Source
r/doctorwho•
junkstuff019

Unpopular opinions, Doctor Who edition?

Discussion

And I mean ACTUAL unpopular opinions. No “I hate Rose” or “Series 11 is terrible” or anything like that. What are your hot takes? Gimme the juiciest you have.

Here are mine;

  • The Cybermen are shite villains and should stop being written into the show.

  • River’s story ended perfectly and she should not return.

  • John Simm is the best master, in all three of his appearances. He was also horribly underused in The Doctor Falls

  • Ten was poorly used in Day Of The Doctor. Comic relief was all he contributed.

  • Lastly, a larger Tardis team brings more to the show than one companion (not sure if this is unpopular or not but I see people complaining about the size of the Tardis team right now)

Posted Feb 22, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

1879
face_the_ravenCapaldi•

Hell Bent deserves the reputation of Heaven Sent. Heaven Sent is amazing, but Hell Bent brings the "Clara becoming like the Doctor arc" that started back in Series 7 to an end. I consider how Donna's exit was handled one of my least favorite aspects of Series 4, so I feel that Hell Bent subverting this and centers Clara and her feelings about being mind wiped is pretty powerful. Hell Bent has pretty amazing acting between Capaldi and Coleman, like the scene where Clara asks how long the Doctor was in the confession dial for. I also prefer that Gallifrey and the Time Lords being in the background than the central focus works better overall. Hell Bent is my favorite episode.

21
wirralriddler•

When you think it like that the argument of "Clara's death was perfect in Face the Raven, her coming back ruined her death" becomes very shallow too. If the whole arc is her becoming like the Doctor then she also needed "coming from death" moment as the resurrection is the one thing special about the Doctor. And you can't resurrect someone without killing them off first.

So no, Hell Bent doesn't cheapen Clara's death in Face the Raven. To tell the story that is told in Hell Bent, you need Clara dead and Face the Raven was a perfect death story. Hell Bent is just focussed on very different concepts altogether.

9
bowsmountainerClara•

I also don’t really understand that argument. 9’s sacrifice for Rose is still sad even though he survives, so is 10’s for Wilfred, and so is Clara’s for Rigsy.

3
AmongFriends•

The Time of Angels / Flesh and Stone and The Angels Take Manhattan are phenomenal Weeping Angels stories that are actual Doctor Who episodes (Sorry, Blink. You're great, but you're not really a regular episode).

They will most likely be the best Weeping Angels stories we're ever gonna get outside of Blink.

I love the Angels like a lot of people do. But they are a gimmick monster that can't speak, can't move on camera, and have no real discernible goals besides zapping people back in time.

It must be a nightmare to try and write a proper Doctor Who story around them and probably a reason why Steven Moffat has only written two stories with them since Blink.

The Time of Angels / Flesh and Stone and The Angels Take Manhattan takes the Angels and does something interesting and fun with them to make them work in an actual Doctor Who setting and too often gets ridiculed for doing so.

17
_Nobody_No-One_Capaldi•

Here's an unpopular opinion: The literal deus ex machina in The Parting of the Ways is one of the dumbest, laziest and most ludicrously illogical moments in all of Doctor Who. You're telling me that looking inside the console makes you a god? What about all the times the Doctor fiddled with the console in Classic Who? Why did no one ever use this convenient power source again? WHY DIDN'T ANY OF THE BILLIONS OF TIME LORDS DO THIS DURING THE TIME WAR???

16
verifypassword__Capaldi•

Oh god, it literally is a deus ex machina. A god from the machine.

10
icorrectpettydetailsSilence•

It makes it especially dumb seeing as how the last time anyone looked into the console (literally the story before that one), they turned into an egg. Rose had absolutely no reason to think opening the TARDIS up like that would help in any way. And then there's the issue of forcing one of the most powerful machines in the Universe to open using a standard Earth vehicle...

6
WhiteWolf222Jack Harkness•

I think the TARDIS helping Rose can be easily explained. It has been shown to be somewhat sentient, and knows that Rose just wants to save the Doctor and stop the Daleks. Meanwhile, the Slitheen who got turned into an egg was a criminal and trying to use it for her personal gain. I still think the ending was pretty lazy though.

1
verifypassword__Capaldi•

The Cybermen are shite villains and should stop being written into the show.

Yep, definitely an unpopular opinion. But why?

River’s story ended perfectly and she should not return.

I'm pretty sure this is a popular opinion. At least I hope it's a popular opinion.

