Calculating the TTK for each Assault Rifle: Which is deadliest? [WackyJacky101]
Posted Nov 6, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC
160140
Eh, great for a little theory crafting, but doesn't really pass the smell test for me.
Fights in PUBG are quite a bit more complex, and time and again I've found the AK's stopping power to be the deciding factor, despite it's lower ROF/DPS/TTK.
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I'd take a guess that most of those fights would probably have been won regardless of your AR, unless those are fights where you were always one bullet from dead after.
When you look at the TTK it rarely matters significantly, it matters only in the straight face to face battles where you both are reacting and shooting at the same time. Charging a house for example.
Generally I take anything but a SCAR for that. But the SCAR still has a sweet spot in my heart for the ability to spray at pretty ridiculous distances.
(I'm not disparaging the AK, I love it and use it like 40% of my matches, but the difference is most likely that you're most used to it and can shoot it better than others due to familiarity).
14
unless those are fights where you were always one bullet from dead after.
Happens enough that I prefer the AK when possible.
Consider a prolonged fight that involves both parties healing (not an unusual scenario) a 7.62 headshot will take out a level 1 helmet that's just used a first aid; 5.56 won't.
Or, against a player with 2 armor (another highly common scenario), a headshot and a body shot is lethal against full health, not the same for 5.56.
Those situations I've just found the AK gets me on top more often than other AR's.
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See, your point about the headshot+body followup are exactly why I use the AK as much as possible. Coming from 10+ years of counter-strike, where lining up head shots and rapid pull-down recoil control is the definitive measure of skill, this is where the AK is the best AR.
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You get enough HS+body shot knocks/kills, that when you switch to a 556 and have to get that extra round in, you start to consider things differently.
Of course, it really helps the AKs recoil got changed making it more controllable as well.
1
what I also really like to do with the AK is 2x
first shot center mass and with a little control the second shot is almost exactly on the head
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I wonder if the greater damage per bullet is at all significant to the aim punch winning you engagements.
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Very possible, and I hadn't even considered that factor.
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To be honest against level 2 and 3 helmets the akm seems pretty strong. It's strange to me that he didn't mention that. Also the combo of lvl 2 help with level 2 vest and lvl 3 help with lvl 3 vest seems to be in favour of the akm.
I usually use M4, but seeing this the akm seems to be really strong too.
Usually when people have a lvl 3 helm, they also have a lvl 3 vest. And apart from that I think both level 2 is the most common combo. So these are the numbers I would focus on and then the akm seems to win. Maybe it doesn't win in most combos but in my opinion it does in the most important combos
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Yeah I think the most important table is the mix of headshot/chest shots. When firing at full auto you're not very likely to hit 100% headshots and the fact that the AK can two-tap level 2 vest/helm makes it very deadly.
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Yeah, if you're not a god with aim and recoil management, your best bet is to go for a chest spray and let the recoil take you up to the head. In CQB firefights that's what I always go for for fully auto weapons.
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I'll copy paste the comment I left on the YT video :
"People should keep in mind that the numbers shown here only applies to the upper chest hitbox, which is a small part of the player model. If you take other chest regions, neck, arms and legs hits into consideration (which are common in PUBG), then you end up with 7.62 weapons overall beating 5.56 guns in terms of time to kill.
And that's not even taking damage drop off into account. For example, the AKM can one shot a helmetless player up to 160m while the M416 can only do so up to 77m, resulting in longer time to kill in the 77 - 160m range."
Edit : you can check every hitbox TTK difference on this website
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This info has already been available for over a year, in a much more readable format than a youtube video. You can see DPS, TTK, Damage per hit, etc on each part of the body for any combination of armor. You can also see all of this information at the distance of your choosing, as TTK at 0 meters isn't the same as TTK at 200 meters.
http://battlegrounds.party/weapons/?weapon=AKM&armor=0&helmet=0&distance=10&htk=dmg&pel=true
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That's a good site
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came he to say that
+1
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Personally I will still be picking up the AK a lot. That sound is too good to give up just for a marginal improvement in TTK!
