Okay, being the techy sort of guy, I naturally have a linux box. It currently resides in my basement. ... And that is about all that it does.
What is the allure of using Linux over Windows/OSX? I code on my Macbook Pro, and could code in Windows.
Am I missing something here?
Posted Jul 16, 2009, 5:25 PM UTC
It gives a higher degree of control over your system. I find it more powerful than other OSes. What I mean by that is that the more linux I learn, the more I can do with it. Whenever I go back to a windows machine it feels like a gaudy toy.
Try using linux as your primary OS for a while. I can't promise you'll like it but maybe you'll at least see why others do.
For a linux noob what edition of linux would you recommend?
Ubuntu, as it has the largest support community. Almost any question you could have has already been answered on an online forum, and if it hasn't been as soon as you ask it will be.
I recommend Ubuntu for just about everyone. It's very nice out of the box and has a decent support community.
Who the hell downvoted you?
I've been using linux since 1993, my first dist was Yggdrasil plug-n-play beta, I'm a coder, and yeah Ubuntu still rocks. Suck it, haters!
I'm going to switch from Ubuntu to Arch pretty soon, I'm getting sick of it.
I dunno, but I'm starting to get used to it. My pro Ubuntu and PS3 comments have a strange tendency to go down to 0 before anyone has a chance to read them.
I have found that most of the power of linux that I have used is command line tools, shell scripting, awk etc. This power can be found almost equally in OS X. There are some small differences with the command line (i can never get the find command to work on OS X like it does in linux), but mostly it's the same. To me, I see no advantage of linux over OS X. Over windows, certainly, but not really over the mac os.
Yeah, I realise linux is open source and all that stuff, and if i wanted to I could rewrite and recompile the whole thing, but I have no intention or desire to ever do that.
And I really think that the GUI of linux, while it is getting better, just isn't as polished as the OS X or Vista/7 GUI.
Dude you can't even change the Top-Menu bar's color in OS X.
100% customizable, free, virius and spyware free, and for me personally I just like it , my window manager is lightweight, I use little ram/cpu usage everything is smooth.
My dislikes and I can't ever get a microphone (built in) to work, or logitech webcam sigh, it really kills my skype experience
I like Ubuntu, the only issue I had is trying to get my modem to work. Being I'm out in the country dial up is pretty my only option, I'd imagine with a real internet connection it most likely works out of the box. If anyone knows of a modem that works, let me know and I'll buy like 10 of them.
probably some type of external modem, I used to have a 56k us robotics serial modem that worked well with linux, not that most computers have serial ports anymore
I agree external is the way to go. It's been several years since I've used Linux in a dial-up setting, so I'm by no means an expert, but I never could get any internal modem to work on Linux (not that internal modems are common anymore, anyway). Either an old school serial modem or a popular USB modem will be your best bet.
Get a USRobotics modem if they still make them. 90% of the modems out there are crappy 'winmodems' that suck at your CPU.
My Logitech webcam, and my USB mic worked out of the box on Arch (Oddly enough, not Ubuntu)
Here is the sad part, I have about 3 logitech webcams (different models) none of the work under linux for me. But yet, I can use vmware with xp in linux and and xp picks them up.
Skype for me under linux with these cams = green video window, and no audio/mic
My built in webcam works fine from my notebook but no audio, I have the dreaded ALC262 and if you google ALC262 linux you get nothing but pages and pages of others that got this horrible audio and are screwed like me , my sound works, but no mic. Not even external or usb seem to work.
But then again I hate this lenovo laptop , its bullshit
I've got a Logitech webcam (Can't remember the model) and I didn't have to configure anything I just ran "yaourt -S bin32-skype" it installed, I opened it, opened options, tested the video, it worked, tested the mic, it worked, then started video chatting with my friends. >>
But I do recall Ubuntu being a fucking pain in the ass. You needed to get crazy v4l drivers and configure then in command line and shit. It was horrible. There's guides on the wiki and stuff.
Let's say that you have an idea for something you'd like to code, but it isn't a medium-power medium-reliability gui application that runs on a desktop.
Let's say it's a human fall detector, inspired by an incident your grandmother had. You want to make a pedometer with a usb port that can upload its data to a computer, and also will sound a loud whistle if the wearer falls. Can you do this with your Macbook Pro?
No, but you can make it happen with Linux. There are many distributions available for embedded projects. You decide on a prototyping board for your chosen microprocessor and flash ram, and bring up the embedded Linux distro. Then you get your micro-accelerometer and tone generator and wire them to the microprocessor. You work on the code until you get it doing about what you want.