John Simm is the best master, in all three of his appearances. He was also horribly underused in The Doctor Falls

I think that this would be a popular opinion for the public? I think Missy is a farrrr better Master, and I think he had a good role in The Doctor Falls. The perfect and poetic end for Missy (that he killed herself) couldn't have been done without him and so his appearance gets a thumbs up from me. I think that him literally killing The Master for good is not underused.

Ten was poorly used in Day Of The Doctor. Comic relief was all he contributed.

Tennant actually thought that his role was only limited to comic relief too. I think it's an okay role for him to have but I would've preferred some more Time Lord Victorious as it's set immediately after The Waters of Mars.

A larger Tardis team brings more to the show than one companion (not sure if this is unpopular or not but I see people complaining about the size of the Tardis team right now)

I think the complaints are more to do with Chibnall's handling of the TARDIS team (or should I say Team TARDIS), Yaz barely has anything to do, Ryan barely has character, and Graham is the only amazing one due to Bradley Walsh.

11
junkstuff019OP•

  • For me it’s mostly that the cybermen have been used so unbelievably poorly and way too often. I like Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel, but every other story they appear in I just get bored with. They aren’t threatening, interesting or particularly relevant anymore. I think even the writers struggle to find something for them to do, and I feel like they only bring them back as they are classics.

  • I see a lot of people begging for River to make an appearance, not sure how the general public feel but I don’t think there would be much of an uproar against her returning.

  • for me, Simm’s appearance mostly feels like Tennant’s in Day Of The Doctor. He makes a few jokes, couple of references to his previous appearances and then mildly contributes to the current incarnation’s arc. He served a good purpose, but despite being the “devil on Missy’s shoulder”, he doesn’t do anything of significant evil throughout the episode. Sure, he aids in the Cybermen plot at first but that’s all pretty much off-screen and he quickly resolved to walking about helping the Doctor before he decided to just not. I’d have preferred him to have played as an actual antagonist, it would have served both him and Missy very well. (Oh, and it’s a sin tru didn’t include his regeneration scene)

  • I think Ten’s reaction to Eleven’s mere existence would have been far more intense considering this is just before “The End Of Time”. Not saying I wanted pure hissy fits from him but he seems pretty unfazed by the fact that his death has now been 100% confirmed to him.

  • for me the only weak link in the current Tardis team is Yaz. I actually really liked where they went with Ryan and Graham, I just wish it held a little more weight. For me, Clara was the only companion for far too long. It’s why Series 1 works so well; first you get Rose, and then by the time her relationship with the Doctor has gone as far as it can, you throw in Jack into the mix to shape things up. Also the recurring characters like Jackie and Mickey, who were both fleshed out and interesting, kept the dynamic from getting stale.

^thats basically my reasoning for all of the unpopular opinions I mentioned, I get some people won’t agree and that’s fine, not suggesting they delete the Cybermen from the show (ayyy)

3
TheCoolKat1995Smith•

My most unpopular opinion? I'm not as fond of Series 9 as a lot of people are. In fact, I tend to favor Series 8 and Series 10 over it when it comes to the Capaldi era. Series 9 starts well and ends well. "The Magician's Apprentice" is an interesting, experimental opener in that the entire second half of that two-parter is just the Doctor and Davros talking, psychanalyzing each other, laying traps within traps for each other. It's fascinating, and you've got to love Missy playing every side at once to try to get what she wants (and get Clara out of the picture. Likewise, the three part finale is both suitably epic and suitably tragic, taking the Doctor and Clara's intense yet unhealthy relationship to it's logical, tear-jerking conclusion, and "The Husbands Of River Song" strikes just the right balance of sad and sweet as one last goodbye for River,

The middle episodes of Series 9 though, tend to be either dry, dull, or heavy-handed. Toby Whithouse builds up an interesting mystery in "Under The Lake", a ghostly spin on your usual base under the siege story, before he follows it up with an incredibly lackluster conclusion in "Before The Flood" by having a bootstrap paradox be the cause of everything that happened (the fourth-wall breaking teaser scene even gives away that solution in the first two minutes). Plus, after Lake Silencio, Trenzalore, and the confession dial business on Skaro, I had officially started to get tired of this show trying to convince me the Doctor was going to bite the dust when he so obviously wasn't. "The Girl Who Died" is a fun if average viking romp, filled with Moffaty dialogue, that packs some punch in the last ten minutes with Twelve's rash decision to save Ashildr, while The Woman Who Lived" is honestly pretty forgettable. Ashildr is for me what Danny Pink is for a lot for people: one of the most bland and uninteresting recurring characters in the Moffat era. Most characters become more interesting after they become immortal (like Captain Jack): Ashildr just became more wooden.