Also: Buff the AUG! (Just a little)
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The AUG has insanely easy recoil (almost identical to UMP), that's why it's better than any 5.56. The Groza has very high TTK but it has the hardest recoil to control.
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I've heard that's true about the AUG, but I don't have enough experience with it myself. I guess I'll give it some time in training mode!
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AUG is easily the best 5.56 gun, even better than the QBZ. It's the low recoil and high ROF, plus it's really quiet with the suppressor.
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Not to mention the bullet velocity is almost on par to the Mini 14 so you barely have to lead the shots. It doesn't need a buff. TTK isn't everything
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You can spray the AUG from 50 or 60 meters with the 4x with almost no recoil, it's insane
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huge 2nd shot recoil makes AUG useless, and UMP has a smaller recoil pattern with the same hits to kill on body and a similar TTK
AKM and UMP are both better than an AUG in practice
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The groza kills me before I can blink that shit is so OP
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It's VERY hard to control though, recoil is insane.
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I actually dont feel like that at all
the Groza is super easy to control on the first ~15-20 bullets. after that it becomes a mess tho
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Yeah it sure is. But I’m really feel like it one shots me all the time cause if I have it I can never control it but yet everyone else kills me instantaneously
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naw, its the same hits to kill on the body as an UMP, but with way more recoil and also a massive 2nd shot multiplier... the AUG is pure trash
an AKM is better than an AUG in PUBG cuz the devs suck and balance and have never fired a real gun either
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Did you watch the video? The AKM is not better than the AUG. This game is not a real life copy and never will be.
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regarding the "real gun" comment, that was to note that in real life 5.56 has basically 0 recoil... your standard factory overgassed AKM kicks like 10x harder, so why the M4 has more recoil than an AKM in PUBG is just stupid
an M416 is a modern marvel of gun design, with a massive price tag that has for a while kept it to special forces units... the AKM is a $50 mass produced piece of junk from the 60s (modern AKs are good though!)
As for balance, the AUG has way too much recoil at the start. The 2nd shot multiplier. Then it has almost the same TTK as an UMP, the same hits as an UMP, and more recoil... AUG just sucks. AKM at least has less hits to kill than an AUG often for a very similar TTK and easier recoil.
Go to the test range dude. Shoot 5-10 shot burts and compare groupings. Then consider the AKM is easier to land the hits necessary for a kill in the same time frame. Aug sucks.
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I wouldn't advocate buffs or nerfs for any gun based on this video.
Case-in-point, imo, is the AK v Beryl comparison it offers. Yes, the Beryl has a lower TTK... that's just a fact, but if you have no attachments, you're less likely hit all those shots even at 50 meters using the naked Beryl than you are using the AK.
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even with full attachments ill take the AK over the Beryl every time
the recoil is just too hard on the beryl
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Groza and AKM are only worthwhile ARs
when you consider the 2nd shot multiplier in PUBG, and the importance of hits to kill over TTK, and an UMP is better than an AUG...
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It's because the AK and Groza are the best, and only worthwhile, ARs
you get the same or better recoil pattern with no attachments, and fewer hits to kill, making it even easier to get the hits in before recoil is a problem
the 5.56 are just horrible in this game, and then when you consider the massive multiplier in recoil from shots 1 and 2, and the 5.56 is garbage
too much recoil in PUBG.... so you have a higher chance of missing, and require more bullets to down your target... the .03 sec difference is meaningless when you consider this because if you miss just one bullet you suddenly are at a massive disadvantage
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With enough practice you can hit all your shots with the first ten bullets of any 556 weapon from a reasonable distance without needing to be someone like shroud
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Many, many chicken dinners later and after 1000 hours Ill still want the most reliable gun, as the heavy recoil can be totally random
an Aug's second shot is far great than the recoil from shots 9-10
shots 1-5 are the most important, so why would I risk it? The massive early shot recoil greatly reduces the effective range of an Aug or M4 on full auto
You can easily use an ump out to 50+ meters.... an Aug can do okay at that range on bullets 5-10 but that sucks dealing with the early shot recoil
go to the range and test it out - watch the recoil from bullet 1-2... i hate it
add in the UMP has the same, or even less, hits to kill with a faster TTK than the Aug on body/extremity hits and it's a no brainer
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I knew the AKM felt like shit even after the massive buff it got. I just figured it was my potato hands making it bad. While that's still a factor, here we have data that it is, in fact, Actually Bad.
