomings. We have a Democratic congress, senate, and executive. If the TSA sucks, the war rages on, and grandmas die in drug raids in 2009/2010 ... take a guess who's fault that is.
I'll even give you two guesses, since you might get the first guess wrong. :p
You are too early. Expecting Obama to correct 8 years of mistakes in two months is stupid. The present admin didn't create the TSA, but you are blaming them? What you expect Obama to completely dismantle the TSA in his first two months in office? End both wars in two months? 8 years of raping the constitution takes time to clean up.
Bold for emphasis, and upvoted since I had a couple replies like this. Hopefully it clears up my point.
All I'm asking is people are willing to revisit their 2008 positions say ... 6-12 months from now, after a complete session of government where damn near anything they want to do can be done with impunity.
The question is will the people remember that the neocons started it or go back to voting them into office.
Hell no. You can't even get people fresh out of college over the past 5 years or so to admit that the parties were in the process of massive change in their very lifetimes. It isn't just them either ...
There are 60 year olds walking around the Bay Area today who you couldn't get to say that the parties might one day soon be very different, and their grandchildren may end up voting for GOP politicians as the morally right choice. These people who marched on the '68 DNC, hung around Yippies who literally bombed the pentagon and politicians because of Democrat policy, and saw Democrats in power responsible for Vietnam, shooting children to death at Kent State, etc.
While in the midst of it, they vowed to "never again" vote Democrat. Then, from the mid-60's to mid-70's the neoconservatives left the Democratic Party en masse. Within a few short years, the political landscape had changed more than any time since the 1930's.
People can either take this with a grain of salt because it's said by a Ron Paul Republican, or as an informed opinion, being as close to the process as I am. Background is needed here. I'm in the county GOP executive committee now, the whole nine. It's extremely hard for people who didn't support Paul to make the mental leap from the hordes who accomplished nothing as novices with the exception of winning online polls ... into the more experienced group that has a rock solid >49% hold on local GOP committees depending on location. In my location, The Orlando committee came 2 votes away from literally taking over the central Florida GOP. In Brevard county, a member of the campaign for liberty was elected to the county commission, and another as clerk of courts. The REC is 1/3 controlled by the Campaign for Liberty members. This is all just my personal area, and this is really going on nationwide. It's boring local politics, so it isn't discussed much. Even among supporters in a place like this. It's boring, and it's understood no one cares.
Now for the main point. I'm saying this because I believe that liberal and conservative, most of us have a greater interest in making sure the neoconservatives are defeated as a belief system. It's important Democrats pay attention to me here, even though I disagree with many of them obviously. Because of the things described in the above paragraph, neoconservatives, the real ones, not the religious nuts who still are pretty active in the GOP ... the neocons are leaving the party. I'm not able to say what will happen, as it's not some grand scheme. They are just somewhat discouraged by 30 people showing up to the meetings, every time now, for 2 years. it's obvious they aren't going to strong arm them out, the Paul people care too much. They are actually passionate, and see the hijacking of the GOP as an essential moral action. Right or wrong on their part, it's obvious to people there it's hard to deal with, never mind discourage/defeat that. Passionate people don't give up. I see it in every meeting with the people who believe God is making them be involved in politics and issues. They would never give up, even though as a libertarian I disagree with them, I can see they are passionate and will never "give up".
What will neocons end up doing? I don't know. I want to give a serious warning to Democrats though. Your local meetings have zero grassroots presence. Nearly zero attendance comparatively. Your party structure itself makes it harder for average joe to get involved in a meaningful way (votes on party policy).
Still, you have got to attend those meetings, in whatever form you are allowed. It will take some work on your parts, as you don't have a structure like the Campaign for Liberty looking to really move an influx of "troublemakers" into the party. You have to though. You have got to be more vigilant than Republicans in the early 1970's.
If you aren't, you might wake up one day in 2020 as some crazy kid is telling you that Democrats are evil, have always been evil, and the neocons making up the party were never Republicans. The whole idea is crazy they might say.
Republicans in 1964, as they went apeshit during the Goldwater speeches, would have told you the same thing. Just like some Democrats now, there weren't many who would have even take you seriously if you tried telling them that within ten years their party would be entirely lost to a faction who wanted to fight wars all over the world, spend billions of dollars fighting drugs, have a military base in dozens and eventually hundreds of countries and locations around the globe.
You'd have been called insane.
Oh they'll be back. It's very easy to be the opposition in the US. All you have to do is disagree with the majority and wait until people start disliking whatever the majority does, which is all but guaranteed to happen at some point. Since there's only one alternative and they seem to vehemently disagree, they get elected.
Back and forth we go.
And, more importantly, will morons stop trying to blame the last 8 years on Obama's first two months?
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Buh.. buh... Bush?
I'm sorry, I know you meant Buuh- Buuhhh...
Damnit, after so many years of blaming Bush I can't do anything else anymore.
Joe Biden: Father of the Patriot Act.
8 years, two months. Nope, still ridiculously early.
The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act was written in such a way that it will be almost impossible to dismantle. It changed so many laws interactively that sorting it all out will take years if not decades. Chinese Algebra will be a simpler challenge for most law makers to tackle.
Chinese algebra uses Latin characters and Roman numerals. It's really no harder than algebra anywhere else.
Good for you! Fuck the idiot airport "security".
I guess it's heartening that the crowd was on your side.
Wasn't there some incident when a little girl walked onto the jetway (with no plane at the end). The ticket agent tried to stop the father from getting his girl, so the father slammed the agent against the wall. The slam broke his neck and the ticketing agent became a paraplegic. The father was arrested and tried, but acquitted.
I’m adopted and a different race than my family – we look nothing alike. When I was about 11 or so (but looked probably 7) I went to a baseball game with my dad. I wanted something to eat so he placed me in a long concession line right next to the men’s bathroom. He told me he was going to go to the bathroom, stay in line and do not talk to any strangers. Well he comes back fairly quickly but already the line has gotten longer behind me. He comes up to me and asks me if I know what I want to eat. I just looked at him and said, “Umm, I’m not supposed to talk to strangers.” He thought it was funny, at first, and then re-asked the question. Again I said, “Sir, please stop bothering me. My dad told me not to talk to strangers.” By this time people have started to eye my dad and the situation. He kind of nervously laughed and said, “Very funny dear. You know I’m your father.” And I replied, loudly, “Father? You don’t even look like me!?!” He was worried he was going to get beat down or arrested so I cooled it after that. It’s one his favorite stories now though.
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You sound like a horrible person.
That is a great story GirlDuJour!!
yeah, but dont you feel safer now?
I think these cock sacks just enjoy tearing through our luggage and will take whatever they can get their hands on. When I fly back west in June Im seriously tying my bags to my arms.
I would have followed the "did you 'touch' my daughter line".
You need to show proof of parenthood for that child or we're going to have to confiscate it.
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I find it hard to believe these stories. What's going on? Is the TSA keeping stuff they find in airports? Couldn't be that lucrative...
Was the security guard black?
Regardless of color, the security goon was a fucking idiot.
Agreed.
How's that relevant?
I'm trying to determine if the altercation was racially motivated. If the security guard was black, and the kid/parent was white (or other than the guards race), there may have been a discriminatory aspect to this situation.
You're over complicating it... the security guard was a power-hungry jackass, plain and simple.