"The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion" is a pretty clear allegory for modern terrorism, ISIS and their radicalization tactics. Doctor Who has done social commentary before, and it's usually quite good at it. Trouble is, "The Zygon Invasion" has all the subtlety of being smacked over the head with a sledgehammer, and I'm not just talking about the real world parallels. There are several plot points in this two-parter that are way too obviously telegraphed, like how Clara has obviously been captured and replaced by a Zygon for the entire first episode before she finally reveals herself in the last five minutes, or how a team of soldiers who know they're dealing with manipulative, murderous shapeshifters still let themselves be talked into walking into a death trap anyway. Like about half of the episodes in Series 9, "The Zygon Invasion" runs on some of the most stock Doctor Who tropes, and the most noteworthy thing about it is the way the two-parter wraps up: the Doctor utterly, verbally destroys Bonnie's delusions and talks her into relenting by sharing his own war experiences, which is a surprising and refreshing way to wrap up a story. "Sleep No More" is once again a middle of the road episode. Mark Gatiss really wanted to emulate the found footage genre of horror movies, and he succeeded. Trouble is, found footage movies are some of the most forgettable horror movies that exist, and that's what "Sleep No More" is at it's worst, rather forgettable. I do like that the villains actually won in the last thirty seconds, unbeknownst to the Doctor. Considering how invincible the Doc can seem, it's good to see him lose a battle or two.

Series 9 stands out to me as a season that has a mix of great episodes and average, sometimes boring, episodes; not unlike your usual Doctor Who season. Which is why I've always been a bit surprised that it's hyped up as not only being the best Capaldi season, but also the best season of the entire revival and a season long streak of perfection that will never again be touched. I mean, Series 9 is good, but I don't think I would call it a masterpiece of television.

11
mnvyage•

agree 100% with this

4
asmryoda•

daleks are awful in most of their stories

7
InkPixelZTom Baker•

  1. Daleks are miss-used not overused.

  2. The Flood Cybermen are the best version of them (to bad that they aren't canon anymore).

  3. The Pting stole every scene it was in and i adore it.

  4. The Woman Who Fell To Earth is the most fresh NW will ever be.

  5. Give the Tardis interior a biomechanical look.

  6. I believe Chibnal choose to have The 13th Doctor have blond hair as a reference to The Comic Relief episode which also had the 13th Doctor being a woman.

7
BronzieCock•

Not only was The Woman Who Fell to Earth the best episode of season 11 by far, it's just a great episode of Doctor Who in general. This was the only episode of the season to properly balance all three of the companions, especially Yaz, the down to Earth perspective makes it feel like a Torchwood episode(which a lot of people have pointed out), which is something I thing really works for this story, and the crane jump/speech at the end of the episode was Jodie Whittaker's best moment of the season. I do agree with most that a majority of the episodes of season 11 are average, but I do think The Ghost Monument is the worst episode of the season, and one of the worst of NuWho. Resolution was another excellent episode in general, with it being both one of the best holiday specials(and I actually love most of the other ones) and modern Dalek stories.

6
DonnyMox•

S11 had some flaws that need to be fixed for S12, but it doesn't deserve ALL of the hate it gets.

6
F1SHboiPertwee•

I reckon Macra might actually exist.

5
DarthShade1799•
  1. Series 2 is the worst of Davies' and Moffat's run combined.
  2. Both Clara and Bill should have stayed dead.
  3. Series 3 has the worst finale
  4. The Snowmen is my favorite Christmas special
4
PongWithTheLongDongnew McGann•

Honestly your series 2 opinion should be way more popular if it isn't already, that series is so weak.

7
verifypassword__Capaldi•

Agree with point 1 so much, the only good story Series 2 has is The Girl In The Fireplace.

5
discipula26•
  1. ⁠Series 2 is the worst of Davies' and Moffat's run combined.

I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion.

  1. ⁠Series 3 has the worst finale

100% agree with this

4
bowsmountainerClara•

I agree with 3 and 4. Whole series 2 is the second worst series imo, series 6 is still much worse. I also don’t think Bill should have stayed dead (though Twice Upon a Time Opens up the possibility that the end of The Doctor Falls was just her hallucination before death). And Clara did stay dead. By extracting her, she was able to complete her 2.5 series long arc of becoming a second Doctor.

1†
lucidevilishdetails•

Yes the Clara be dead part face the raven was a perfect ending to her.

0
GuestCartographer•

Osgood is a godawful, totally unnecessary character.

4
LemonadeSh4rkAdipose•

It's illegal to say that.