As of a few weeks ago I stopped picking the AKM up entirely in favor of an UMP or Vector when relevant. The AKM serves the same role as an SMG -- up close and personal with lacking long-distance capabilities. So, why not use a gun that's better suited for it and easier to control? Saving bag space with lighter ammo is a secondary benefit.
That said, these charts aren't everything as per WJ's initial caveat. Personally, I'll take a SCAR/QBZ over the M4 every time. The M4 is deadlier in theory, yes, but its recoil is much higher -- horizontal especially. The SCAR/QBZ might have meh theoretical stats, but in practice I'm more deadly with it due to more shots landing on target.
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I think you're reading the colors in the chart and not the numbers.
The AK is technically the worst rifle against the 1 & 2 helmets, but only by .01 seconds (10ms) compared to the best (non-groza), the m4. That's basically nothing.
On the other hand, if you're mixing chest and headshots against level 2 armor (much more realistic than only hitting headshots while firing full auto) it beats out the m4 by 70ms, a 7x larger gap than when it was behind on the headshots only.
When the AK beats out the .556 rifles it does so by a larger margin than when they beat out the AK. That's far from being a shit gun.
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AK will knock enemy cross-hair way up so it's not a 100% lose all the time
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That's a good argument
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TLDR
GROZA>BERYL>AUG>M416>AKM>QBZ>SCARL
M16A4 damn good if you can perfectly control and time the bursts.
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Except for lvl 1 vest, BERYL=AUG=M4. BERYL should be a bit faster given it's recoil, IMHO.
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agree they should buff its dmg to 49, like the rest of the 7.62 rifles
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in close range yea
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I mean just look at the numbers in that table, are your fights ever over that quickly? They're not because in actual ingame situations you never reach that full dps anyway as you will miss shots, hit the arms etc. The only situation that the table actually applies is at point black range, in which case I'd like to add a like to the table that says:
S686: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
In the actual game, recoil control, whether you have the required attachments and what you are used to matter much more than the theoretical TTK.
He's also missing the VSS from the table which is on par with the M4 when on full auto.
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Not to mention the VSS actually has a faster TTK past 100m because it does not have damage falloff like the ARs.
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yeah but at those ranges the TTK is even more irrelevant since you won't be shooting full auto and hitting every shot anyway and it is way more about damage per shot and bullet speed, the latter of which sucks on the VSS obviously.
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It’s very easy to hit a full auto spray with a VSS at 150m if your target isn’t moving laterally to you. The recoil is negligible and the bullet velocity and drop are not hard to learn.
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yes, but I did not say you could not pray at that range, I said you could not spray and hit every shot (especially in the chest or head alone like the table is about), so any small advantage due to damage drop off is irrelevant in comparing the VSS with other guns at this range, as recoil control is far more important than doing 0.5 hp more damage and the VSS with a cheeckpad has no recoil so in the situation you describe it wins anyway, but the ttk is still pretty much irrelevant in comparison to the AR's.
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If we are throwing in the vss may as well throw in the mk14 too as many people use it at close range as well.
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Is there AR dmg falloff? I was pretty sure dmg was consistent at all ranges, it that for SR's only?
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Nope. All guns have damage falloff except the VSS.
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GrAza kinda hurts my ears :)
It's GrozA. Meaning both "Thunderstorm" and "Danger/Rage".
Here is an example or pronouncement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaOXb2QRu1I&t=6
Otherwise, really great video. Good players already knew that shots to kill and fire rate is what matters, but the one to create a table of comprasion is naturally a mastermind of PUBG - the WackyJack101 :)
Now if only you could add handling (recoil) to this table...it would perfect.
