r/AcademicBiblical•
Flubb

Petiton to rename sub to AcademiCarriehrman

Just kidding! As you all remember a couple of years ago (naturally), I mentioned I'd like to graph everyone mentioned in the sub as I reckoned Ehrman would be the top name mentioned. More recently we had this thread which prompted me to actually get on with it, because by golly, the love affair with Ehrman seems overwhelming. Is it?

[Narrator: He was right]

There are 3 ways of getting data from Reddit (if you care): the first is to go via pushshift download the subreddit for the month and then parse that, or use the online access via pushshift and query that way, or go use PRAW and then mine it for all proper nouns and that would give the most accurate count. However, doing that that requires Python and then some database of what constitutes a proper noun, and I've got PERL and cba with a database, so I went the hard way and went through 200 posts manually. I did the first 100 posts starting recently (whatever was posted by about Friday backwards), and the second 100 was taken from 2016-2017 via redditsearch (which due to changes in the Reddit API, only returns 100 results anyway).

Some limitations:

  • I reckon my accuracy is around 95% and I think that margin of error is quite high, it's probably closer to 98% but I'll hedge on the safe side.
  • I ignored u/nightshadewine (sorry!) comment trains as they tended to be a long series of quotes stitched together on mostly Egyptian issues.
  • I ignored quotes that included other scholars - so I only took the initial quotee (?)
  • I sometimes didn't recognise last names, so a few of those got missed out (maybe 10 in total)
  • I ignored people who I recognised as not having written anything about biblical studies

So here's what I unscientifically gathered - I've probably screwed something up somewhere, so YMMV.

Across the most recent 100 posts:

  • 144 people named for a total of 340 mentions
  • 106 of those people were mentioned once.
  • 38 were mentioned twice or more.

I can't really fit everyone on the axis at the bottom, but we can zoom in to the top 10 and see who figures most prominently. To my vague surprise, Ehrman actually comes in second place behind Carrier. As you can see, mythicist-y people figure quite prominently.

Across the 2016-2017 historical 100 posts:

  • 163 people were named for a total of 1207 mentions
  • 95 were mentioned once
  • 68 mentioned twice or more.

Again, too many to neatly fit but it gives you an idea of the distribution. Out of the top 10^1 we see the distribution a bit clearer, with only 2 mythicists creeping in, but with a shared high % of the total mentions.

^1. Now with Robert M Price's clone removed! Thanks u/niado

Overall Combined:

  • 266 people named, for a total of 1547 mentions (remember some appear on both lists)
  • 166 of them mentioned once (~10%)
  • 100 of them mentioned 90% of the time

Here are the top ten people to be mentioned across the 200 posts. If we expand that list to the top 20, we're only starting with people who were mentioned 8 times or more.

Things I learned from doing this:

  • The majority of posts go unsubstantiated by any academic standard :P Vast threads often had no mention of anyone at all.
  • Certain people are responsible for some of the names almost exclusively - Dykstra, Vinczent, Klinghardt, Crossan (iirc) all pretty much come from 1, perhaps 2 people.
  • Ehrman is really popular and has a 22% chance of being mentioned at any given point. Also, too many people call him Erhman, me included. Curiously, he's hardly ever cited for his textual criticism (with or without Metzeger) but mostly for his sort of popular works.
  • u/kevotrick is probably responsible for at least 1/3 of unique references in the most recent 100 posts, and I wouldn't be surprised if that hit 50%. Go you for expanding the list of resources known!
  • New Testament stuff is more popular than OT :( I'm guesstimating looking at the list, but maybe 10-15% of the people mentioned are OT.

Edit: I used to wonder how on earth idiots people could spend all this time on a post and fail to spot spelling errors in the title and now I know.

Editedit: fixed link

Editeditedit: downvoters = bart-hurt apologists

Posted Aug 14, 2018, 12:33 AM UTC · edited

4050
Vehk•

I lol'd at "N. T. Wrong". Then immediately felt bad as I've never actually read any of his work to form an opinion of my own.

24
OtherWisdomModerator•

What's even more hilarious is that someone reported this post as 'spam'. My sides have left the known universe 🚀!!!

11
best_of_badgers•

There was actually an academic blogger who wrote under that name for years. He and James McGrath interacted a lot. Maybe that's who they're referring to?

2
OtherWisdomModerator•

u/kevotrick has been an amazing asset to both r/AcademicBiblical and r/AskBibleScholars. I would like to, personally and publicly, thank this person for their contributions.

22
kevotrickMDiv | Theology || MPhil | Hebrew Bible | Moderator•

Thank you. I appreciate it.

26
Vehk•

Hear, hear. u/kevotrick has been making incredibly useful contributions that are more often than not the best response in any thread (s)he comments on.

6
kevotrickMDiv | Theology || MPhil | Hebrew Bible | Moderator•

Thank you very much! In addition, I am a he!

4
OtherWisdomModerator•

You identify as male?

-4
kevotrickMDiv | Theology || MPhil | Hebrew Bible | Moderator•

As one does.

5
BaronVonCrunchModerator•

Consider me shocked - shocked, I tell you! - that scholars who communicate with popular audiences tend to be more widely known, mentioned and debated in a subreddit devoted to learning about biblical scholarship!

Edit: Nice work, though. I’m somewhat surprised that Friedman, Kugel and Heiser are ranked so low. And that Daniel B. Wallace isn’t even on the list! I would have thought he would be.

