Source
r/Stellar•
KodineDreamin

Does r/Stellar need a thread for Skeptics Discussion?

This is a poll to see whether or not another thread would be useful to have skeptics discussion instead of having it only be contained in the r/Stellar Daily Chat thread. This current poll will be used for data and is not final.

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If this poll gets approved, the idea would be that skeptics discussion will be encouraged to be in the r/Stellar Skeptics Thread and certain guidelines will be posted in that thread in order to promote rigorous and civil debate, as well as critical discussion.

The frequency is still up to debate but I think a monthly thread would help keep things in track and people can always come back to have critical discussion, instead of having to repeat themselves everyday in the r/Stellar Daily Chat.

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The point for this is to more or less remove lengthily skeptic discussion in the r/Stellar Daily Chat while enforcing and encouraging critical discussion to be had in the r/Stellar Skeptics Thread.

I believe r/Stellar Daily Chat should be used more for Daily Chat and news not technically allowed on the front page of r/Stellar instead of simply talking about markets and price. However, small comments about price will not be allowed in the r/Stellar Skeptics thread and will still be contained in the r/Stellar Daily Chat in order to prevent people from creating threads simply because Stellar achieved the 'xth' position in market cap, or because you woke up from a dream where XLM hit '$x' price. (This can always change in the future by polls, ie. no price speculation allowed in the r/Stellar Daily Chat)

The r/Stellar Daily Chat will still be a containment thread for low-effort price speculation. (This can always change in the future by polls)

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If this gets approved, there should also absolutely be NO 'TA' (technical analysis)/price signal discussion in the r/Stellar Daily Chat. It seems many people are still not aware that TA is a literal opinion and no one can predict the market, thus if you want to speculate about the market, you will invite skeptics to discuss with you. I encourage you to discuss it in the r/Stellar Skeptics Thread.

Reminder, just because were discussing skepticism, it doesn't mean you can insult people. All Rules, including Stellar community guidelines, subreddit and Reddit rules will be enforced, on top of the guidelines that will be posted in the r/Stellar Skeptics Thread.

Disclaimer: This current poll will be used for data and is not final.

View Poll

Posted Dec 6, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

6656
OFrost•

100% yes to a Skeptics' Thread, or anything that encourages structured debate, or helps to break down the echo chamber.

13
StellarChurch•

I think by creating a separate thread for skeptics the echo-chamber will be further enforced because it will then be against the rules to post that kind of stuff in the daily. Skeptics then have to post in a monthly thread that is somewhere buried on the 4th page latest at the midst of the month. The daily will then only be about "positive" posts.

Skeptics tend to get way more down than upvotes compared to moonbois and you can see that in the poll too. The poll as of now is 19:11 voting for No separation but these 19 (63% of the votes) only have 40% of the Photons. I know that doesn't matter in this poll but it's a nice visualization of what is a wee bit off in this sub.

10
MrMirgy•

I agree. I like the idea of having a skeptics threat to aggregate those types of discussion, but I don't think it should be disallowed in the daily thread. Having it categorized and all in one place makes it easier to reference rather than digging through the sub.

Genuine questions are often thought of as skepticism in threads. Seems like daily threads should allow any type of discussion, moderated and by upvotes and downvotes. I skim past stuff I'm not interested in, but that doesn't mean unpopular things should be removed.

8
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

No where did I say we will disallow discussions in the Daily Chat.

The only types of discussions that will be removed is 'TA/price signal' discussions. However, 'low-effort' price speculation will still be contained in the Daily.

5
MrMirgy•

I was responding to a comment which said

it will then be against the rules to post that kind of stuff in the daily

and saying it should not be against the rules.

You do say

The point for this is to more or less remove lengthily skeptic discussion in the r/Stellar Daily Chat

but it sounds like you mean that as promote it elsewhere, not delete comments that are skeptical discussions in the daily. My general thought has always been the daily should be mostly un-modded.

