Now, i know this sounds fucking weird or insane but let me just explain. everyone is a victim, the parents, the dead, the survivor, and the shooter. All of them. if the shooter is in that fucking place in their mind where they have to kill other people then you can only fucking imagine that sort of shit hell they went through on a day to day basis to push them that far.
Posted Apr 7, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC
People need to take responsibility for their actions. If you knowingly commit a crime, You’re not a victim, just a dumb c nt.
thats like calling suicide selfish. you dont know how they feel or the mental hell they go through.
You are generalizing my statement to apply to everyone, (which wasn’t my intent) but then make a statement that implies you know the mindset of every person that commits suicide.
ive known many people who've tried and i myself have and i know what it feels like, im sure its not like this for everyone but i know that it is rarely ever a selfish thing to do and 99.999% of the time its not. as for generalizing what you said, how else was i supposed to take this? you arent saying maybe or possible or probably you are saying exactly as if its entirely generalized.
The things you do in response to that hell define your character. Keep you shit together. If you can't, and someone gets hurt, then you're not a victim anymore. You crossed a selfish line.
have you ever truly wanted to kill you or anyone else? i mean truly wanted to, you felt like you needed to, you had to, theres no other. if not then you have no fucking clue what youre talking about.
Yeah, and I'm not sure why this is the only rationalization that you have. It's a shitty defense for it to be your only one. Plenty of people go through it and hold their shit together. That's a choice you make.
I think the best answer is we will all be victims at some point so of course the shooter was a victim. That doesn't excuse the behaviours of any individual. It doesn't make it right or okay to shoot someone. It doesn't even fix the problems that led to it happening. There are deep issues with both the individual and the system for these things to occur.
yea i know that, and i fully agree. i just mean that they were a victim of another proportion.
Sometimes phrasing it the right way can change how other people react to it
yea sorry, i'm not the best at phrasing it exactly right the first time.
No need for apologies. I completely understand where you are coming from now.
Being depressed is not a choice, killing people is. My empathy goes out to the depressed people who don't go around killing people.
school shooting* sorry for typo
agreed
This is exactly what makes them a perpetrator and not a victim: they do not have to kill anyone, they choose to.
Perhaps they’re a victim of something, but they’re certainly not of a victim of a school shooter.
You have no idea the struggles one can go through in the mind when they lose control of it? It doesn’t give one a right to shoot a school as they should have got help before such event occurred but you have no clue what they went through. Like you have no idea I lost a 2 year old son 6 months ago and have been through hell, I mean hell since then and at times I just lose my shit and get so mad I scare the hell out of people. I have no control over that. I have recently been able to stop it but it’s not for the weak minded to stop that kinda thing. Don’t think you know something when you don’t man. In there heads they have to for some fkd up reason and should have prevented it. But they got blinded somehow. A person with clear thoughts doesn’t shoot a damn school up.
I’ll start by saying that I’m sorry for your loss. I know the pain well of loosing a son, my middle son is a twin (2m, SIDS). There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t think about who his twin would be today.
I believe mental illness has a role to play in someone’s motives, sure. But you don’t need to be mentally ill to shoot up a school and kill people.
It’s disingenuous for me assume to know anyone’s mental health, for any reason as I’m not a psychologist and I doubt you or anyone else here is either.
For someone to assume that a school shooter ‘didn’t have a choice’ or was ‘forced’ to do it, is being sympathetic to the shooter and I have no intentions of debating someone who’s romanticized the idea of ‘why the shooter shot up the school’, there’s no sense in it.
By ignoring the possible motives of the shooter you are ignoring possible ways of preventing future shootings. To me it seems Americans just seem to find it easier calling someone a nutcase because they think or do things differently to them, rather than try to understand the cause and possibly find a solution.
