Source
r/SuperDragonballheroes•
masterage

High-Rank Play: Defense CAA Spam (VS) Defense Mirror (VS) Anti-Defense

High Rank play is very different from low rank play. You will generally not run into Pure R2 rush decks since they are essentially auto-wins for the Defense decks you will commonly see up there. I'm in A rank, working on getting to that S+ rank list.

Also note that this is a PvP list, and will not help you in PvE.

Defense CAA Spam decks use multiple copies of Defensive Stance and High Voltage abilities to essentially become unkillable except for Pierce effects for the turn they either pop their damage, or wait for you to pop yours so they nail you on the next turn. These decks realize that you only really have to deal around 24k damage to deal with a non-Defensive deck and the game makes it easy even without Grand Priest to do so. Defense's hallmark play, however, is the R2 [Xeno Vegito Kaioken +GRD Summon] Module (Super Namekian Saga - Defeat Dark Giant Slug to unlock Capture Stage). Without Pierce or GRD to 1, you simply can't kill him (as he retains his absurd arcade stats, and this isn't a bug), and even Berserk Goku w/SA w/CAA + Grand Priest + Fu will do 5 to 6k only against him. And since a defensive deck has the threat of R2ing you regardless, a deck not on this list is forced to all-in on R2... which leaves the defense deck rested and generally able to go first next round and murder you. These decks when pure are a bit harder to identify than the other two since they share Graphics with many other threat types (Beerus in particular). Additionally, there are Avatar and No Avatar versions depending on what mode Ranked is in. Also of note is that this deck largely ignores CIs and Stamina usage at all, since it largely rests R1 and R2.

Decklist:

  • SH2-SEC Cell (Xeno) - for anti-R1. This is important against Anti-Defense, which has an R1 mode explicitly for decks missing Cell X.
  • SH6-59 Iwne - one of the game's rare damage debuffers, which is near to impossible to fight against and hits all common threats, reduces the likelihood of Pierce and GRD to 1 decks of working on the clash.
  • A [Kamehameha] CAA user, for anti-revive tech
  • 2x [Defensive Stance] or [High Voltage] users with different damaging CAAs than the rest of the deck.
  • A [Friends in Fighting] user for anti-CI shenanigans.
  • FLEX OPTION. Avatar: Elite Kai (High HP, Freeze that will likely stun, and Dragon Fist), SH8-SEC2 King Vegeta, Berserk Goku, another Defensive Stance or High Voltage user w/CAA.

Defensive Mirror decks capitalize on there being so many Defense CAA Spam decks, and has a higher win rate on them, in exchange for having a lower winrate against Anti-Defense teams (which CAA Spam can sometimes survive). They use the same module choice as Defense CAA Spam except when Golden Cooler exists in play, they will use a [Shield -PWR] instead. Notably does NOT carry Cell X. Probably the deck most would think is a "proper way to play" since it regularly hits R4.

Decklist:

  • SH2-53 Trunks (Xeno) - The Tell that it's a Defense Mirror deck. He is a Defensive Stance user that has access to one of the more brutal ways of going first in a round: Power Level Limiter Unit.
  • SH1-CP6 Goku (Xeno) - Another Defensive Stance user that is also a part of Trunk's unit.
  • SH8-48 Gohan (Xeno) - The last piece of Trunk's unit, a Freeze user, and has full stamina on the likely clash round.
  • SH7-43 Marcarita - Prevents Revives completely despite ingame text, and usually shows up on the first turn so that [Angelic God Meteor] attempts to neuter the resting enemy backline.
  • SH6-62 Quitela - Allows the deck to have an edge up on the R3 clash round, and allows the deck to typically last through to R4 in a positive Stamina manner. If you feel that this isn't needed, you can swap with SH6-59 Iwne for a bit more safety.
  • UM1-SEC3 Fu - Takes advantage of the deck's Stall nature for a massive powerup, and Draw is 1k more eHP.
  • SH8-SEC Gogeta(Xeno) - Counter Rush user, and used for Peerless Fusion Warrior Unit S, which helps close the game out. Alternate Turn 1 start if the deck feels it can get away with it.

Anti-Defense is... exactly what it says on the tin: a deck to attempt to kill Defense decks. Most notably has an R1 mode that attempts to deal significant damage to decks lacking in Cell X, but it otherwise behaves as a kinda weaker version of the current R2 Rush deck otherwise. The deck also does not like to carry Berserk or MUI Goku as their buffs are easily cancelled. Ironically the hardest deck to pilot on the list, as a wrong move is immediately fatal. This deck wants to clash on R2 if at all possible, and wants to go first (via power limit module or by simply out leveling).