Then you fire up the Macbook Pro and develop the application that downloads the flash memory off of the device and uploads it to your website, where grandma's physical activity over the day is plotted on a graph and she can be inspired seeing how her physical therapy is improving.
Step 3 - Profit. And you don't have to pay a license for each one of these gizmos that ships with embedded Linux, thank you very much.
Thank God. Now I won't have to do this on Windows next time.
My grandma will be so happy to hear a loud whistle next time she falls.
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The allure of Linux is that its OPEN SOURCE (meaning that the underlying code is free to use, free to explore, free to change, recode, recompile, update, modify,etc. ) ...
Windows/OSX are CLOSED SOURCE. You have to agree to licensing rules that you will NOT: change, update, hack, recompile,etc the underlying source code. You can write programs that work on top of these operating systems, but you arent allowed to modify the underlying source code.
Why is this alluring?.. because with Linux, you can change anything. You want to write your own file system?.. go for it. You want to fix a flaky video card driver? ... go for it. You want to take an existing Linux distribution and modify it extensively and re-release it as an entire new distribution?.. go for it.
I don't think that's really the allure for most people though. I love my linux box but I have no desire to go creating my own distribution or even hacking code (I haven't programmed for ages). The allure for me is still open source, though.
I find with linux and open source, everything takes a lot of effort to configure, it's true, but the system you have once you're done is stable, dependable, slick, with low resource hogging. No program does stuff you don't want (like starting a process on start-up for no reason). You always feel like your computer works in the most efficient, logical way.
For example, with Windows I always used to hate when the hard disk would start whirring away randomly, or the computer would seem to be still doing things long after you have logged in and started using programs at boot (this was kinda an old PC). With linux I always feel I know what my PC is doing because everything is set up by me, and simply does the job it was written for.
Edit: paragraphs
I don't know why Windows gets the scorn that people throw at it. Most of the Windows boxes I've ever had were stable, dependable, slick and low on resources. Whenever an unknown process popped up (or the hard drive has random activity), there are ways to figure out why those things happen. (and it doesnt even take that much effort or learning)
Operating systems are like any other tool. If end-users learn how to use them properly, and put a minimal amount of effort into maintenance and care, they will last and work reliably.
These are just my experiences, of course I agree that Windows is also very reliable and slick if set up correctly. I just found this easier to achieve on linux.
With Windows, a lot of stuff seems very easy like installing software from exes and not having to worry about setting stuff up much. Then your boot time starts slowing down dramatically as you install more random software and you have to whip out HijackThis and start fixing all the things those programs have shoved into your boot scripts. I found that kind of maintenance was always necessary with Windows.
With my linux box, it can take much more effort setting stuff up to begin with (maybe because I use gentoo), for example you have to enable the start up scripts you want manually on installation if you want them. But the maintenance never seems to be needed, my start up time has remained almost exactly the same for years and I cant remember the last time I had to fiddle with anything etc. It's just different.
Having said that I'm putting Windows 7 straight on my new machine when I get round to getting one, there are many great advantages I miss not having Windows round.
Install and uninstall enough crap, and your registry slowly makes the computer run like molasses.
It's mostly because people who don't know how to use their computer have their computer running at 800x600, no graphics card driver installed, bloatware, amongst other issues only because they didn't know how to properly use their computer.
Yes, and you know, they don't even WANT to mess with learning all that "properly" shit. Especially when they have to RE-learn it every couple of years when Microsoft changes it again for no reason. End users shouldn't have to learn "properly" anything about an operating system. They should not even have to deal with drivers at all.
So you can bring it up in conversation around other geeks. Seriously, what percentage of GNU/Linux users actually bother to screw with the code base regularly?
I hacked the Alsa driver so it would support the latest Titanium X-FI card. :)
It's not so much about needing to screw with the code base regularly, it's about that one time that you're at a lan party and you want to get your gaming on but you can't because the driver for your new network card is too buggy. So, you just code up a new one because you can.
Don't take this as me trying to insult you, but why were you gaming on a Linux box? Is there some crazy awesome multiplayer game that I'm not aware of?
There's lots of linux games, or games that run on linux: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_gaming
Also, there is a linux port of Heroes of Might and Magic 3!! What more do you need?