For example if Bullying is found to be a major factor in school shootings, then any bullies who survive should be charged as accessories (with legislative changes if needed) to mass murder and jailed accordingly. If they were just a right/left wing nut then yeah little cause beyond being nuts and no further action. I never understood shitting on the shooters when they are mostly already dead and obviously don't care when you should be trying to find and eliminate the causes and just throwing around the term mentally ill is just laziness and a way to avoid the difficult questions and answers
I’m not ignoring motives at all. I’m ignoring the idea of a school shooter being a victim of a school shooting.
I think that in most cases their own mental shithole does force them into it, but of course not all. and i know you're mostly addressing me in this case, i am empathizing but im not romantizing the idea of it, i think its a terrible thing and should never happen but i think we should also adknoweldge what lead the shooter to do this and why and how they felt they needed to.
I agree that every aspect of the shooters lives and thoughts should be explored and a motive should always be determined in every case because there’s always a motive.
But bullying, lose of family, whatever else, those things don’t justify murdering people at a school. It’s a very dangerous thought to entertain, we know this because of past school shooters were influenced by those who believed murder can be justified in those cases.
Sympathy (at least here) is a synonym for "understanding." Which means you are refusing to debate anyone who is tried to be understanding as to what a school shooters motives are, probably because you're intensely uncomfortable with understanding these sort of things, because it makes it harder to demonize them, and makes you have to deal with the fact that morality is far more complicated than the "good guy/bad guy" narratives everyone from the government to nearly every movie or tv show ever made as fed us. It's easier to blame things on a single tangible enemy than to admit things are influenced by countless interwoven forces we can barely understand.
TL;DR
People don't want to deal with the complexities of real life.
Also, I feel like, by definition, someone who shoots up a school is mentally ill. Defining mental illness as "a mental state that strongly deviates from the norm in a way that is seriously harmful." This is so obvious, I don't understand why this isn't just taken as common sense nowadays.
Lmao, okay here we go. Sympathy (in this instance) is a synonym for Compassion.
Well, that was a bunch bullshit I wish I could unread. You don’t need to get triggered by opinions, but you do need to make a coherent argument if you’re going to make an argument.
That’s a dumbass definition, but probably on purpose. By that definition, Religion/Race/Sex/Class can be included with being mentally ill. This probably why smarter people than you or I chose not to use your dumbass definition.
Well, as of the past 30 years, Islamic Terrorists commit the vast majority of mass murders in the world. Obviously Islam is retarded or you’re wrong.
i never said they were a victim of a school shooter, or atleast didnt mean it i meant shooting. most of the time they arent choosing, its something fucked up with their mind affecting their judgement or they dont want to but feel like they have to.
Wrong.
It’s always a choice, it’s never a problem. They do what they want to do, which is why they do it. If killing people were a problem, they wouldn’t kill people.
They may be a victim of something, but they’re certainly not a victim of their own choices.
honestly, you arent trying to even see my point. i see yours and i understand what you think, but you arent even trying to see me through. im just gonna ignore unless you can actually argue properly.
There’s not much to argue.
You’ve accepted the innocence of a perpetrator in a situation where only the perp has any culpability.
In laments terms, you’ve found yourself relating to the school shooter and empathize with their potential motives. That’s Fucking dangerous.
There's no scientific evidence to show any mechanism through which freewill could exist, or anything in human brains (or the universe) that doesn't seem to behave in a mathematically predictable and predetermined manner.
And...? Science can’t explain everything. Science today was only a dream 150 years ago.
Science may have an answer to freewill’s existence, or not, one day.
I'm not saying there is objective proof there is no free will, just overwhelmingly strong evidence. In order for free will to exist, something that defies the laws of nature as we've observed must exist.
And if freewill doesn't exist, then nobody really "chooses" to do anything. Not in any sort of meaningful way. But as people tend to not behave in a manner that would logically imply that free will exists, we should behave in a manner that assumes they don't.
Lack of evidence is not the same as ‘overwhelmingly strong’ evidence.
I’ll accept that this is as far as our comprehension of reality can possibly go.
I’ll also accept that this is as far as our comprehension of reality can possibly go.
Well, are you’re arguing for the existence of God?
Please, do go on...