4
Putin-the-fabulousDonna•

I like fear her, its not great but it think its ok

I dont like listen, the plot is all over the place and doesnt make sense when you really think about it.

Vicent and the doctor is massively overhyped. Its fine but not the masterpiece people make it out to be

4
TheVisitation2019•

The 5th Doctor is the best, followed by the 6th. Also, my favorite eras of the show are the 2nd, 5th, and 6th Doctor's ones.

The Husbands of River Song was mostly awful, and ruined her character by adding a bunch of other "love interests" for her.

Classic Who is significantly better than NuWho.

State of Decay is one of Tom Baker's best stories (if not the best).

Into the Dalek, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Time-Heist, The Caretaker, Mummy On the Orient Express, and Flatline are all perfect 10/10 stories.

Human Nature/The Family of Blood is the best 10th Doctor story.

They should have kept the Delaware theme for Classic Doctor Who season 10.

The 6th Doctor's outfit is way better than the 13th's.

The 13th Doctor's screwdriver is absolutely hideous.

Missy is the best Master.

The End of Time and Time of the Doctor left much to be desired as Regeneration stories (the better ones being Caves of Androzani, The War Games, and The Tenth Planet)

Talons of Weng-Chiang is a story I could never bother to finish. The negative depiction of the Chinese was very unwelcome.

The Stolen Earth/Journey's End was overcrowded, and suffered for it. Plus, the "stupid waste of regeneration energy" was unacceptable.

4
AmongFriends•

The Husbands of River Song was mostly awful, and ruined her character by adding a bunch of other "love interests" for her.

Were they actually love interests? River is essentially conning them. I don't think she loved Hydroflax at all. I'm just not sure what you mean.

Should River not have any romantic interests outside of The Doctor? Even fake ones for a con?

3
TheVisitation2019•

Personally, I think there was something really cool and special about her relationship with the Doctor. The level of devotion they showed each-other doesn't bring to mind a couple who's having constant affairs, let alone other spouses. There wasn't any context for that in any of her previous appearances, anyway, even when she was conning someone else. Personally, I didn't like it, and that's what this thread is for, right?

1
AmongFriends•

I don't think it was an affair or a situation with constant affairs really. River hasn't shown any actual romantic interest in any person outside of the Doctor. Sure, she lusts after some men, but that's hardly an affair.

I loved Husbands because we get to see what River does when she's not with The Doctor, a man who she had to most certainly "play nicer" around. To be fair, The Doctor has plenty of adventures without River as well.

I just like that The Doctor, although hugely important in her life, isn't the ONLY important thing in her life. She lives a life outside of The Doctor and that life isn't always as clean as he would like. I certainly don't think it's infidelity by any means.

Just discussing. Nothing personal.

2
TheVisitation2019•

I think that's a fair opinion. I don't know, it just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I never really thought about it being more of a con-job with her, to be honest. Although I don't like her methods, it at least makes more sense now. By the way, thank you for being interested in a reasonable discussion. It is very much appreciated!

1
junkstuff019OP•

I never got why people argue that Ten keeping the same face was “wasting regeneration energy”. He used enough to survive the blast but managed to keep the same body, hows that a waste? Seems like a win-win to me.

1
TheVisitation2019•

The show had already established that the Doctor could regenerate 12 times, so 13 Doctors. That publicity stunt cost him an entire incarnation, and it's not even like the 10th Doctor stayed for another season afterwards. He only stayed for a handful of specials! He might as well have just regenerated then. You compound that with the War Doctor (who was, admittedly, a good character), and suddenly, the 11th Doctor is the last one. It adds needless complication to the continuity and cheapens the idea of regeneration significantly. At least, that's my take.

2
junkstuff019OP•

First of all, it was Moffat who decided that he’d actually used a regeneration in “Time of the Doctor”. Up until then it was pretty clear that it was supposed to have prevented the use of an incarnation.

Secondly, I’m sure if the Doctor could heal himself without hanging every time then he would

2
TheVisitation2019•

Well, regardless of the fact that Moffat finalized the use of a full regeneration in that instance, it still became a major sticking point when all is said and done. To me, it looked like all the energy required to regenerate was expended. He just put half of it into the hand to avoid the full process. The hand received enough energy to generate a new body, after all. So, he didn't really regenerate, but he used a full one up anyway, if that makes any sense. It just feels wasteful to me. If he had stayed another season or two, it would have seemed like the half-regeneration was more well-spent. It felt like the cop-out finales for both the Ponds and Clara: they die, but they don't really die, but they still leave for a convoluted reason.

