Source
r/OCPoetry•
kgaus27

Nihilistic

Feedback Received!

This poem is nihilistic.

Unnecessarily conceited and artistic.

I’ll probably defeat and defile,

Any classic poetry style,

At least for a while.

Then I might drop the rhyme scheme altogether.

Time to get conversational,

Are my ham-fisted attempts to be meta irritating?

Are ham-fists too fleshy to break fourth walls?

Was that too transparent to be clever?

Does the fact I draw attention to my intention redeem its cleverness?

Is this even a poem anymore?

Will this get upvotes because its honest?

I don’t know and don’t care.

Because this poem is nihilistic.

But then why did I bother to write it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/91njo2/but_are_you_entertained/e2zijro/

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/91nf6h/the_working_mans_afterparty/e2zjgrk/?context=0

Now that it has been about a day, I can reveal the purpose of this poem. A poem by u/spitwitandwater inspired me to think about how poetry is received here. I had a hypothesis that poems that are cliched or 'artistically' but unjustifiably vague often do better than well crafted poetry. I know in my experience that poems which I tried to be very honest, or in ones that I spent longer amounts of time on, were not received particularly well in terms of upvotes or volume of comments. So to test this, I wrote this poem in a couple of minutes and posted it. The poem is not good. It is inconsistent, transparent and pointlessly abstract. However, it also got 26 upvotes in less than 24hrs and is by far my most successful poem on reddit. I am not saying I am clever or that my other poems are masterpieces. I simply wanted to point out that there is a trend here to praise certain kinds of poems that don't always deserve it, while other absolute gems that I have read have been ignored. Thankyou all for your replies, and thanks u/spitwitandwater for inspiring me to begin this little test.

Posted Jul 25, 2018, 4:20 AM UTC · edited

2919
AinoKalevala•

Unnecessarily conceited and artistic.

I like your honesty and your rhyme.

Are ham-fists too fleshy to break fourth walls?

Break forth not fourth right or am I just deliriously tired?

Because this poem is nihilistic.

But then why did I write it?

Maybe say why did I "bother to write it"? Makes it sound more cynical.

I liked it. Playful and honest.

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spitwitandwater•

You can break forth through the fourth wall

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kgaus27OP•

Thanks for the critique, I took your advice and changed the last line. The fourth wall is conceptualised as the wall between a character and the audience. When a character breaks the fourth wall, they communicate directly with the audience which indicates that they are self-aware of their fictional status, which should not be possible. It is really obviously parodied in the Deadpool films if you have seen them.

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AinoKalevala•

Yeah I did see one of them. That makes sense.

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squawkercr•

If you're poem is nihilistic, I think you need to also ask yourself why does an audience need to bother to read it. Nihilism isn't a new idea you're bringing to the table so you have to provide value for your audience somehow, even if it isn't that valuable to you. What are you telling your audience by writing this poem? That this poem has no point? If you don't care about your poem then why should we? It's good to be self-aware and conscious of your poetry, but you also have to be aware of your audience.

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Chick-tenderly•

Or, on the contrary, you have to be uncaring of an audience. This poem feels like you want an audience to read it and think it’s clever and thus apply value to it. If it is nihilistic it doesn’t believe anything else or even itself exists. Why should you care about an audience reading it when it’d improve ten-fold if you wrote it for yourself. Because of this I don’t think the poem would be so self aware or conscious. Don’t write for an audience, I hate feeling like I’m reading something scripted to make me feel or think a certain way. And if your audience is solely yourself, you grant yourself complete freedom to express.

I think it’d be fun to read a new version of this poem taking your favorite line and just getting lost in whatever thoughts come up. I like the language you use a lot! One of my favorite line is “Unnecessarily conceited and artistic,” but I just find that it’s neither artistic nor conceited. And it’s not defiling classic poetry directly after the statement in the series of couplets. At its core it’s essentially a statement, a series of questions, and a resolution.

The resolution isn’t as strong as the prior lines. And the voice of the speaker is contradictory to the series of questions in the resolution as well as the statement. Initially the speaker is fiery and confident, which progresses into doubtful and insecure, and further into dismissive and bored. If this is intentional I think the character shifts need to be extended longer, the reader needs to be enveloped in the shifts and in the speaker’s persona.

Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. I enjoyed reading this and I hope to watch you grow in the future. As with all workshops take what you like that I’ve recommended, dismiss what doesn’t affect you, and tackle why some things may make you upset. This is merely the opinion of an online stranger and I know I grow better and feel more respected when people give me candid suggestions.

Happy writing! :)

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kgaus27OP•

Good job on calling this poem out for its pretentiousness. You passed the test, my friend.

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spitwitandwater•

I think the point was proven. Now what do we do. Jay z said it best “I dumb down for my audience and double my dollars They criticize me for it yet they all yell "Holla" If skills sold truth be told I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli”

1
kgaus27OP•

Mmm, its a good question. This is by far my most successful poem on here. 26 upvotes in less than 24hrs; but it took me longer to format than to write... Despite telling the audience throughout the poem that it is not a good poem it was still received as a good poem.

As for the Jay-Z quote, I guess the question really is why am I posting these? Is it for my own ego, to see upvotes and praise? Or is it because I enjoy writing them and posting them here simply gives that writing a purpose or outlet? Probably a mix of both to be honest. I guess this little experiment just reveals that if their are authors who are trying really hard to create great poetry and are invested in their reception, they are unfortunately probably not going to receive the responses that they deserve.

I edited the original post to reveal its purpose. I suppose that is a starting point.

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HeilPingu•

I’ve felt that way about this sub for a while now. Main reason I stopped posting here; bad poems are heavily upvoted despite numerous, often glaringly obvious, shortcomings. That said, though it’s rare, you do get some useful feedback.

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kgaus27OP•

I still have hope and enjoy posting here, but it can be frustrating. Also, your username...I have not thought of Pingu for probably fifteen years. You just returned memories of my childhood haha.

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spitwitandwater•

I would love to set up a foundation that could provide artists with the needs necessary to produce art that doesn’t need to focus on commercial value. I am sure something like this already exists. I imagine the return on investment would be incredible if we could see what the best minds would produce without financial obligations.

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kgaus27OP•

It would be very interesting. I think, unfortunately, many great artists and thinkers are extinguished by the necessity of a 9-5.

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GalaxyQuest18•

Haha, I'm reading other people's comments...I think they are forgetting that above all your poem is just trying to have fun and be playful with words and ideas...not to be taken too seriously, in my opinion. However, still an effective poem in my opinion.

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AinoKalevala•

You made us into lab rats? Oh the indignity! But seriously a very clever research experiment. :)

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notesarefortheweak•

Regardless of your intentions though, this was an absolutely delightful piece to read. The gradual abandonment of form and order and the witty transitions between each line are just entertaining as hell. Love the satirical and cynical ton here too.

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kgaus27OP•

Thankyou.

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corvidcanyon•

Really good flow. Reads like a nice freestyle rap. Sounds good in my head.

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spitwitandwater•

You get an upvote from me! And that was a quick turn around, you could write for a living haha And check out my rooster poem haha

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