Source
r/Leathercraft•
flatfocus

What's the cheapest new sewing machine I could get that would do professional quality work?

Question/Help

If I wanted to make something like backpacks, and I wanted to buy a NEW sewing machine, what is the cheapest one I could buy that WOULD do a good, professional job and not be super hard to use? For ease of use I'd say for instance: It doesn't have to be DEAD SIMPLE but something that doesn't leave out handy features (walking foot?)

Thickness of leather to sew: I dunno, 5/6oz, maybe 6/7 ? higher would be a plus but not vital.

I'm limiting this question to certain very narrow parameters here. I know buying used would be cheaper, and that there are probably very fancy ones that make it SUPER easy, but I just am curious about this narrow range (doubt I'll buy one soon anyway)

Posted Aug 19, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

2529
rumandhide•

Since you're measuring leather in ounces I'm going to assume you're in the US. Avoid going via online-only or drop-shipping companies. Waste of your time and money. You should be looking at fairly basic Chinese manufactured clones of "premium" machines, but setup and quality checked in the US. The Cowboy line is popular.

If you can make your backpacks on a flat-bed machine you can get something like a Consew P1206, which will set you back $1k. That's your minimum price. If you need a cylinder-bed machine there's fewer options and you'll be looking at something like the Cowboy 227. Price is around $1700. If you need a post-bed you'll have to start phoning dealers ;-) These will do you up to 3/8" total thickness of leather with v138 thread, or maybe v207 if you ask it nicely.

Beefier machines based on the Juki 441 or the Adler 205 start at $2000. These can handle thicker thread, thicker leather, and some models have a longer working space to the right of the needle.

Industrial lock-stitch machines are fairly simple. You got a wheel that turns to make it sew, a pedal that makes the motor turn the wheel move, a foot-lift lever (and pedal that does the same), a top tension knob, a bobbin of some sort and a bobbin winder which stops winding as soon as it's full. Modern servo-motors will probably have a speed limiting control and maybe a control that stops the machine in a certain position each time. Needles change by one screw. If you can make a car go, you can make a simple industrial sewing machine work. One of the benefits of buying a machine from a real sewing machine dealer/technician is that these main controls should be all that you need, at least to start with. All the fiddling about -- the setup -- will be already done for you.

15
GCU_JustTesting•

Just a point: because we import a lot of leather, here in Australia we also get a lot of leather in ounces. Mostly it’s by mm thickness, but it does happen.
Also, the smallest cowboy I’ve seen here doesn’t come with a motor and is around 2k.

3
rumandhide•

Interesting, makes sense on measuring leather by ounces (about the only thing that does.... And I like the Imperial system!)

That's partly the relatively low Australian dollar and population (demand), but also the Australia Tax. We have similar situation here in the UK, and Europe generally. One dealer wanted £3k+ tax (at 20%) for a basic 441 clone similar to a CB4500 but without the speed reducer and leather specific setup. I've found another source that is more like £3k all in. There's a couple of German dealers which are more reasonable but it would be cheaper, even after transatlantic shipping and import taxes, to buy one from the States and have it shipped to me.

Which CBmodel is it for Oz$2k?

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GCU_JustTesting•

The smallest one, without a motor 😤

I don’t get the whole ounces thing though. I don’t know why it would make sense to measure the thickness by weight. Surely the density of the leather plays a part and you won’t get an even thickness across types of hide.

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flatfocusOP•

Thanks, this is great info! Really, really helpful. Gotta admit, I don't know much about machines at this point, but this has given me a number of things to learn up on. It's so handy to know WHAT aspects of a machine are going to matter (cylinder-bed vs flatbed) so I can figure out the deal with those. thanks!

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StellarFlies•

I spent years on this question and finally ended up with a Cowboy CB3200. Retails for just under $2k with shipping and all. http://www.solar-leather.com/cowboy-cb3200/

It really depends on the type of work you're doing. I have four other machines, none of which can handle this kind of load, but they could handle quite a bit. If you're really looking at 5 plus oz leather, you need something like this.

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falicor•

Goddamn.

What's the price for the professional one

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rumandhide•

You can pick up one of the new Adler 969s for about $9k. About the same as a real juki 441 and worth every penny so I'm told.