2
StellarChurch•

No where did I say we will disallow discussions in the Daily Chat.

I said that because of this part:

enforcing and encouraging critical discussion to be had in the r/Stellar Skeptics Thread.

Which pretty much sounds like it. I hope everything just stays as is.

​

1
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

I'd have to disagree with some points.

The point of this is to do exactly what u/OFrost said: to encourage structured debate.

That doesn't mean ALL debates have to be made in the Skeptics thread, but allows those who do want to have it to freely post there without having their thread removed from the frontpage/downvoted to oblivion or in the Daily Chat where most people wouldn't even want to have a huge discussion and rather want to skim through things.

It's just to leave an extra room for those who do want to have a critical discussion, not to divide things apart.

FYI, some people would rather have a discussion and continue it the next day instead of just talking about it once in the Daily Chat and/or having a thread that doesn't quite fit in the front page with all the other news.

somewhere buried on the 4th page latest at the midst of the month

The Skeptics Thread will always have a link in the Daily Chat so people can reference to it quickly.

0
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[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

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1
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1
CryptedUnited•

Most of skeptics have been banned or silenced as far as I know. How is this going to be useful when only moonbois are left? I think it's good as it is right now. The daily thread is active and dividing this into two parts again is just moving eyes away from the few critics left.

8†
PickingUnicorns•

While I don't feel all skeptics were banned, I do agree that deviding would not be a good move. It creates polarization, while also taking up a precious slot to have a thread on another subject in.

8
OFrost•

It's to create a culture of debate and supporting your beliefs with evidence, which is a fundamental part of skepticism. It's the willingness to admit that you might be wrong about your investment, or accepting that certain things can be improved, which in turn drives progress.

There are still too many people here who whip out ol' reliable and resort to character attacks or insults if someone says anything vaguely negative about XLM, because they don't know how to support their arguments. It's not as though they can't - anyone can learn to debate or learn about crypto.

My hope is that it would set an example to the moonboys and kids on here. Newcomers would have a choice - learn and grow with the grown-ups, or verbally masturbate with people who are in it because the Stellar logo looks cool and it's a bit like XRP.

6
PickingUnicorns•

I agree, I'm totally pro skepticism. I would just prefer to have the skeptics debating in the same place as the moonboys. To have 2 threads that are either really bullish or really skeptic would polarize the community i'm afraid.

People that resort to character attacks or insults in response to skeptic rethoric should get warnings and ultimately bans, it's against the rules. So i'd rather have more enforcement on that side than to create 2 groups.

1
OFrost•

I agree, I'm totally pro skepticism.

yay

I would just prefer to have the skeptics debating in the same place as the moonboys. To have 2 threads that are either really bullish or really skeptic would polarize the community i'm afraid.

Yeah, I think you're right. Especially about the rules.

One advantage I can think of to have a separate thread is to 'protect' (not that they need protecting) users who want to object to something or voice a criticism, but fear getting downvoted to hell for it. I feel like that kind of comment in a skepticism thread is less likely to be downvoted, even if it's a bit of a dumb comment, since the underlying theme is to educate.

2
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

Breaking rules = banned.

This has nothing to do with people breaking rules and instead trying to create another to thread to promote critical discussion for skeptics instead of having everything contained in the Daily Chat thread.

3
CryptedUnited•

The daily thread is active and dividing this into two parts again is just moving eyes away from the few critics left.

6
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

Daily Chat is supposed to be active, hence why it's called a Daily chat.

-1†
L0Lufunny•

You've just literally ignored the most important part of his comment, twice.

As for me, I also think keeping everything in 1 thread is much better, since i feel the daily chat is pretty balanced and splitting it might just create 2 echo chambers.

1
StellarChurch•

I just voted and have 166k Photons but my vote has almost no weight? I think these community-points are a failure and mods shouldn't vote.

4
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

I didn't make it a governance poll, just simple yes or no.

