Source
r/homelab•
CollateralFortune

Cautionary tale on why buying Enterprise drives from Amazon will probably bite you (if they fail).

Meta

I guess this may be a well doh moment for some of you, but for me, it was a surprise.

I'm a person that has a LOT of hard drives. I was buying six to eight drives a year from 2010 until 2016, and since then I've doubled that at least. And that's just for personal use. For business, it's way more.

After a particular bad run of WD Reds, which 50% ended up getting RMAd, I swore off those drives and started buying exclusively Seagates. I was feeling VERY burned by so many RMAs, so I decided to buy a large batch of Seagate Enterprise drives. More than anything, the idea of a 5 year warranty was extremely attractive.

The drives have been great. Where I was dealing with a 20% failure rate per year on WD drives, with Seagate I've had precisely zero failures, including dozens of Iron Wolf drives since. By far, despite the legendary ST3000 drives, Seagate drives are the most reliably in my own mass deployments.

Unfortunately after 3 years, a few of the Seagate Enterprise drives have had their unrecoverable error counter rising at an uncomfortable rate. So I shoved the serial numbers into the Seagate site, and started the RMA process.

"These drives are OEM. You must contact your place of purchase for warranty support"

In translation, these drives were originally part of a system from a large OEM like Dell, and the Amazon seller parted out the system and sold the drives separately. Which means the 5 year warranty on them doesn't exist.

As it turns out, this is fairly common on Amazon. And of course, Seagate Enterprise drives are popular targets for this. I imagine eBay would be a similar situation, at least for "new" hardware. And to add icing to my cake, I've bought a number of Intel Enterprise SSDs on Amazon recently, which I imagine have no warranty either.

Although most people aren't buying Enterprise spinners, I'm guessing many of us are buying or have bought a variety of Intel SSDs that are in a similar situation to this.

TL;DR An Enterprise drive sold on Amazon probably has no warranty unless you are buying from a verified reseller of that drive

Edit, fixing the TL;DR

Posted Apr 19, 2018, 12:52 PM UTC · edited

9165
ms4720•

Sold by a third party reseller. Also contact Amazon and complain that the product was fraudulently sold as new in box, with the 5 year warranty

88
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

Exactly. I'll admit that its my own fault. I'm completely guilty of being very fast to purchase something when it has a Prime option on it.

I'll have to do some digging into my order history and see what I can find out about the original listing. Looking at some other Enterprise drive listings on Amazon, it appears that this is a VERY common problem.

14
AbleDanger12•

Amazon usually does the right thing by their customers, it's worth a shot.

20
stupac62•

What I do is whenever I buy hard drives (have been buying the 4TB seagate enterprise ones) I go to seagate and check the warranty status before opening. Google for seagate warranty check. I assume other companies have something similar.

7
honorousjack•

Exactly. Never open a hard drive from online retailers without checking warranty eligibility first. Some retailers even sell shucked drives that are not eligible for warranty at all.

1
ms4720•

Might be worth mailing the seller in the future to confirm retail warranty before purchase

2
Deranged40R715•

I feel like his TL;DR really is misleading for not including this critical detail.

3†
PostIronicTransHuman•

That's why you buy from authorized resellers only.

Personally, on Amazon, unless it's being sold by Amazon itself or I've verified the third party seller is the official store for the product, I don't buy it.

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Deranged40R715•

I'm honestly the same way. I guess it sucks for amazon resellers, but there's just too many scammers out there like this guy ran into.

3
PostIronicTransHuman•

Yeah, sucks for unauthorized resellers, but seller fraud and counterfeit items are a growing problem on Amazon so...

Obviously different for used items, but for new I just don't buy from third parties anymore.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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Deranged40R715•

Yeah, but did Amazon not send you a brand new one immediately?

2
PostIronicTransHuman•

Really? Not just fulfilled by Amazon but actually sold by?

1
Trainguyrom•

I work customer support for a RF electronics manufacturer. About half of what I do is warranty claims, the other half if reading the manual to people. Amazon is getting pretty sketchy. Worst part is, they'll have "sold by <manufacturer name>" as the seller, when the seller most definitely is not <manufacturer name>...

1
velogeekSupermicro and all the 10Gs•

Microcenter price matches Amazon so yeah, that's my go-to. I've had to get manager approval when buying more than a couple at the resulting discount but they've never given me much more trouble than that.

3
binkyTHESINKrobinson•

was the seller amazon or a 3rd party (re)seller?

i think you got had by not paying attention to whom you were purchasing from.

12
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

I will 100% cop to it being my own fault. I just don't want others to get caught by it, especially when many of use are super quick to just click "Buy Now" buy it when shopping on Amazon, when Prime is available.

Edit, fixed it for the pedants

4
Zamboni_Driver•

Why do you feel to blame in this situation? Did the product description identify them as being out of warranty?