2
LemonadeSh4rkAdipose•

He might as well have just regenerated then.

He did regenerate then.

0
TheVisitation2019•

He did a partial regeneration. He admitted as much himself.

"You see? Used the regeneration energy to heal myself, but as soon as that was done I didn’t need to change. I didn’t want to. Why would I? Look at me! So to stop the energy from going all the way, I siphoned off the rest into a handy biometric receptacle. Namely, my hand. My hand there. My handy spare hand. Remember? Christmas Day. Sycorax. Lost my hand in a sword fight. That’s my hand. What do you think?"

He only went far enough to heal himself, and that's it. It wasn't a full regeneration.

2
CluelessAndBritish•

As I always say when this comes up:

  • Series 11 is better than almost all of the Moffat Era except series 5 and maybe 10

  • Clara was the worst companion of the revival

  • Heaven Sent, while still in my top 10, isn't as perfect as everyone says it is.

  • More people dislike S11 because of the Female Doctor than you realise.

But finally, my biggest unpopular opinion:

  • The Producers of the show have a track record of spending money badly, and have been getting away with this for years
4
junkstuff019OP•

Agree with all of this tbh. Although there’s a lot of love for Moffat and Capaldi on here, that’s because this is an active Doctor Who forum. General public interest severely declined during Moffat’s run and even a lot of fans steered away from the show.

0
CluelessAndBritish•

I think there are three big drop off points for the people I know who stopped watching it - the End of Tennant's run, midway through Series 6, and the end of Smith's run. And a number of them came back to the show after Whittaker's first episode, albeit dipping in and out (for example, a lot of them watched Rosa and Kerblam, but didn't watch Demons or ITYA). And if you're going to do that with any post 2010 series, S11 is the best one to do it with

0
junkstuff019OP•

That’s exactly the same with most people I know. The show just got too convoluted and smug for its own good after a while.

0
CluelessAndBritish•

Man, is that an apt description or what?

1
CareerMilk•

Didn't we just have one of these bloody posts last week?

3
OrangeGinger1963•

breathes in I love S11 13 is one of my favorites Hell bent is good I love S7 I think 11 and Clara are better than 12 and Clara 6 is one of my favorites Im not a huge fan of 7 I adore the TV movie Victory of the Daleks IS my favorite dalek story The paradigm need to come back I loved David Bradley in Twice Upon a Time And i dont hate but dont love Vincent and the Doctor.

3
[deleted]•

Unpopular for reddit? There is literally nothing wrong with The End of Time. The complaint that Tennant's ending might have ruined things for Smith seems pretty silly since if you look at the viewing figures it clearly didn't. Who cares about what some hypothetical statistically insignificant normies may think? And I think having the Doctor scared and alone at the end is a perfectly valid choice that helps it stand out against the usual bittersweet, putting-on-a-brave-face-for-the-companion stuff.

And Simm is great, skeleton hobo and all.

3
junkstuff019OP•

I LOVE THE END OF TIME SO MUCH

4
AmongFriends•

There is literally nothing wrong with The End of Time. The complaint that Tennant's ending might have ruined things for Smith seems pretty silly since if you look at the viewing figures it clearly didn't.

It's not about viewing figures. That's not the point. It's about the rather resentful tone of the the whole thing is what people are referring to.

It's like a president before he leaves, he talks about how much he doesn't wanna leave, how he's being forced out, how he could do so much more, how this new guy is gonna come and take over job, a job he still wants, and his last speech to the public is him on the verge of tears saying he doesn't want to go.

And as this beloved president walks away from the podium on the verge of tears, immediately after that, and I mean, immediately...

His successor walks up to the podium and says, "Hey, everyone! I'm your new leader!"

You can see how someone's initial instincts are, "Screw this guy!" and not, "Yay! A new president!"

3
PongWithTheLongDongnew McGann•

Series 11 is one of the best series.

Clara is the best companion.

TV movie is fucking great.

2
Ibsen5696•

1/3 of this makes me want to go to the pub with you and get drunk and talk long into the night.

2/3 makes me want to glass you.

Respect.

8
bowsmountainerClara•

Clara is the best companion.

That’s not an unpopular opinion.

1
Karissamm•

9 is the best doctor. Eccleston brought so much to us in his one season and we should be grateful that he brought it back.

2
junkstuff019OP•

That’s not really unpopular, for me his run is the best the show ever got

2
Karissamm•

Every time I meet a fellow Whovian I always get backlash. Maybe that's why I think it's controversial.

1
junkstuff019OP•

I suppose, but most people here seem to love him regardless.

2