I'm sorry but arguing that there are games for linux is the weakest argument in the box. The games that are available for linux are years old and outdated, there are a few games that may be good but as opposed to PC, and even Mac, it pales in comparison
How about... 99% of the commercial library released in the past 5 years?
EDIT: I love 'buntu, I just wish that WINE kicked even more ass than it does. I'm hoping that Google OS will become popular enough to shift game development onto Linux as well.
I run into stuff like this too. I'm a graphic designer, and one time I didn't have The GIMP. Kinda sucked, but I just made a new GIMP that night and went on my merry way.
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I don't screw with the code base regularly, but I do use python / perl scripts and bash / command-line programs daily.
Some of The Good
Open source is a big reason
The ability to fix your own problems if you are so inclined
Makes a great platform for commodity network services
root has full control of the hardware, nothing trying to protect you from you.
Very deep unix/linux gene pool to draw from.
programming tools out the wazzzoooo
Kill -9 and Kill -15
File based arch. copy it, change it, oh crap it, restore it
My fav reason..... Vi
Available commercial documentation and man pages
Some of The Bad
Functions as a desktop but you will not be downloading videos from Blockbuster.
Flash and Java upgrades will always ruin your day
64 bit makes the above 4 times as hard
dual screens are cryptonite (is that how that is spelled?)
Oracle bought sun...
dual screens are cryptonite (is that how that is spelled?)
kryptonite ;)
freedom
honorable mention to customization and power
I will try to give my best shot at rehashing a train of thought i had about Linux and the open source movement in general.
If you have ever been to a nice small town bar, where there everyday prices are 1/2 that of the specials at your glitzy places, and you have witnessed the atmosphere, that is where i am coming from. In a small community people are concerened more with developing relationships than maximizing income. (This could be viewed as a the difference between true capitalism and profiteering, but that is for another discussion). As the world becomes more connected, we lose that small community aspect and the benefits that came with it. But what we have lost in our neighborhoods, we have regained over our networks. The internet has allowed us to reform these small community structures and communicate with other small communities. The internet based communities form around common interest and a basic want to share and gain knowledge. Linux and the open source movement are products of this small community mindset fighting back against the hyper-connected big business world where we live. Linux is a big deal because you have a grass roots effort that is second to none in battling the software giants.
That may not make much sense to anyone other than myself, but that short paragraph is what "the big deal with linux" is.
edit: spelling
You know.. as a Linux-outsider, I'd like to believe (and support) this "sense of small tight knit community" you are describing,.. but I've never seen it to be the case. Everytime I've tried to switch over to some flavor of Linux, I invariably need some help,.. and the help I get is decidedly non-friendly ("RTFM N00b!").. or decidedly non-organized ("Um,..which of the 37 different forums or IRC rooms do I need to ask this question in?")
on the rare occasions that I do find some tech-document or instructions to solve the problem I'm having, its written poorly (has mistakes or missing steps or steps that say something like: "Your distro may differ, so poke around and figure it out") ... well thats not really helpful at all.
I'm not trying to knock Linux,.. but I just wish the community would quit splitting off into more and more (poorly supported/documented) projects and instead focus on making the core stronger and easier to use. I think that would be a better way to attract users/contributers
I've had the same exact problems, but I think things have gotten better with some of the more mainstream distros (like Ubuntu).
What's the allure of using windows over osx/linux? Same thing for osx vs windows/linux, it's just a matter of preference.
Ease over hassle, elitism over ease
If you're a programmer it's a big deal. Knowing programming will allow you to get MORE stuff done, than on a Windows or Mac however, AND you can customize it yourself.
If you actually want to get stuff done, and have menial needs, I wouldn't worry about it.
It was more of a big deal in the 90s, back when 'open source' was not a household name. It was an underground, grass-roots attempt to produce a modern operating system for hackers, programmers and hobbyists, a way of really sticking it to Microsoft in the era of its most hegemonic dominance of the market and the entire corporate 'shoving our product down your throat' business model.
Welcome to 9th and 10th grade for me. I spent my every waking minute of my life learning about linux. I even managed the linux server at my high school (yes we had one that used redhat 3 I believe - also have Invision software loaded on it for forums).
When you do a gentoo stage 1 install and have to try it 3 fucking times in two nights to get it to work, you realize some things are best left untouched. It was about after that when I started going outside.
Your problem was using Gentoo. :)
... and not using Windows Server.
Windows on a server = lulz
Well part of the attractiveness is that it is open source.
Elitism.
That's like calling a chef an elitist for preferring his self-made baked goods to Wonder Bread.