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Deranged40R715•

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGJ8Z2Q/

This link was found on the page from your original post indicating that this may be fairly common.

Notice how the "buy now" button isn't even there? Instead it's a "See all buying options" button?

This problem didn't happen because you were too quick to the "buy now" button.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
velogeekSupermicro and all the 10Gs•

I got similarly burned on a bunch of M.2 Intel SSDs that were Lenovo OEM but were sold as separated bulk nnew stock. I caught mine far sooner (it was pretty straightforward given that factory SSDs don't come with Windows 7 Enterprise on them) but Amazon was a huge help and I had my money back within a week.

5
coldbyrne•

Did you have to send it back?

1
velogeekSupermicro and all the 10Gs•

I actually did not. It was third party and they refused to send a return label until after Amazon closed it out. At that point, in my eyes, they had the opportunity and the matter was closed.

4
dhm__•

Good to know - thanks!

Just this morning I posted 6x 8TB Seagate Barracuda drives back to Amazon because they were externally labelled as Barracuda Pro - had non-Pro model numbers and no "Pro" marking on the actual disk casing. Thankfully checked before opening any anti-static bags - they were also delivered in relatively poorly packaging.

Its the last time I'll be buying disks from Amazon.

5
CSTutorRHCALAB (7 R610, 3 R510, 3 1500W UPS)•

Also PSA for those who didn't pay attention to my two posts: Don't buy UPS units from Amazon. You can't return them. lol

4
Slightlyevolved•

Oh yeah. I remember that. Did you get the other unit in yet and installed? How's it working?

1
CSTutorRHCALAB (7 R610, 3 R510, 3 1500W UPS)•

One just came from eBay. The other is delayed.

1
electroncarl123•

Amazon has unreturnable things for sale? That's new :o

1
CSTutorRHCALAB (7 R610, 3 R510, 3 1500W UPS)•

Apparently anything with a battery in it (according to all the reps I spoke with, I assume they mean large batteries, not like AA) cannot be returned (even by ground).

They used the excuse that they can't be shipped back to Amazon (WTF? You sent it to me!)

I think the REAL reason is they don't want to incur the cost OR they aren't prepared to recycle the batteries or take the liability of reselling them.

At any rate, the items SHOW returnable as usual on your Amazon orders page but when you ATTEMPT to return, it ultimately ends in failure. When you contact Amazon, you'll encounter huge resistance by both phone and chat.

It took me dozens of reps across both modalities to finally find someone on phone who was willing to refund the cost. I got to keep the product too.

Before someone decides this may be a way to get free UPS units though, I wouldn't risk it. There's a GOOD chance they WON'T refund or return.

On a funny note, once my refund was received I placed an order for the RIGHT item from them (It was Amazon credit so I had no choice but to use Amazon) and then UPS (the shipping carrier) lost my UPS (the product).

SO, Amazon had to place a new order (on them) Friday which is expected to ship Monday and HOPEFULLY won't be lost.

IF the other UPS gets to me, Amazon said I can keep it too since they don't take them back. I think it's truly lost though so I doubt it will arrive. If it does though, it'll be a stroke of good luck.

It's been in PA (same city) since last Sunday and still hasn't moved. I don't know how you lose a giant 90 lbs box but I'm pretty sure it's actually lost.

2
electroncarl123•

There's a GOOD chance they WON'T refund or return.

Eh, that's what credit card return protection is for. Not for a free UPS, but when a store decides they don't want to take something back. Of course, Amazon may not be very pleased to do business with you again after you issue a chargeback via credit card.... anyways.

1
CSTutorRHCALAB (7 R610, 3 R510, 3 1500W UPS)•

Yes, that may be an option. Keep in mind some card types and banks are more willing to side with you than others.

American Express for example is pretty good about siding with the customer. Chase is not so good (especially if you use a Chase debit card).

And, as you stated, any time you initiate a chargeback you risk the company shutting down your account and/or blacklisting your card.

I did initiate a chargeback but ended up cancelling it the very next day once Amazon FINALLY agreed to refund my money. Getting to keep the product was a bonus. I offered to send it back (at their cost of course, since that's what they usually do) and they didn't want it back so it isn't like I took advantage of them.

1
highlord_fox•

This just bit me on a production system at work. And when you contact the seller, they give you a super helpful "Oh, we warranty up to a year.".

IF I WANTED A YEAR WARRANTY, I WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN AN ENT GRADE DRIVE.

The latest batch of drives I got to replace the Seagates are from CDW, who actually came out competitive with Amazon.

4
thefreddit•

Indeed, at this point I source all of my Seagate 2.5" enterprise drives (now renamed to Seagate Exos or something like that) from business retailers like Connection, Provantage, and CDW. With some corporate personal purchasing discounts, they end up often being as cheap as Amazon, and I know I'm always safe on the warranty side.

3
highlord_fox•

I actually jumped back to WD, because I was annoyed at the Seagates. The entire server was running Seagate drives internally, and all were showing signs of failure.