Decklist:

  • SH2-SEC Cell (Xeno) - Anti R1 again, useful for the mirror. Notably doesn't transform.
  • UM2-SEC2 Golden Cooler - is used for the GRD to 1 Lock-on, which is the earliest in the round that can be used, and pretty much exists for hard-countering the Xeno Vegito Kaioken Summon.
  • SH6-SEC2 Grand Priest - 30k Power Boost, in an attempt to overthrow the other deck's reductions. You have to be careful, though. If King Vegeta is being commonly used, sub for a [Friends in Fighting] user.
  • SH6-42 Kale - The game's biggest Pierce. She is the reason why you have a chance against either Defensive deck.
  • SH5-52 Demon God Shroom - The deck's other "good" Pierce. Has a God Meteor to boot.
  • SH3-SEC Dark Demon God Buu - The deck's consistent R1 mode enabler, and a good surprise source of Hero Energy. Lock on is used to attempt to disable a Freeze, Counter, or Kamehameha user. Wants to be out at all times if possible, must guess when the enemy is going all-out.
  • UM2-034 Vegeta - Mainly here for the power level increase, might save the odd round with Counter Rush. If you feel that you don't need all the PWR LV, sub SH4-SEC2 Dark-Masked King in for the SA spam.

Posted Apr 18, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC · edited

206
DoctorDown•

Thank you for this guide! SUPER comprehensive!!

2
ElectricSheep1988•

Would you mind giving me an example of the first deck? I'm having trouble finding units with [Friends in Fighting] and [Defensive Stance] or [High Voltage] although I've found some, not all that many (I do have most cards) This is what I could come up with: http://prntscr.com/ne7jnj Would Putine not work instead of Friends in Fighting or just not good enough? How would you generally go about rounds after R1 character distributionwise with this deck

1
masterageOP•

Putine doesn't work as the CAA spam requires an all-in. It would make R1 and R2 easier but make R3 susceptible to cards like Mai (and even though the deck doesn't need to win most CIs, no reason to lose them all either).

So long as the deck has all different damaging CAAs, the deck will work. Avatar Kai (and elite kai in particular, though Hero kai isn't bad and berserker kai allows you to sometimes go first) is the absolute best option when built for the Flex spot... when allowed. Other options include Grand Priest, Fu, and pretty much any other super-heavy hitter that isn't MUI Goku (who is rendered useless) or Giant supports (who don't play nice with Cell X).

Though I don't see the Kamehameha user in your deck, which is important for anti-revive and insurance. You can also just use Marcarita for the same purpose, but then her God Meteor's effect will be half-wasted.

And that summon is where all the power lies and is the entire reason the meta is this way.

Typically against a standard deck:

  • R1 Cell Xeno
  • R2 Vegito Module + Cell X
  • R3 All-in

However things get dicey when up against a mirror. If the opponent summoned Vegito and you summoned Vegito, you will go to R3, but if the decks go all-in, they will just bounce off each other and go who-knows-where R4. So will the opponent has an option to just put out the defensive stances out, but this is where it gets complicated.

R3:

  • If the opponent just Defensive Stances and you all-in, you lose next round.
  • If the opponent just defensive stances and you throw out the flex option (and skip CAAs), you win next round.
  • if the opponent reads you will just throw out the flex option and all-ins instead, you lose. Goes in both directions, though.
  • if both players just stance, the game goes to a dicey R4.
  • if the opponent just throws one stance out, and they have three total, you must all-in on the turn they only have one out.
  • if neither player stances, you trade normally and all this happens again R4.

And against a Defense Mirror, you also have to watch where Fu buffs land, but more often than not they will aggressively stance with quitela R3 and all-in R4 from a far better position than you (if they don't outright Ultimate Unit).

If Vegito is not summoned by one player, things happen a turn earlier on R2, but the person with the summon is in the far better position and acts like they stance (without actually spending any, Vegito is that tanky). Usually the non-Vegito player will stance R2 because there is a risk of the Vegito player all-in on R2 which kills.

Seriously, get the module. The JP players rushed it day one and their tier lists still kinda reflect that, the "good" cards are the ones that can beat Dark Giant Slug and open that mission.

1
ElectricSheep1988•

Thanks dude, very helpful. I was trying to get the module but could not kill the last boss, I've only had time for a few tries though. I really appreciate the time you're taking to help out, I did put a Kamehameha user in but must have swapped it out by accident or somethimg.

1
AIRMAN193•

Of the three decks which would you recommend the most?

1
masterageOP•

I suspect the meta has changed again, tbh.

Dmg increases like Kingly Blow seem to work through Outstrategize, and I've seen one instance that should've not had grd cancel one-shot that Vegito.

Since Imprisonable Hope seems to work only when it wants to (I suspect that xeno trunks to have been a hard counter to grand priest but pierce and that it doesn't seem to want to work ruins it), I've been having a hard time with defense decks overall.

1