Source
r/Yugioh101•
ProlificPolymath

Why Do Meta Decks Become Noncompetitive?

Disclaimer: I’m brand new to the game so please only use slang that’s in the glossary of this subreddit so I can (at least, hopefully) understand your answer.

I know about meta decks and I saw a post just then asking if Blue Eyes was still meta and the response was that it’s not. What exactly stops a deck being competitive? Do they just release cards that neutralise effective decks and other cards which make new meta to keep everyone buying the cards?

It doesn’t seem like playing competitively is all that much about skill as it is repeatedly buying new cards. What I mean is, it’s not like a chess grandmaster beats a moderately skilled player because he has better pieces, right? It would stand to reason, it seems to me, that if someone has junk cards that they’d be beaten quite easily by someone with much better cards even if they were less skilled so deckbuilding is extremely important (it also seems to be to be more fun than duelling itself but perhaps I’m just being nerdy) but I can’t quite understand how decks become noncompetitive other than deliberate manipulation by the company that makes the cards.

Can someone clarify this for me? Sorry if it’s a stupid question.

Posted Nov 12, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

316
mtebrinke•

Most likely some cards of the strongest decks will be hit on the banlist, making those decks lose important pieces.

Also, powercreeping is a thing. Konami releases new, more powerful cards with each set, making the older, powerful cards less viable.

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ProlificPolymathOP•

This is what I suspected, it seems a shame that this is such an important feature. It would be nice if there were a set list of deck styles and all of them had cards released simultaneously on a semi-regular basis so you could keep running the same deck(s) and really know them and have to be creative with the cards involved in your type of deck as well as staples of course.

I suppose I just feel that way because I’m only familiar with the game through the show and it’d be nice to be able to watch the pro duellists who all have their own specific decks, archetype, style or whatever.

Great answer by the way, thanks.

1
khornebeef•

They do. Most older decks that were competitive and were hit on the ban list got new support once they were power crept. Monarchs for example got some really broken support in the emperor of darkness structure deck once monarchs were basically unplayable. Blue eyes got similar treatment with Alternative and both Cyber Dragons and Thunder Dragons have received very powerful support cards that preserve their central strategy.

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ProlificPolymathOP•

I always liked Cyber Dragons, did they recently get support?

1
khornebeef•

Lots. They got an archetype link monster, they got a new fusion that can fuse from banished monsters (Cyberload Fusion), they got a searcher/recycler that synergizes well with Galaxy Soldier in Cyber Dragon Herz, they got a (pretty bad) Power Bond searcher in Cyber Pharos, a generic Cyber Dragon searcher in Cyber Emergency, and an archetype monster reborn that protects from destruction in Cyber Revsystem. The best cards are obviously Emergency, Herz, and Cyberload Fusion since Emergency adds a lot to consistency, Herz maintains card advantage, and Cyberload synergizes well with Eltanin and Overload Fusion. Pair this with the numerous reprints they've been getting (Cyber Dragon Revolution structure deck was just stocked again at my local Gamestop) and Cyber Dragons are not only much better than they've been in ages, but also dirt cheap to run at a core level. Emergency, Revsystem, and Herz will be the most expensive pieces since they were just released and aren't in great supply due to lack of reprints, but you can do without Emergency and Revsystem in casual games. They're also going to get a new level 1 in Cyber Dragon Nächster which Monster Reborns any machine fusion monster with 2100 attack or defense (Invoked Cydra will get even better), will serve as a third Machine Dupe target in addition to Core and Herz, and will make One For One an even better tech option.

2
hobopwnzor•

In any game or event that centers around technology the most competitive levels will feature the best technology that is allowed. If you go into a NASCAR race with a poorly maintained car youre automatically at a disadvantage even if youre the best driver in the world.

The first step is acquiring the technology, then practicing with it.

In Yugioh the best technology is the newest cards. If you dont have the most powerful cards you wont do as well. And in a game that doesnt remove cards from the playable pool that means constantly making cards do more, or hit harder, which means the previous decks do less and cant compete.

Decks move in or out of the meta when 1) their tech is banned (forbidden/limited list) or 2) new tech comes out that beats the old (power creep)

6
NekoGlitch•

In Yugioh the best technology is the newest cards.

Laughs in BA

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ProlificPolymathOP•

Yes but take your example, I believe NASCAR is like Formula 1 so I’ll use that. The drivers from different teams (Ferrari, McLaren or whatever - I’m not a car guy) have different technology but all of roughly the same ability and improvements in the technology tends to be in the components of the cars and therefore improves them all and so the only differences are slight efficiency differences and so on, right? This means that skill is far more important as a factor and a driver can drive for the same brand year after year without worrying about losing competitiveness whereas a pro duelist couldn’t keep running the same deck year after year as the company behind the cards are deliberately improving certain decks over others to make them the only viable and then rinsing and repeating.

If they would release support cards for all styles of deck (obviously you’d have to have agreement on some finite list of decks, I don’t know how feasible that is) simultaneously but slightly less regularly then people could keep the same style of deck and have to be a little more creative to combat the new relative strengths and weaknesses of other decks. As a spectator, that seems a lot better to me although if I were a pro duelist that would be a little more daunting.

1
hobopwnzor•

Might be more interesting to watch but makes less money in card sales.

The slight differences you describe are why there are multiple meta decks in a given format. Sometimes a deck is only meta because it deals with the top tier deck effectively.

1
Gh0sT07•

Do they just release cards that neutralise effective decks and other cards which make new meta to keep everyone buying the cards?

Short answer? Yes. Long answer? Yes, to a degree. New cards are released that are better or do things that are different. Sometimes the answer is that they put cards from a deck on the ban list and the deck isn't as good anymore so people play something else.

It doesn’t seem like playing competitively is all that much about skill as it is repeatedly buying new cards.

Theoretically, any deck can win an event as long as you make all the right card choices. But generally, yes, newer cards typically do more, are stronger, offer more protection, etc. Zoodiac format saw monsters that could boost their attack and attack directly and destroy cards. Then directly after that format you had SPYRAL format which saw cards that could proctect themselves from being targeted, destroy 3 cards at once, and spam monaters.

Then a bit later you had the Knightmare cards come out which people combined with gouki and could stop your opponent from special summoning anything at all, protected themselves from targeting, destruction by battle and card effect, lowered all your opponent's monster by 1000 attack, and make their effects not work.

The dark warrior link ftk deck being so strong will likely see cards placed on the ban list in order to stop it from being meta.

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ProlificPolymathOP•

Thanks for your detailed answer!

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RuFiOhYT•

Most common reasons: Limited and Forbidden list, and Power Creep.

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Smaye96•

Either the ban list makes a deck unplayable by banning it's most important cards like what happened to Zoodiac or it hits enough cards that the can can not perform as well as the other top deck's like what happened to Spyral or a better deck comes out in a new set. As new sets come out better decks and cards are constantly coming and this is called Power Creep. To play at the highest level you need to put money into the game but you also have to have the skill to use your cards correctly. A top player playing a cheap deck like Paleo will beat a new player who has a Gouki Knightmare deck. Skill is nearly more important than money in some formats.

1