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He's Danish, not Russian, so... that's just his thing I guess? They're not exactly the most closely related of langauges
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I understand and mean no offense! Just explaining for scientific purposes :)
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I doubt it's because he's Danish. He's probably been told it's pronounced Graza.
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agreed, for native speaker grAza is quite painful to hear
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But it's still pronounced as "Graza" in Russian.
It's just that Wacky puts too much emphasis on the first A. He pronounces it like "GrAHza" instead of just one smooth "Graza".
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But it's still pronounced as "Graza" in Russian.
I understand what you mean, but you are confusing people a bit here.
It's soft O because the last A is hit letter (therefore GrozAA), but O still an O. In Ukranian it would be hard O, yes.
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To all the people in here like "I feel like the AK is better though than then M4" is because it is
raw TTK is a stupid stat to consider, especially when the time difference are literally .03 seconds in a game with a built in 500ms+ of lag
The AKM in some scenarios DOES have a faster TTK than the M4. Then consider the AKM has an easier recoil pattern than a kitted M4, THEN consider the AKM requires less bullets to kill the target, AND often a faster TTK.....
AKM is a far better grab than an M4. Hits to kill is more important than TTK... or it "weighs" more. If a TTK has a huge gap, that will take precedent, but when TTKs are really narrow in time, hits to kill is king, because if you miss a single M4 bullet, you instantly add .086 to the time to kill, which is far greater than the disparity if all bullets hit.
If you need to hit more bullets, recoil also affects you more, because as you shoot more, recoil becomes more of an issue.
Then consider that for body hits, the UMP is the same hits to kill as a lot of the 5.56 gun, but with far less recoil and no massive 2nd shot multiplier throwing you off target right at the start.
Best main guns are UMP/AKM/Groza... and best 2ndary is an SKS/SLR/AWM, or possibly a kar98/m24 if youre likely to encounter peek battles.
Go to the test range and see for yourself... and dont even bother with dumping 40 rounds.... go to a wall and do 5-10 shot bursts and see which guns allow you to have the smallest grouping. I compared the Aug to an UMP and the ump is way tighter... Like if I have an AKM or Ump Ill literally just leave the Aug in the crate.
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a lot of people dont know how the guns are balanced, and also as a BR game some folks just go with what they pick up if there's not a real huge difference....
also the sunk cost fallacy
you get an M4 at the start and attachments, and then see an AK without attachments, so you dont take it, despite the naked AK still being more OP in this game
overall the gap between them isn't huge... it's not like an AKM to M4 is like the AWM to the Kar98... but overall the low recoil and 1 less bullet to kill often with basically the same TTK makes the AKM a better choice in the unbalanced game of PUBG
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But all of that is assuming that you will expend exactly the amount of shots that you need to kill. One way or the other, you will miss some bullets and you will be spraying. So for an AR the difference of 1 bullet is relatively insignificant. As he said in the video — with distance the damage will decrease. That is where the hatchet is buried in my opinion.
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Am I reading this wrong or hitting a combo of headshot and body shot means that the AKM is superior to the m4 which is why people prefer it
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416 or ak more deadly?
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M4. And the M4 and AUG have the same TTK.
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no, maybe at point blank but anything over 10 meters and the lower recoil of the AKM and fewer hits to kill will instantly overshadow a .03 sec different in TTK... and depending on the armor types, the AKM will have less recoil, fewer hits to kill, AND a better TTk...
-1†
Nice thanks, looks like there are going to be some changes to my setup in the future.
That is to say... if i come back anytime soon. Been like 2 weeks since I played due to hackers, desync, teamkillers, and language barriers (770hrs).
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TTK is one of the weakest stats to consider for ARs...
theyre all within the same range of .1 to .3 seconds
when you consider player reaction time and the built in 500+ ms of lag in PUBG, your own performance on the gun will be key
this is why hits to kill is the most important, and then recoil
this is why the AKM/Groza are the best ARs, and white the rest of the ARs are useless
for example, the UMP has less recoil than the AUG with no massive 2nd shot multiplier, and almost the same TTK
if you miss one AUG bullet the UMP is statistically better
it makes so much more sense to go for a gun that is based around hits to kill and low recoil than just raw TTK
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Can someone post a tldr for those of us at work please?
