Source
r/MagicArena•
bwalk

Question about interaction between sagas and bounce spells

Question

Is it possible to bounce a saga back to your hand with the last chapter ability is on the stack, before the saga is sacrificed? My opponent just did this and I was mighty impressed, also this feels horribly broken. I am not sure how to interpret the rules.

714.3. Sagas use lore counters to track their progress.

714.3a As a Saga enters the battlefield, its controller puts a lore counter it.
714.3b As a player’s precombat main phase begins, that player puts a lore counter on each Saga they control. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack.

714.4. If the number of lore counters on a Saga permanent is greater than or equal to its final chapter number, and it isn’t the source of a chapter ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack, that Saga’s controller sacrifices it. This state-based action doesn’t use the stack.

And:

"Once the number of lore counters on a Saga is greater than or equal to the greatest number among its chapter abilities—in the Dominaria set, this is always three—the Saga's controller sacrifices it as soon as its chapter ability has left the stack, most likely by resolving or being countered. This state-based action doesn't use the stack. (note: it's only sacrificed if it still has 3+ lore counters on it as the state-based action checks)"

Edit: Ok, thanks, I got it. It still sounds like stupid design to me but whatever.

Posted Jan 11, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC · edited

39
TheMagicalSkeleton•

The last rule you quoted answers the question you have. "the Saga's controller sacrifices it as soon as its chapter ability has left the stack." So as long as the ability is on the stack, you can bounce it since it hasn't been sacrificed.

9
OllieFromCairo•

Right, while the ability is on the stack, the state of "if... it isn't the source of a chapter ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack" is False, so it isn't sacrificed. You can bounce it with the trigger on the stack and recast it, or flicker it and put the I ability on the stack (which will then resolve BEFORE the III ability.)

1
Nordic_Marksman•

You need to full control to do that, but it works just like planewalker loyalty abilities(not sure if all of them are like this but I think so) it still triggers if it's removed while the ability is on the stack so you can -3 planewalker and bounce it pretty sure(never tried it but playing vs them it works that way).

1
Naszfluckah•

Very few abilities in the game care about where their sources are when they go to resolve. An object on the stack exists independently of its source, and unless it specifically requires its source to be somewhere specific in order to do something, it won't care where it goes. For instance, [[Gideon Jura]]'s third ability would obviously do nothing if you bounced him before resolving the ability - there is no Gideon to turn into a creature. And [[Myr Servitor]] will not return itself or any other Myr Servitors if it leaves the battlefield before its ability resolves. Otherwise, the only ways to stop something on the stack are to counter it, exile it, or disrupt all of its targets so it "fizzles".

1
MTGCardFetcher•

Gideon Jura - (G) (SF) (txt)
Myr Servitor - (G) (SF) (txt)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call

1
BigLupu•

It works, but since arena is kinda dumb with priority, you have to go full control mode to do it.

1
5thhorseman_JacetheMindSculptor •

Is it possible to bounce a saga back to your hand with the last chapter ability is on the stack, before the saga is sacrificed?

Abilities that have been put on stack resolve no matter if the source is or is not still on the field (although some of them may fizzle due to lack of a legal target). See 602.8b and 608.2g.

714.4. If the number of lore counters on a Saga permanent is greater than or equal to its final chapter number, and it isn’t the source of a chapter ability that has triggered but not yet left the stack, that Saga’s controller sacrifices it. This state-based action doesn’t use the stack.

Note the bolded part. The saga is not sacrificed until after the last chapter has resolved. Thus, it is indeed possible to bounce it to your hand when that chapter goes on stack.

1
madwarper•

By default, the game will automatically pass priority to allow a Spell/Ability resolve.
So, as your Pre-Combat Main Phase begins, your Saga will get it's counter as a Turn-Based Action. It's triggered ability will be put on the Stack and you'll automatically pass priority to let it resolve. After it resolves, and the trigger leaves the Stack, it's sacrificed.

So, if you want to be able to respond to your own Triggered ability, either a) Play with Full-Control Mode (Shift+CTRL) enabled or b) Set up a Stop in your Pre-Combat Main Phase.

1
mimeplosm•

I've bounced my eldest reborn after it's second phase during opponents turn. Haven't tried bouncing it in my upkeep during its third phase though

0