Edit: er I don't know? It says photons remaining for some reason but when I made it I clicked on the 'no-weight' option. I'm not looking to govern and looking for data.

EDIT 2: Ah yes, it's not a weighted poll but apparently photons will be released? I'm still trying to learn as well lol.

EDIT 3: Ignore the 'photons'; this is purely for data so i'm looking for the number of votes and discussion; not governing here for new rules.

2
StellarChurch•

Understand, but it's the first result shown in percentage (based on Photons) and with you as a mod with 1.1 million and another person in the millions voting immediately pretty much sets the tone going forward/influencing the herd or those indecisive.

3
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

I have no opinion other than to say this is purely for data purposes and I'm not looking at the photons weight.

Idk who else in the millions voted, but I didn't plan this with other people, if that's what you are trying to imply.

1
StellarChurch•

Sorry, no that's not what I wanted to imply. It was just an observation that when I voted as 4th there were already 2 votes with more than 2.2 million while mine and the other accounted for 7.5% only.

I'm just saying that mods shouldn't vote on any of the polls if for data or not as it will skew the votes in a specific direction. That's just my opinion of course and since you can, you also have the right to vote as you wish.

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[removed]

1
Stellarman4279•

Here we go, an argument about photons and who has the power to say something with weight behind it. Because that’s going to work out in the long run. All that is doing is giving more power to the people who think that everything they say is correct on the daily. Perfect example: ”I have 200K photons and you only have 150K so must mean what I say goes...”.

I can already see it now. Give the people on here more of a reason to argue over something stupid, that will hold up well

-1
b1tccModerator•

Photons are tied to your contributions, if you're active in the sub and frequently share quality content I'm sure people will support you. I think Photons are important to balance an opinion from those that share value to this community, as opposed to someone that created an account and has no history or contributions.

No system is perfect but I think the Community Points is in the right direction and much better than having double accounts created in the last 24h with an equal vote to those of us here for more than one year fighting and vouching for maintaining a balance in this sub.

7
Stellarman4279•

Lol again, please read what I just said. Let me ask you something, tell me what “quality content/posts” are? What measures something that someone says to be “quality”? And who deems them as quality; the people with a high photon amount? Which is why I commented. Because I can positively tell you that pretty much everything that was posted throughout this year on these Reddit’s (TAs, charts, price analysis) have been wrong(because nobody knows what will happen)....so again, what is quality?

0
b1tccModerator•

I'm very sure not all of them were wrong, I have read comments that we're pretty correct but not all of it is about charts, price analysis. You can't resume content to those 3 types of content. There's so much more quality content than the price of XLM.

1
SpeakoEspanglish•

It might sound ridiculous, but dividing the discussion into different threads doesn't mix well with my laziness. Having an extra thread to keep track of seems a little bit annoying to me.

3
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

There's been people who would prefer to have critical discussion instead of making a thread, and the Daily Chat isn't easily citable so a monthly thread where people have critical discussions doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

4
Stellarman4279•

Pretty sure I’m the one who tagged you a few weeks ago asking you guys to do this for the community, so thank you for finally creating a post for it as I think it is needed. I hope that it does get approved so it filters out moon boy gibberish in the daily chat

1†
b1tccModerator•

You're wrong then, this is an old idea discussed quite some times for the past year. We never reached a consensus about it, some like, other don't, hence we recur to the idea from time to time.

3†
Stellarman4279•

You’re wrong, for commenting. I directly brought this matter up to Kodinedreamin personally along with another member who clearly didn’t know of there being prior discussions that you speak of. Because I was unaware of this, didn’t call for your need to tell me I was wrong

1
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[deleted]

1
shuttleXorg•

Let's keep people accountable for the truth with up votes, down votes, comments, and discussion.

Skepticism is good for conversation and shouldn't be ostricized unless you're willing to ostricize those who over hype as well.