WD Golds for anything running, WD Blue for storing old crap.

2
snuxoll•

CDW is pretty awesome, a lot of people may even be eligible for employer discounts if they check. At the very least they’re a great source for software, they don’t make a big fuss selling to personal users unlike a lot of VAR’s.

1
Seagate_Surfer•

Hi there u/CollateralFortune. We really appreciate you sharing your story, as it educates and informs the community; Always choose the right drive for the right job. If warranty is relevant as part of your purchase decision, verify that the product you are purchasing is covered in advance :)

As a thank you for your support, we'd like to send you a gift of some brand new Seagate Exos Enterprise drives to add to your collection. (they include a 5-year warranty)

Please PM your shipping info and phone, and any form factor or connection requirements.

And again, thank you for the support!

3
COMPUTERCOLLECTORLAB•

Was it listed as new or used drives?

2
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

New. And they definitely were with zero hours on them.

2
ThePegasi•

Were they advertised as having a 5 year warranty by the seller?

3
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

I'm going to have to dig into this some more. It was 3+ years ago so I'm not even sure if the original listing is active anymore

3
killersquirel11•

The Internet Archive is your friend for this

3
tucker-•

^ this

If the drives were advertised having full manufacturer warranty, OP has a leg to stand on. Otherwise, it's buyer beware: save money OR full warranty.

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seaQueuespreading the gospel of 10GbE SFP+•

Go read your CC terms, you may have some warranty protection through your credit card company that applies here.

2
xphx•

This is old news, but still very unfortunate for you. You need to check your hdd serial numbers online with the manufacturer, if it is an OEM drive they will warn you immediately. I now purchase my drives in person in a store and check the serial numbers before checking out to avoid this situation. And no matter whether the seller wrote anything about a 5 year warranty or not, it's fraud to sell such drives without explicitely mentioning that they are OEM drives. This has been going on since forever, and isn't limited to enterprise drives, could have happened to you with the older Reds just as well.

Even sold and shipped by Amazon themselves can lead to this, so forget purchasing only from a trusted seller, you need to check the serial number, it's the only way to make sure and it really doesn't cost you more than a minute.

1
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

I added them to my account IMMEDIATELY when I got them. It never warned me, at least until I tried the RMA.

From Seagate's site in my account

Again, I'll totally accept the responsibility here. I definitely learned something

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honorousjack•

I hope Amazon has made it right for you. If not, you can also contact u/seagate_surfer for seagate support.

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xphx•

Check them here: http://support.seagate.com/apps/customer/en-US/warranty_validation.jsp

I am not sure if adding them to your account does any warranty check at all, it probably doesn't...

1
tucker-•

I guess them are the risks when you buy aftermarket for less than MSRP.

However, you might have a case with Amazon if the seller (fraudulently) states the drives come with full manufacturer warranty.

1
Nephilimi•

I like to run the serial numbers when I get them. That would have helped here.

1
horologium_ad_astra•

I don't buy hard drives from Amazon, eBay, Newegg or any other online store. The compound risks measured against my time and security of my data far outweigh a few saved dollars. Have you seen how awefuly inadequate the packaging is and how delivery guys handle these packages?

1
honorousjack•

I'd say It would always be a good practice to validate warranty coverage as soon as you get the drives. If they're not covered, just return them to Amazon and write about that in product review.

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NMFP420•

www.pcserverandparts.com

0
snuxoll•

I had a pretty mixed experience with these guys, I ordered a OEM R320 from them and it had a defective motherboard (it would constantly fail to detect memory installed in slot A3, I had known good RDIMM’s that were in service nearly two years in my TD340) - they refused to exchange it blaming me for using “non-certified memory”. Replacement board from another seller cost me $60 and worked beautifully, they of course debated the negative feedback I left. I also bought a R210 II from them with no problems...

Be careful with these guys, they offer great deals but if you get a bad part expect them to fight or straight up deny an exchange or refund.

1
-nebular•

$&@%*$

-1
cmsimike•

I currently have 5 WD Reds and they've been the worst mistake I've ever made. One has already failed (so I confirm the 20% you saw) and one is already sounding like it might fail soon.

-1†
CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

From 2012 to 2016, my big purchase was usually 4-8 drives of Reds. It just sort of became a given that at the year and a half mark, I would have to RMA at least one out of every batch, if not two.

The last batch of 6TB I bought were the worst, with like 4 out of 8 failing. That’s when I said enough.

1
carzoomer•

HGST Drives FTW. Back blaze drive failure stats don't lie.

1
TronLightyear•

Yet another reason why I don’t buy seagate

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CollateralFortuneOPMore CPU/RAM/Storage than sense•

It's not really a Seagate issue though. It's an Amazon issue.

At least in my experience with more drives than most users will ever touch, I'll take Seagate any day of the week.

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