Source
r/learndota2•
rootnegative

Waga beat OpenAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-_NF7uTcbA

Thought it was interesting from a learning point of view. Their approach was almost old school Chinese. All about farm and incremental advantage.

Its clear openAI still has some pretty major flaws, but even in the final fights the AI fought really well. Even though I would guess there was a major networth difference, the fights were closer than it would have been had two human teams been playing in the same circumstances.

Posted Apr 21, 2019, 7:54 AM UTC

667
ZCC_TTC_IAUSNeed to grind•

I don't think it's much about the approach (as basically nobody you'll even meet is OpenAI), but more about identifying the strengths of the opponents.

There were games with the AI picking off Waga and instantly bringing the game to a end (punishing so hard that any lead was over, that most moves were simply impossible and they had to fight in their base, which the AI would basically autowin).

It bring to light how much reactions are important: See in one of the lost game, 2B on Sven started a pick off with God Strength and Waga backing him up (both from invisibility. but having more than 3 seconds to kill the target, the TPs were over and they got rolled over by the AI team. Maybe you lose a core, but identifying that you can kill back is important too.

But identifying that kind of strengths show you anyway how you can adapt. And adapting to them mean you can overcome them, the Winstrike team basically cheesed them in a game with Shadow Blades, but applied mostly the same ideas of dodging fights, gathering the biggest lead conceivable and winning through that. I point at that stack too as more data is more precise.

Final note tho: The AI in it's purest Dota isn't flawed. Not really, it's the human approach versus the AI approach: an AI can't ever guess and extrapolate the data from so little as a single game. It's the reason the AI had 45,000 years of Dota. Or as someone put it: an AI do small steps to immedite ends, a human can aim for bigger steps for far away ends.

5
Shanochi•

I really have to question all these OpenAI's mechanics after watching OG vs OpenAI. It is even possible for a HUMAN being to do that at all? Like what if they picked Meepo? 4x instant proof without any delay? Or maybe even Invoker with insane reactions through meteor/CS/Ice wall combos/etc.

Even some case like fog blink Lion's Hex or Rhasta's Hex into Ward. Sure, OpenAI is a bot. They learn and add data to their system but It's still feel like fighting against someone with a shet load of G-mod scripts.

Also, WP on Waga. Gotta show these bots who's the boss.

2
FerynaCZ•

Open AI is supposed to have 200 ms "reaction" delay, but they still can instahex you after the 200 ms, not having to point mouse over you.

I think the micro stuff would be somewhat balanced if they added like 100 ms delay to switching units - this would make then slower in fights, but could still do crazy shit like multi stacking etc

4
saltydontbe•

They don’t micro anything there’s a restricted hero pool. I swear every thread about openAI people don’t understand the rules.

-3
Tobix551k4lyf•

They are talking about what if ai picked meepo, not about the current ai

6
leshracnroll•

Sorry if out of topic, but how can I play with OpenAI? Do I have to be a pro to have an access? Sorry for the noob question :(

1
Hawx74•

There was a sign-up last weekend to play against the AI on OpenAI's servers. I believe it is (currently) over, so no more OpenAI game. I'd guess they'll open up to more sign ups some time in the future.

1