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B_GeislerMod/Professional/Tooling Challenge Champion•

The loaded 969 is over $10k. I use its predecessor the Adler 205-370 (almost $8k in 1987) daily and even at 30 years old it’s smoother than the Jukis.

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rumandhide•

Well that's a lot of pocket change. I wouldn't mind a 205 but they don't come up much in the UK.

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JustaskingyouagainBeginner•

1858

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dkon777•

How does a machine like that do with thinner leather? Like 2 layers of 3-4oz veg tan? Do you happen to have any photos of the stitching? Thank you! These posts are very helpful

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StellarFlies•

Thinner leathers and thick canvas do great on the cowboy. No issues whatsoever and the stitching is beautiful. There are videos and images online from the company which were perfectly accurate. Ill upload photos if I find any available. I'm out of town at the moment.

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flatfocusOP•

Thanks, this is handy, and I always appreciate knowing that someone else spent time figuring the same thing out!

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B_GeislerMod/Professional/Tooling Challenge Champion•

You’re looking at a Consew 227/ Seiko 8/ Juki 246/ Pfaff 335 (and clones). These machines start in the $1,600+ range.

Clone vendors include Artisan, Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew and others.

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beef_me_broBeginner•

Sailrite isnt bad. Around $800 you can have a light weight industrial sewing machine. It's meant to sew many layers of sail canvas and leather.

Edit: I should qualify that I'm a beginner. I mostly do hand sewing, but this worked for my needs. It may be the minimum you can get away with for semi-serious leather craft production.

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texasrigger•

With stiff leather you are going to run up against the limitations of that LSZ1 (or LS1) pretty quickly although it does ok if you keep it on a straight stitch. Max needle size is a #22 with #138 thread but it's a small bobbin so it won't hold much of it although it holds plenty of #92. Pressure foot lift is 3/8" and it's a walking foot but not walking needle.

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flatfocusOP•

Thanks, this is a good suggestion. I know I've read about Sailrite a few times and totally forgot about them. I'll have to look into them.

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beef_me_broBeginner•

I think it would handle 7oz leather just fine. I was sewing 8oz leather. That said, I needed the machine for a very specific purpose. They are also very easy to transport if that's important to you.

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flatfocusOP•

Cool! Also when you saw handle 7oz, do you mean sewing 2 pieces of 7oz together, or 7 total? I forgot to clarify that in my question but I guess everyone took it as 2 pieces together (the obvious!)

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beef_me_broBeginner•

It was 2 pieces together. And it was shell cordovan, if that matters.

2
Aza404•

Sailrite

Thank you for the suggestion : I have been looking into options and this seems to be the best I've seen so far !!

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AfterElysium•

I don’t work with leather traditionally, I’m interested in learning more about the craft and lurk here, but possible point of interest as I do have quite a bit of experience with sewing:

The metal body antique sewing machines that you use a foot pedal to operate rather than plugging in, Singer for example, will sew through several layers of leather without complaint as long as the needle is sharp.

If it’s a matter of budget, I’ve found them at estate sales and often on Facebook marketplace for $100 or so. Yes, they can get super pricey as well, but many people just get rid of them. Might be worth a try before you shell out big money on a modern machine.

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rumandhide•

Those iron-body domestic machines can do some surprising things and are tougher than any domestic from today. My Singer 99 keeps ticking, even if it's older than my grandparents. However they are very limited. In my experience they are limited to a few millimeters' thickness of soft-temper leather with thread no thicker than TKT40/V69 nylon. Even within these limitations the machine will be beyond its design limits. They may be heavy but the important parts inside simply aren't tough enough to do much work at these tensions. I wouldn't be happy making a rucksack with such thin thread.

They are invariably bottom-feed-only (drop-feed). I actually like drop-feed machines for certain tasks in leather but multiple layers of soft leather will have trouble, and harder leathers will be essentially impossible. That's why I limited my suggestions to triple/compound feed machines, which massively reduce these issues.

Further, all domestics have tiny bobbins. Frequent bobbin changes are a bugger, and if in the middle of seams can be tricky to hide.

I know $100 seems like a bargain but frankly I think it's better saved towards an entry level industrial.

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AfterElysium•

Your points absolutely make sense, especially from someone who has more experience with leather stitching than I do.

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