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Groza is the overall most deadly Scar is the least deadly
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Hence why I always drop the SCAR for anything other than a SCAR.
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I still take the scar over the m16. I may sometimes still keep scar over m416 if I don't have a tac stock or I'm not planning on looting anymore so not likely to find one.
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I will always take an m16. That thing shreds if you can manage burst/tapfire. I'll keep scar over m4 for the same reason as you, though. Beggars can't be choosers.
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TTK should not be your only metric
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Thankfully you can carry two weapons to bridge any gaps in effectiveness.
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Beryl - one love.
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So why would you take an AK? Its much harder to use then a m4 and there are no benefits?
Or what am i missing..
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Because it's a manly gun. It looks great, sounds great and is great to use.
It takes the right amount of attachments, just the stuff you need to make life a little easier, no frills. Unlike the M416 which is so needy with its 5 attachments slots, a gun for pussies.
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RIFLE IS FINE
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AK good simple Soviet gun, does not need decadent attachments like weak capitalist M4
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It appears to fare marginally better against L1 and some L2 gear than an M4. And if you don't want to carry multiple types of ammo you may choose to pick up an AK in some cases.
Personally I just love the way it sounds. I'm not skilled enough that a 0.05-0.1 second difference in TTK will help anyway.
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This test does not take personal skill, reaction time and game sense into account. As WJ said, there are more that determines whether or not a weapon is deadlier than the other, even with TTK taken into account.
For example, the m16 has the best TTK overall but not having autofire alone is enough for me not to pick it up. I'd still pick up MK47 or SCAR cause sometimes that just works for me.
It's pretty tough to determine the best AR in an uncontrolled situation because there are so many factors that determine how long it takes for you to kill someone (how wide you peek, uphill/downhill, recoil pattern and the pubg exclusive client side bullshit)
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AK is more common, requires less stuff to be good, ammo is generally easier to find that 55 ammo on the large maps thanks to the revolvers.
Also there's just going to be personal preference in play. If you look at the raw stats yeah, you should probably use the M4. I use the AK because it has a lower skill floor; I'm not a great shot and I need guys to die quickly in the instances where I do land my shots. If you're good at putting bullets on target yeah, you should probably be using an M4.
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Wonder if it would be useful to put these guns in a rating order which assigns them a number, then do the same for optimally kitted spray patterns. Add the two ratings together to get a list of the best ARs. u/WackyJacky101 thanks bud!
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Screenshot of table but you should really listen to WJ's explanations which talk about the important differences
EDIT: WJ should be using a single or two-hue color scale per column, as you only have one axis of important information. By having multiple hues, it's difficult to tell how the colors line up without constantly looking at the top right.
Also, do any weapons change rankings based on gut shots vs chest shots?
Why is the M16 and Mutant not within the 5.56 and 7.62 sections?
He explains in the video, its because the others are automatic weapons
Sorry, at work right now and unable to watch the video.
Because they are not full auto
Personally I use this site a lot, to check stuff like your last question.
You can check literally any combination with any gun for damage, hits to kill and time to kill. Besides that you get a spreadsheet below showing all the guns and allowing for you to sort it however you like.
Really great site.
Yup, been using this site for a while, it's the only site with distance calculations.
But it doesn't have mixed bursts (1 head, rest chest), etc, from what I can tell
Ah yeah, you're right about that. You could swap between Hits to Kill and Time to Kill and figure it out, but it's a bit of a hazzle. And doesn't provide a nice table.
Knew exactly which site it was before I clicked it. Excellent site
Or the fact that for colorblind people wackyjacky's table is unreadable
Another important factor is how reliably you can hit from your spread. Sure the beryl is best dps and qbz is one of the lowest, but they can more reliably land a greater percentage of shots in their spread from longer distances, whereas the beryl has some of the most difficult recoil.