What deck is strong in a D&T, Miracles and Sneak&Show meta?
If there is a deck what is good against all three...
Posted Jan 20, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC
843
Enchantress.
7
The Wish build is about 70% against Miracles, 60% against DnT and 50/50 against SnS.
3
Lol wut Enchantress folds against dnt hard
-4
Green white? You have elephant grass, solitary in the main... I could see blue green maybe, but I haven't ever lost a match against dnt with green white. Swords is a dead card against you... And you just fetch basics.
What card breaks Enchantress?
10
Have no idea about the match up or w/e but Thalia, sanctum prelate and flickerwisp I imagine are pretty game breaking at certain times
1
At times! But Enchantress can operate as a fair deck. And most are running a few sterling Grove. I don't think sanctum prelate is good unless she comes out early. It has heavy 1 drops but the helm/rip kills... And doom wake kills most of what they bother to play.
Wasteland is good if the Enchantress player doesn't know what they're going against - but I just auto get a forest.... Getting a savanna with a growth on it nuked is a one time mistake.
Doomwake is a card though and I play two main.
I dunno. I'd say it's pretty even but I will have to check the match more and play it out. Dnt is pretty common locally though.
3
Reanimator is good vs sneak and show and miracles, however; D&t can be rough without a fast start. It’s likely that nearly any deck is weak to one of the three. As always, I’d suggest going with what your most proficient. I competent player is better then trying to hedge against the field abs playing with a deck you’re less experienced with IMO.
6
These 3 represent all the deck types in the format. If there was something that favored vs all archetypes it would be the #1 deck all the time.
As others have said, master what you like instead and you'll do better.
4
i am not too familiar with this deck so someone else who knows something should weigh in, but i feel like storm might be ok here
3
I play A LOT of storm, and miracles is a skill match up. The better player wins a lot of the time. D&T is a slaughter, they are super dead. Sneak and Show however is a pretty tough matchup.
2
BR Reanimator seems pretty solid.
2
Infect seems pretty good. D&T and Miracles are both favored, and S&S is pretty even.
2
Colorless Green 12 Post (the Ancient Stirrings control-oriented build). I recommend this list at the moment.
It has over an 80% win rate vs Miracles if you’re even moderately competent; I’ve been playing the deck for 7 years, and I can still count the number of matches I’ve lost to Miracles on my fingers. You’re the control deck in the matchup, they have to go aggro. And Back to Basics is just an annoying speed bump when you have plenty of basics, 4x Candelabras, and Krosan Grips in the board.
D&T is also a very strong matchup. Mom is basically just a vanilla 1/1, Warping Wail hits the majority of their creatures, and All Is Dust or Ugin absolutely wreck them. Like with Lands, Maze and Tabernacle are very strong here, except that you have the added benefit of being able to double the amount of Maze activations with each Candelabra (which also mitigate against Port and let you save Needles for Wasteland). Their Karakas is usually actively bad against you, because it just lets you rebuy a casting trigger (and you can even copy theirs in a pinch).
Sneak and Show is a mostly favorable one. With Probe banned, they’re always taking a pretty big risk with Show & Tell. You have easy access to Karakas, often at instant speed, and can even use Candelabra to get multiple activations out of it against Sneak Attack. Really, the only cards you truly fear are Sneak Attack into Emrakul and Show & Tell into Omniscience (for builds that run it). And you have maindeck Needle against Sneak Attack and Maze limits Griselbrand to a draw spell.
2
I play a similar list since a long time, I am curious how do you feel about 4 wapring wail? I´ve almost immediately cut 2 for 3 Seer (cutting also From Beyond). Seer is a good card in basically every single match up and I often found wails just bad lotus petals. From Beyond is really really situational, so imo it doesnt make sense to include it in main deck. I personally run Awekening zone in side vs moon effect/mana hate decks.
1
Wail is amazing. It kills over 2/3 of the most commonly played creatures in the format, while also giving the deck game against combo. I mean, it’s a single card that answers Pyromancer, Thalia, Revoker, Hymn, Show & Tell, Infernal Tutor, Reanimate, unflipped Delver, Swiftspear, Blighted Agent, Burning Wish, Flickerwisp, Green Sun’s Zenith, Natural Order, Cabal Therapy, Bridge From Below, Fiery Confluence, and so on.
From Beyond is infinitely better than Awakening Zone. It’s colorless, so you can find it with Stirrings and survives Ugin/Dust, the tokens are threats so that it actually does something proactive on an empty board, and it’s a tutor that can even grab All Is Dust.
1
Yes but against Pyro, Hymn, Show, Reanimate, Delver etc it´s really difficult to make it through the various dazes, pierces etc.. I agree it´s quite strong against Storm (tho playing a trini or a sphere is much better than leaving open mana for Veil). I agree FB is better than Zone but Ive always found it so slow. The tokens are not really a threat since its too slow for that and surviving All is Dust usually is something not necessary (when i succesfully cast AiD usually the game is over). TKS is a really good answer against combo and little creatures as well, while giving you a really good body/clock at the same time. Ofc it costs 4 but I often found playing on turn 4 TKS more impactful than playing Veil on turn 2/3. I guess its just a matter of preference.
1
I find TKS to be too slow against combo. TKS does great work if you can survive the first few turns, but I prefer the ability to have countermagic up on T2. (Or even T1. I occasionally run a 1x Ancient Tomb to Crop for in a combo-heavy meta.)
