Source
r/Velkoz•
GoreTale

W Max vs Q Max.

When i started using vel'koz (years ago) i would max W and ignore my opponent and shove the wave but these days players wont allow you to just shove them since you need to be close to the minions to get W to hit every minion thus Q max is by far superior to W, you don't need to max W and just rely on the passive to shove waves whilst having your q free to either poke/harass/set up combo's/box your opponent out of your face or complete a passive proc. Maxing W first offers you less threat on your opponent unless you awkwardly hit 3 or so minions in a wave whilst also trying to poke them with W's deceptively fat hitbox. The opponent can just stand either out of range of W or stand to the side and exploit the fact you didn't take Q first.

The way i handle the lane is W the entire wave as much as possible while continually repositioning for angles to hit my opponent with Q and don't go for any combo's or E's pre 6 since if you miss you're out of mana, whereas if you stick to the style i mentioned W the wave and Q the opponent when angles present themselves or they try to close the distance on you you will have enough mana even without blue buff the entire game.

All that said most vel'koz players max W why.

Posted Aug 7, 2018, 12:53 AM UTC

516
daraghlol•

3 points in w then max q

20
Vegathron•

i do this because ive seen it on these threads before, it works well, however why specifically is 3 points the magic number?

2
rafizz_gaming•

3 points in W is enough to kill the caster minions in combination with Q or E.

- WE / or EW - You will kill the caster minions

- WQ (dont do QW) - Will kill the caster minions and give you mana back. Bonus points for killing all 3 casters with Q, as this will give you most mana back.

- WWEQ (E on caster, Q on melees) will clean the whole wave, in case you need to clear it fast.

Be careful to not perma clear casters with WE, as this makes you vulnerable to all-ins, as you lose your best self peel. Variations in your pattern will keep you less predictable.

4
The_Toaster_•

I think it allows you to kill caster minions with one w with like a Doran’s and an amp tome. Might be with lost chapter. Either way I think it’s for that reason but it’s been a while since I’ve played.

3
seyandizNumber Cruncher•

W max increases your damage and lowers your CD. Q max only increases your damage. Q already has a high scaling, so building AP is strong on it as it is.

Early game, W is just better for waveclear and roam. You can waveclear with W and go help your jungler get ahead.

3
GoreTaleOP•

q also increases slow duration and mana refund, slow duration is good for arcane comet and his entire kit. W is a wave clearing ability lol i must be crazy

1
seyandizNumber Cruncher•

Q's mana refund doesn't go up, it stays the same. You get the same portion spent back.

The slow duration increase is good, but it has very little affect on mobile enemies and immobile enemies already get hit by your comet with one Q.

It comes down to the fact that you have extremely little kill pressure before 6. W gives you lane pressure so that you can help work with your Jungler to gain kill pressure.

2
ShoutyShout13Eye see you!•

The mana refund is always strictly 50% on kill. The percentage you gain from the mana cost does not change. Killing 2 minions will always be a complete refund, 3 kills for 50% mana gain and 1 kill for 50% mana refund, regardless of its rank (it's not the main benefit anyway, since it's there to help him sustain through the lane).

1
Vegathron•

are you sure? if im not mistaken, q mana cost goes up with rank. so when you get 3 kills (150% return) the extra 50 % will be more. in return your using more mana to cast q however. example with made up numbers: rank 1 q, cost 100 mana. i kill 3 things and get back 150 mana (+50). i rank q up it now costs 110 mana. killing 3 things now gives 165 mana back (+65). doesnt matter if your only spamming q but other abilities cost the same so it is a bit more mana sustain. correct me if im wrong?

1
ShoutyShout13Eye see you!•

I can definitely see where you and the other guy is coming from when you're looking at *how much* mana you gain back. In that case, you would be correct that you are given a bit more mana at 3 kills.

But no matter how you splice it, it is *always* 50% of the mana cost that is given per kill, meaning that it scales off the mana cost rather than an independent flat amount.

2
NinjaPandaProEye sore it all•

Most people who max W tend to play the safe afk farm early game and just pop-off in the late game but people who max Q like to get kills early and close out games faster.

1
GoreTaleOP•

Maxing W is the least safe option though since, against a fizz say who wants you to push so he can freeze and put you in an extremely threatening oneshot situation, W aids him in this quest whereas Q not only helps you to farm from range if you need to but you can also play the freeze game again if you need to, farming only with auto's while poking with q (if the jungler is on you 24/7). If you max W you have nothing in that situation.

1
Prxg•

if you shove to his turret he can’t really freeze can he

1
GoreTaleOP•

Good player usually jump you the second you throw abilities in lane, so that wont fly.

0
NinjaPandaProEye sore it all•

Well, it honestly depends on your positioning as well. A good W to clear and healthy distance from the fizz can keep you safe. Pre-6 you should be bullying him constantly and post 6 you should monitor his playstyle to make sure he doesn't jump on you for the easy kill with ult.

1
SergeantWea•

Do 3 points in W then max Q

1