PicoPSU vs ATX PSU for powering small server with several HDDs.

I've been considering various options for building a small all-purpose server that would run 24/7. I wanted it to be very power efficient while retaining ability to run mainstream linux distros. That in the end meant setting on some cheap Apollo Lake or Gemini Lake 4 core with 4 SATA ports like J4105-ITX.

The issue I have is how to efficiently provide power to board that idles around 10W. There are two options I see:

  • PicoPSU around 90W. Main pro is better efficiency, but some shops recommend against using 3.5" HDDs with them. I wanted to put 2-3 WD Reds in the build. I'm also worried about power spike when disks spin up.
  • 80 Plus Bronze 300W ATX PSU like this one. It is actually cheaper option (and much easier to source), since I plan on using Fractal Design Core 500 case there is no extra space wasted. It will certainly have zero issues with peak power draw, but I'm worried about how much power will it use when server idles.

Do you have any experiences to share about this? Or some reviews that test ATX PSU efficiency at 10-20W.

Posted Dec 7, 2018, 10:43 AM UTC

1420
AccountIsTaken•

Lets assume that the ATX Bronze PSU has a efficiency rating of 75% when running at 30w and below (Worst case and would most likely be up around 80-85% depending on 110v vs 240v). Drawing 20W of power would equate to pulling 27W from the wall to give you the 75% efficiency. You have then wasted 7w of power per hour. This translates to 0.168KW per day of inefficiency. Let's round to 0.17 for calculation sake. I don't know how much power costs in your country but here in australia we usually pay around 25 cents per kilawatt. This would mean I would pay 4.2 cents per day in wasted power.

Pulling Info from this sheet which is the data sheet of a 60w ac-dc adapter, the typical efficiency is listed at >=88%. Plugging 88% into the above calculation gives 2.7W of wasted power which equates to roughly 1.6 cents per day.

Efficiency at such a low load is basically an insignificant consideration when you are comparing cents per day. Hell, worst case scenario as outlined above, 2.6 cent per day difference equates to $18.9 over the course of 2 years. It would work out cheaper so long as the ATX PSU is greater then $18.9 cheaper when examining a 2 year lifespan.

5
reddanitOP•

I'm in full agreement with your math. It's just the very first assumption you are making that I'm not sure about. I'm literally worried that 80 Plus Bronze PSU might just as well have sub 50% efficiency at around 20W.

EDIT: I also hope to use it for much longer than 2 years.

0
AccountIsTaken•

Tom's Hardware tests PSU efficiency including at 20w load. This test is for a white label PSU (not as efficient as a Bronze) that hits 68.6% load at 20w. This is also a higher wattage PSU which will also have worse efficiency at low wattage than a 300w. It won't hit 50%. Even if it did, you would be looking at around 5 cents a day difference between a 50%-88%. It really won't be noticeable.

3
leetnewb2•

I've run 2x3.5" HDD with a PicoPSU (might be the 120), but they were much smaller capacity and I don't know how much the spin up power spike varies. I could conceivably test when I have time to shuck next week.

3
reddanitOP•

I was thinking of 3 or 4TB Reds, as in my country shuckable 8TB ones are very hard to source. Though specification for them says they have peak power at 1.73-1.85A on 12V rail depending on capacity, so number of platters apparently isn't supposed to make much of a difference. This does sound kinda fishy to me :)

2
b3rr14ul7•

I would also like to build something similar to this and use a pico if it is possible. I can say I have a small pico that has been running 24 7 for years on an atom mono with one ssd and it has been great zero issues.

1
reddanitOP•

In the shop I'm looking at almost all picoPSUs have quite explicit warning about manufacturer specifying that given model is not supposed to be used to power 3.5" HDDs and 5.25" ODDs. Oddly enough it doesn't seem to be related to their rated power at all...

1
b3rr14ul7•

Probably to much load running the motors. They will spike when spinning up

1
fonix232•

Where do you get this idea of better power efficiency? It’s actually the other way around. An 80-rated PSU will have an efficiency of 80% at 100% usage - meaning if output is 90W, it will pick up roughly 112.5W. On the other hand, a 300W 80-rated one at 150W load will have a much higher efficiency, meaning it will use around 165W.

2
reddanitOP•

While it is quite easy to find efficiency numbers for 100W+ loads, I haven't found any actual numbers for 10-20W. 80 Plus specification outright allows for ignoring everything that happens below 20% of max power. Max efficiency is also somewhere around half load and gets lower with dropping power usage.

3
linerror•

Why limit to 90W pico?

1
ptirmal•

The power supply extra draw die to to lower efficiency isn't much. I have a J3455 build with (3) 2.5" drives and measured with a killawatt at the wall the most I was pulling was under 15w with a Silverstone SFX 450w gold PS.

1
ClintE1956•

I always buy more psu than needed for a build. They last a long time. Never know what you're going to need it for in future. When my new corsair psu idles the fan does not run. No dust going through psu, heat is negligible. Bigger and more efficient psu will run cooler, lasting longer.

1
webtroter•

The thing here is efficiency. A "big" psu at lower wattage with be less eficient than a "smaller" psu at the same wattage.

From OP:

The issue I have is how to efficiently provide power to board that idles around 10W.

​

1
8fingerlouie•

I recently put together a new NAS, and I was recommended a 400W be quiet! PSU. I have been nothing but happy with NAS consists of a Coffee Lake i5, along with 6 hard drives (2 x 6TB WD Red, 2 x 6TB Seagate IronWolf, 2x8TB Hgst He 10 - shucked WD My Books), and the whole box draws <50W idle, 60-65W when running snapraid sync, and 110W when booting.

The build is in my post history.

I would go for no less than a 150-200W PSU, as most PSU ratings I’ve seen seems to have their “sweet spot” around the 50% mark.

the be quiet! PSU has a Gold rating, and up to 93% power conversion efficiency. This is the one I bought https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply/straight-power-10/759

1
reddanitOP•

Haha, I literally have be quiet! straight power 10 (albeit 500W version) powering my main rig :) It is a bit on expensive side for my NAS though.

For NAS I'm looking to get something with lower power still. The board I've linked in OP by itself idles at around 4W and I'd prefer entire NAS to stick somewhere under 20W at idle.

1
8fingerlouie•

Gonna be hard to get anything to idle at 20W with 4 drives. WD Reds are probably your best best, and they idle around 5.4W.

Add to that board 4W, cpu 7-10W, ram 4-5W and fans 1-5W. That’s 20W right there, and you don’t have any drives yet :-)

1
reddanitOP•

The board I linked idles at 4W including integrated CPU and it's fanless :)

2
cjalasYou’ve Been Served•

Get yourself a 160w pico psu. Best thing ever created for motherboards.

1
adktz•

Also consider that voltage ripple over time isn’t great for hard drives, or so I’ve been told, and an ATX PSU may have less than the brick you’ll use with your PicoPSU.

1