3
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

For anyone wondering, this is what I am going for: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/search?q=%22Monthly%20Skeptics%20Discussion%22%20&restrict_sr=1

2
AirBoss24K•

I'm not sure how much value another thread would add. A lot of what's currently in the daily chat is discussion back and forth containing healthy skepticism from both sides of the market.

If the daily thread ever got to the point where it's completely overloaded with that type of conversation, I'd say it would make more sense at that time.

Currently, there's a healthy number of comments in there that I can enjoy reading through without having to jump between threads.

2
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

If the daily thread ever got to the point where it's completely overloaded with that type of conversation

It kind of does right now. Whenever you have to go to the Daily Chat, there's ALWAYS a huge chain of comments talking about the market and they go back and forth, trying to have a debate. Yet, most of the topics is purely based on the market and nothing to do with Stellar or the technology.

A Skeptics thread will also allow people who don't want to make a thread about it (or it doesn't feel appropriate to have it on the front page) to post it on the Skeptics thread and discuss with people there instead of having their huge post in the Daily Chat, and then having to post it the next day to continue that same discussion.

0
Keepgrinding82•

Absolutely not!

Keep the daily for debate going both ways and let the conversations work themselves out. Even heated arguments work themselves out often and people gain a level of respect for each other.

I joined another sub and quickly seen that any debate gets deleted. In fact unless it's regurgitated good news, it gets deleted. Then I go on their telegram and they are begging people to join on their Reddit to make it look more active. That was a total turn off. I feel like giving them advice to let there be debate because it will make their sub more active and even bad actors get called out. I really hope Stellar's Reddit don't divide the conversations here. It will be a major turn off!!!

2
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

Well it wouldn't be 'dividing the' conversations, but rather leaving a room for people to have critical discussion instead of them having to just post it once in the Daily Chat and then constantly repost it the next day and etc.

Nothing will be removed except 'TA/price signal' discussions. All the other discussions can still be had in the r/Stellar Daily Chat. I even said 'low-effort' price speculation will still be contained in the r/Stellar Daily Chat.

This is just to see if people want an 'extra room' to have critical discussion and rigorous debate.

1
Keepgrinding82•

Haha I can tell you really want this lol. Honestly I think it's a bad idea, if the interpretation of critical discussion means talking about potential projects, partners and tech?

Look. How many people go on the daily chat just lurking? Especially people checking out a project to potentially invest in? And what's the percentage of conversations about the tech and partnerships and possible projects? I'd say maybe 20% of the talk in the daily is actually talking about current projects Stellar is working on. So go ahead and make a special thread for that. But you'll really bury community discussions on tech and potentially lose lurkers trying to decide if Stellar has substance.

1
KodineDreaminOPModerator•

Ill admit, my OP was a bit vague.

But, it's just to give room for those specific people who want to have rigorous debate without annoying people in the Daily or the front page.

Though the price discussion is for a different topic, I still don't see what would be wrong with another thread. No one is forcing you to have critical discussion there, but if one person decided to, they have the freedom to post there or the Daily. In that skeptic thread, they have to respect more and comment in a critical way, that's all what the point of this thread/poll is, to see how many would like an extra room for critical discussion.

1
Keepgrinding82•

I'd actually like it if it could keep a permanent spot up top like the daily? Maybe if it sat just below it. That would be great for people to easily get involved and still leave it easy to find for people passing through.

Is that a possibility to pin it at the top so it doesn't get buried?

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
blackstarcbd•

Stellar doesn’t encourage people to build on their ecosystem. In fact they discourage. Boris is a complete miserable prick. That’s why my team built on the ripple protocol. They actually incentivize and work with you. Good luck getting a response from stellar. 17 emails and I get an attitude filled email by dumb fuck Boris.

They obviously choose developers to build exchanges. Yay, let’s build another shitty stellar exchange that’s not compliant with fincen. Stellarport is shit. I think he paid two losers two million to build that shitty exchange. There was no competition. You can get a professionally built cftc compliant exchange built for $500k. shake my head. I wonder what his next pivot is.

1