Source
r/Stoicism•
Sysgimp

Self worth and women

Hello everyone,

this is my first post on this subreddit and i got a question, basically the title itself:

How can I keep my self worth independent from other people/ especially women?

Short explanation:

I'm in therapy for over a year now and I had a quiet eventful past. Bullying at school, only living with my mother/grandma and plenty more stuff led to the issue, that I occasionally define myself completely through the appreciation of women (Sex, dates, etc.); my self worth is generally not very high.
At the moment I'm reading The Good Life Handbook and it's helping pretty good. But there is no thought or wisdom that helps me to overcome exactly my problem from above and I really hope some of you could help me out or recommend a book.

Thank you in advance for your effort!

Posted Dec 11, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

620
I-am-Scylax•

Well, one way is to really internalize what you hear. I had a similar issue. Eventually I had to accept that I was an attractive and good man—because enough women told me so. Let good feedback in.

5
SysgimpOP•

Thanks for your comment! You are absolutely right; accepting the own good is pretty important but also quiet a struggle for me. I never learned to be proud of anything I did. It's all given and natural. Even my own actions and my character, which stoicism says are the only things to be proud of, are nothing I could appreciate.

2
pitmutt•

How to be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci and A guide to the good life by William Irvine are very approachable texts of applying Stoicism in the modern world.

I think the topic to review is the dichotomy of control, which is that there are certain things that are up to us and then there's everything else. The Enchiridion by Epictetus begins with:

Of all existing things some are in our power, and others are not in our power. In our power are thought, impulse, will to get and will to avoid, and, in a word, everything which is our own doing. Things not in our power include the body, property, reputation, office, and, in a word, everything which is not our own doing. Things in our power are by nature free, unhindered, untrammlled; things not in our power are weak, servile, subject to hindrance, dependent on others. Remember then that if you imagine that what is naturally slavish is free, and what is naturally another's is your own, you will be hampered, you will mourn, you will be put to confusion, you will blame gods and men; but if you think that only your own belongs to you, and that what is another's is indeed another's, no one will ever put compulsion or hindrance on you, you will blame none, you will accuse none, you will do nothing against your will, no one will harm you, you will have no enemy, for no harm can touch you.

What people think of you is not under your control, so worrying about it is a waste of energy.

4
SysgimpOP•

Thanks for your advice, it's really appreciated, especially the books. I will definitely check them out as soon as I can.
And I also think, that the approach of control is the key point. But it's so hard to accept that even your own look doesn't affect anything.

1
sqaz2wsx•

Read Epictetus on freedom Book 4.1 to learn how to stop tying your worth to women.

3
jonbristow•

What people think of you is not under your control, so worrying about it is a waste of energy.

but you'd want to improve the way people think of you, which is under your control.

1
pitmutt•

Can you elaborate?

1
jonbristow•

If people think you're a bad person (and you aren't) you want to change their opinion right?

If people think you're dumb, you don't read books (but you do, you just don't show it), you want to change their opinion?

You want them to think differently, see you differently

1
pitmutt•

I disagree. Spending time and energy trying to change someone's opinion is futile.

You need to know your virtues and live by them, everything else is not in your control. If you start living based on how someone will think of you, you are not living by your virtues, you are living by theirs.

1
aidanrt•

Well a big thing I have learned from meditation is that there's really no point in even having a self-image. All it is a standard that you have to hold yourself to, especially damaging when your self-image isn't accurate.

Anyway that's harder said than done. I'd suggest doing more things that get you out of your head, like socializing more, or doing hobbies/work that get you in the zone.

And yknow maybe try to find a relationship. It may be better for you to just ease the pain of having low self worth, rather than trying to actually fix the problem at its source. Some problems aren't really fixable, they just have to be eased. Loneliness, pain, everyone has these things and there's no way to completely expel them... You kinda just have to sooth them.

2
SysgimpOP•

First point: I think everybody has at least some kind of self-image, otherwise there would be nothing they could be proud of or work on in the first place. Nevertheless there is no point in having it; that's true. Something I have to think about.
Second: Absolutely. I just watched Football with a friend because of that reason.

Third: I had a relationship for 5 years, and I felt so terrible, because at some point the other person can't compensate for your low self esteem anymore. And I'm single for over 3 years now and there were like one woman I seriously dated, or i even wanted to date. It's so hard to find somebody I'm interested in.

2
duffstoic•

It's certainly not easy! But one thing that helps is to keep focusing back on what is in your control, and what is good to do, and base your self worth on the improvements you are making to yourself bit by bit. If other people recognize these too, that's nice, but if they don't, it doesn't really matter because you know you are becoming a better person and that this is what ultimately matters.

Oh, and as a nice side-effect, people are generally more attracted to people who work on themselves and are trying to be good people. But don't do it for that reason, do it for yourself, and because it's the right thing to do.

2
SysgimpOP•

Thanks for your comment!
I'm already doing that and work very hard on myself. But the actual difficulty for me is to acknowledge the own improvement and to be proud of it.

2
duffstoic•

Maybe it would helpful some times to reflect on what you've accomplished and how far you've come. It can be hard to see it when we are in the midst of trying to improve and focused on all the things we have not yet accomplished.

1
tomatillost•

It'll happen, but you need to focus on getting yourself into a good place. That's good you noticed that in your previous relationship, your self esteem was a problem. The other person can't fix you or your holes. The right person, though, will give you a safe place from which you both can explore and grow.

I would seek out therapy or something more than a self help book. Instinctually you know that because you came to us. You need other voices reminding you that your opinion of yourself is not the only one. You need a professional voice to help you evaluate reality because everything you see, including women you'd be attracted to, are being filtered through a distorted lens. Also, be specific. Your problem is not with women in general, but trying to find a person who might be compatible with you. That's waaaaaaay different. It takes the focus off how others react to you generally. You can say, well, "I guess we weren't compatible. We just did not hit it off!" Not "she's rejecting me because I'm a POS." She's a person too, with a history, emotional baggage, and a life, and it's not your issue if you don't fit into that.

2
SysgimpOP•

The first part is well said. Good thought to have.

And I am already in therapy for over a year now and I'm doing all kinds of group therapy too. The last bit that remains is my self-worth tie to women and my ability to be proud of anything i achieved.
"We are not compatible" is actually a good statement. Thanks!

1