Most of the chef's I've ever met have been elitist pricks, so ok.
*awww did I hurt the little chefy's feelings enough they have to downvote me awwww...there there little guys. Before IT I worked in kitchens... 99% of chefs = arrogant, self centered, childish, dicks. That's what makes them good in a kitchen though. Chefs that aren't dicks aren't chefs for long, or they are lousy ones. It's a job requirement and not a bad thing. Comes with the territory.
Okay. It's like an experienced Navajo preferring her intricate self-made rugs to a 'welcome mat.'
It isn't that I don't agree with what you're saying, but in my experiences with people who are whole hog on linux and nothing else...they have all been total assholes about it, but when compared to actual technical skill...it just hasn't been there. They're biggest deal was, I use linux so I'm better than you and the mac guy over there. I really don't have a problem with linux, I toy around with it (and mac os) quite frequently. All three operating systems have things that they excel at more than others and all three have huge glaring problems. The biggest problem I have run into with linux has been absolutely piss poor hardware support. Every linux install I've done, there is something that simply will not work, and no amount of pissing around will get it to. Yes, windows and microsoft suck, but at least most of the time you can get it to work...most of the time. Linux has a ton of absolutely awesome features, but it definitely isn't mainstream ready. The average jackass and a computer couldn't make heads or tails of it, and I feel that in order for linux to ever take over any majority of the market share in home pc's it has to be taken a bit further in terms of usability for the average user. If you're a tech person and you know you're way around computers...sure it's great but until the average idiot can use it...that's all it is...an operating system for people at the top of the totem pole...the computer elite..hence elitism.
it's owned by the public (us). that means that if you don't like something about it, you can go ahead and change it.
For me the big deal is the whole open source movement and the linux OS is the basis for the whole philosophy.
No, you're not missing anything. If you want to be productive keep a Windows / OSX desktop machine.
If you get wood by being able to choose the compiler optimization flag of your kernel, get a Linux machine.
Lunix is mostly practical in embedded machines (cell phones, set top boxes, etc) and server environments (web servers, database, etc).
That is all.
If you want to be productive keep a Windows / OSX desktop machine.
If you want to be productive, use whatever software has the functionality you need that you find most comfortable.
Eric Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar To me, it is just how FOSS works. How do so many people produce amazing stuff in a decentralized fashion. And the ability to get any packages I want for free immediately by just saying 'apt-get'. I am not talented enough to modify the code and make my own version, so this has never been why I've been interested in it.
It boils down to this. It is amazing what the developers do. And it has many advantages. And it is a very reasonable alternative. And it keeps getting better. Ubuntu, for example, is a perfectly viable alternative to people who dont use the computer for much except firing up a browser and creating documents.
Focus follows mouse and doesn't autoraise, plus I can Alt-click anywhere in a window to move it, and Alt-right-click anywhere to resize it.
Fuck games and Photoshop- I'm sold.
you know you can really fuck with photoshop
I think it is different for everyone but here I what the "big deal" is for me.
That is all I can think of at the minute.
Edit: markdown
s/every few months/every day
Other than Flash, you mean.
No, the qualifier was "greatest".
Flexibility.
Most things that get improved by the 'hacking' community are linux based. Your Linksys Wireless router: tired of only having ~100' range? Install a second wireless router and share internet with your buddy four houses away by setting the second router to be a range extender using linux-based Open-WRT. The Apple-TV killer, your modded 1st gen XBox: Sure enough, based on linux.
Unlike your common OSes, Linux is modular--sure, extensive graphics based versions run on your computer, but scaled down versions run on your cell phone or your router. Kicker is, they all use the same software. File structures are the same no matter how big or small your install is. You compile software for all versions the same way.
I personally don't care about this subject, OS's are personal choices and mine is Windows and Linux, but not everything you wrote is correct.
Most Linux distributions are free, that's true, but Windows could too be installed on almost any box, with the obvious exception of different architectures and similar things.
Repositories are great, but all software you require... Well, you personally, but again, many people have trouble finding alternative software on Linux, much less free. Despite the huge choice.
That is, if you choose free (as in beer) software, something you can do on any other OS too.
For free?
For free.
As long as you're ok with pirating software.
I'm not.
I didn't mention that part because I agree with it. I agree with most of the stuff you wrote.
[deleted]
Well, when beer IS free, it's not like they give you the recipe and exact conditions it was brewed in so you can go make your own. It just doesn't cost anything to you.