14
OtherWisdomModerator•

Nice work, though. I’m somewhat surprised that Friedman, Kugel and Heiser are ranked so low. And that Daniel B. Wallace isn’t even on the list!

Right?!?

5
Vehk•

That is really strange as I feel like "How to Read the Bible" is referenced here fairly often, and at least I personally cite Friedman more than anyone.

5
OtherWisdomModerator•

I learned about both Kugel and Friedman here and have them in the recommended readings wiki at r/AskBibleScholars.

They are at the top!

4
Tsegen•

That book is referenced generally, as a recommendation.

Ehrman, due to wandering far and wide with his popular books and accessible blog is a very easy citation (to get past the mod filter) on a whole bunch of topics for everyone.

3
Starfire013•

I've seen Friedman and Kugel mentioned here on a pretty regular basis. Heiser less so, though.

1
OtherWisdomModerator•

You haven't seen my comments then. I've mentioned Heiser many times.

2
Starfire013•

It's quite possible that I have simply read more of the threads where Friedman and Kugel are mentioned. I tend to skim a lot. It might also be that I notice Friedman and Kugel more as I'm already familiar with some of their works.

3
husky54PhD | HB | ANE | Northwest Semitic Epigraphy & Paleography•

Heiser isn't even a major player in the field. This is pretty much just proof that folks gravitate towards "public scholars" and not the grittier, cutting edge stuff.

2
FlubbOPHebrew Bible | NT studies•

Remember that this is based only on the last 100 posts + 100 posts from 2016-17, so there will be variations depending on what posts were taken. See my post below for a bit more on those authors.

0
redshrek•

And that Daniel B. Wallace isn’t even on the list! I would have thought he would be.

Just don't cite him when talking about FCM.

2
BaronVonCrunchModerator•

In fairness, I think Wallace was a victim in that matter. I mean, he exercised poor judgment in making the initial claim without doing more due diligence, but that was a judgment error and not an ethical one. We all sometimes relay claims we've heard from people we think are credible.

I thought his apology was good and sufficient.

2
redshrek•

I heard him on a livestream on Youtube offer a mea culpa for his role in the whole nonsense and I found it not only insufficient but it seemed to me that he didn't quite grasp how much he fucked up. There's a Youtube channel named Pinecreek that did a fantastic job compiling a timeline of the FCM fiasco and I think Wallace is being given way more charity than is deserved.

Edit: Found the videos on the FCM mess Part 1 Part 2

3
BaronVonCrunchModerator•

Why do you think that?

It seems to me that he exercised poor judgment by A) accepting the word of the person who told him about the alleged FCM prior to the Ehrman debate, and B) trotting it out at the debate without having done due diligence, but those are prudential judgment errors, not ethical ones.

Afterward, the NDA prevented him from saying more. And while there may be valid concerns about scholars signing NDAs, it is not uncommon. I believe Ehrman mentioned having to sign an NDA to look at the Gospel of Judas at some point.

But I haven't followed the intricate details of the controversy as closely as others have. What is your take?

2
FlubbOPHebrew Bible | NT studies•

:) This is where the !SCIENCE! part goes wrong, because it could be that the 200 posts I chose were heavily biased in a particular direction, and another 200 would rectify that (I know that of the historic 2016-7 posts, Ehrman figured quite highly in posts because I think he had released a book or something).

Throwing their names into redditsearch as posts over the last year actually shows Friedman more common that Heiser who is more popular than Kugel, but my initial response would be that Kugel is more popular than either.

Looking at comments puts Friedman at 63, Heiser at 76, and Kugel at 34 which I wouldn't have expected.

1
BaronVonCrunchModerator•

I would bet we would find similar results in Ask Science or Ask Historian subs. People like Feynman, Sagan, Hawking, Tyson and other popular science communicators are probably discussed far more often than the more obscure scientists who do the bulk of current research.

Are there websites that provide layman level information about current biblical scholarship? I read a number of biblical scholar's blogs, but even they seem to talk about many of the names on that list more often than they do about less well known scholars.

2
FlubbOPHebrew Bible | NT studies•

Outside this list I haven't really been following anyone - they've updated it in July so it's pretty current, but what I can't tell you is if they're really laymen intros or not. Sorry for being useless on that!

2
BaronVonCrunchModerator•

When will you finally stop putting so much time into your professional duties and spend more time educating fools like me?

No, I appreciate it. I read about 8-10 of these on a fairly regular basis. Looks like a good source for additional reading, though!

1
niado•

Whelp, my weekend is now shot!

1
Atheizm•

Carrier-Ehrman is the two-headed god of religious nerds now.

6
koine_linguaFounder | ANE | Early Judaism & Christianity•

Moving up in the world, u/danielngullotta!

5
danielngullottaMA | Religion | History of Christianity•

There is only so much, "Why dont you understand Carrier's thesis" one can take.

7
OtherWisdomModerator•

There you are! I'm going to fix your flair sir. I apologize that It hadn't been taken care of until now.

2
danielngullottaMA | Religion | History of Christianity•

I am more of a lurker I guess.

2
OtherWisdomModerator•

I enjoyed his brief interaction here and I wish he'd come back to us.

3
niado•

This is really cool.

Not sure if it's an error, but you have Robert Price twice in the historical top 10 chart.

4
koine_linguaFounder | ANE | Early Judaism & Christianity•

That’s because he’s just that important.

3
Kuriakos_PhD | NT & Early Christianity•

It is a shame that I see so many fringe nutters on that graph

3â€