Most of the combo decks where Wail shines run little-to-no countermagic. BR Reanimator runs none, Elves runs none, Dredge runs none, Storm runs none, Depths runs none. SnS runs a single playset of FoWs and maybe a pair of Pierces, but if they’re waiting an extra turn or two on S&T to protect it with Pierce, odds are good you’ll have the mana to pay anyway.
I find it particularly useful against Hymn though, because many opponents tap out to cast it with no FoW backup because they simply aren’t expecting countermagic from a nonblue deck. And if they’re 2-for-1ing themselves with FoW, you’re at CA parity anyway.
But it’s the flexibility as both spot removal and countermagic that makes Wail so strong. It’s one of the main things that really transforms CG Post into a true control deck instead of just a ramp deck. TKS is a very strong sideboard card, but Wail gives you lines not normally available to a nonblue deck.
The FB tokens are definitely a threat. It’s basically our Bitterblossom. They’re slow, but that’s fine. Unlike other Post variants, CG doesn’t need to focus on just jamming an Eldrazi as fast as possible because it’s focused on inevitability. Against an aggressive deck, FB is basically a Maze. And once you wipe the board, the tokens snowball damage quickly. But against a slower deck like Miracles, Grixis, Lands, StoneBlade, etc., FB represents a steady stream of virtual card advantage that dodges most of their removal. Any matchup where you see multiple turns with nothing really happening, FB is great. Plus, being a tutor and an additional card type for Promised End is good too.
1
BR Reanimator and Dredge
1
Dredgebwill make them cry
1
Would probably play some kinda G/B depths deck or pox. Think targeted discard is super strong again the only things I would worry about are plows, karakas, wasteland if you playing depths.
Would probably look at u/negator77 's, grisel puff, or sharkcastermage' s lists
1
Depths folds pretty hard to DnT
4
There is way more to worry about with Depths against DnT. Plow, Wasteland, Karakas, Flickerwisp, Mother of Runes and any flyer, Revoker, and to a lesser extent Port. There are like 20 main deck cards than disrupt or answer Marit Lage, and even more post-board. The midrangy versions are better than the all in ones because they can protect better and recoup disadvantage, but its by no means a good matchup.
2
In my experience Thalia is annoying and post shutting off your mana is rough. DnT has some beaters too they only need to swing a 4/4 or a 2/2 double strike is enough of a clock and they can pay 2 for the elephant grass
1
What 4/4 does DnT play?
1
Batterskull
0
You are gonna have trouble attacking with a Germ token with Elephant Grass out though...
Might I suggest Mirran Crusader holding a sword?
3
Hah. Pretty rare to see Enchantress. Thanks be to jeebus
2
Easy. Eldrazi Aggro.
1
Wow, that's a horrible sub-optimal suggestion for that meta.
1
Deck actually plays well vs all of those in my experience. D&T is tough but lets face most players with that deck play it subpar. Sneak is easy cause you bring in endbringer on show and tell. Plus you have main deck karakas and another in the baord with spyglasses. And miracles needs back to basics to beat you other wise you can just play one or two uncounterable eldrazis and your beating face.
1
Interesting, my experience is that if you want to make either Miracles or D&T more than 50% you basically give up the other of the two. Since one is heavily focused on mana disruption, while Miracles is especially weak to the lategame cards.
Sneak & Show is also slightly unfavoured in my experience, sometimes you 'get them' if they Show & Tell into a naked Emrakul, but since they usually play both Sneak Attack and Omniscience these days it isn't always good enough. Especially with hte Blood Moons they ussually run in the sideboard, it's rough.
Eldrazi certainly has play versus all of these decks, but it would definitely not be my recommendation.
I don't know if I want to take player skill about player on the other side of the globe with a certain deck into account XD
2
Player skill with Eldrazi deffinitly helps, if you know what hands to keep and how to sideboard correctly, you can disrupt any combo deck in legacy. Its basically just the best aggro stompy deck that has existed in this format.
Also on a side note only like 10 people in the world have truly mastered D&T. It is a contstantly changing deck that requires a full understanding of all other decks to opperate at full efficiency. When im seated accross from a D&T player thats not one of these people, i know ill have atleast a slight edge in that they probably wont play the deck as good as they could.
1
It sounds like a meta low on GY decks, I would say any of the fast GY-based combo decks would be a good place to be in the meta.
1
Dredge has good matchups against DnT and Miracles.
SnS is quite hard, allthough you could maindeck ashen rider as DR target and add 2 ashen riders to the board + an extra DR
1
[deleted]
1
Elves, probably. Miracles is 50/50 but you should roll the other two
-5†
i don't think elves is that good against sneak and show
8
Yea show and tell is one of their worst matchups
7
Wtf... Elves gets smoked by Sneak and Show...
6
Besides the fact that SnS owns Elves, miracles is a favored MU and not 50/50.
2
And how about Grixis Control with a counterheavy sideboard
Grix Control has game against pretty much everything, and if the meta is limited to a narrow selection you can probably find a build that gives you the edge. None of those decks are operating on axes you can't interact with.
I feel like this is the correct answer. S&S is in for a very rough time, it really fucks D&T if you keep Mum off the board and you just keep KCommand-Snap-KCommand-ing, and is pretty even with Miracles. The latter being one of the most skill intensive matchups in the format at present.