Source
r/TwoXChromosomes•
AnnaRKey

Television advertising and stereotypes

I wanted to have a chat about this topic, where we stop focusing just on how they objectify, and belittle women, but also how they make men look like simple assholes who don't care about their relationships.

Recently, it's been the PS3 commercials. There's several other advertisements that might make more fun of one sex, but in the end, they're all based on stereotypes.

I think this is because it's suppose to be humorous. While I agree it's wrong to depict women as whiny and upset because her boyfriend isn't paying attention to her, the fact of the matter is that the commercial is also saying her boyfriend is too big of a dick to give her any attention, because he'd rather play a video game. This is enough to make both sexes angry.

So I'm curious why there's always so much more focus on how women are being objectified and made to look silly, and why we seldom make comments about how men are portrayed in these ads. Do we really feel that these are accurate depictions of men? Or are we just too caught up in the female problems to see the bigger picture?

I know feminism is a focus on women, and female-related topics, I think keeping things in perspective is helpful, and I'm really curious why often, no other sides are taken into account when discussing topics, especially TV advertising.

Posted Mar 30, 2010, 12:37 AM UTC

721
Qeraeth•

So I'm curious why there's always so much more focus on how women are being objectified and made to look silly, and why we seldom make comments about how men are portrayed in these ads. Do we really feel that these are accurate depictions of men? Or are we just too caught up in the female problems to see the bigger picture?

Honestly it seems like we do talk about this often.

A lot of feminists talk about the dualism of how men and women are portrayed in the media and that one set of stereotypes necessarily feeds the other because gender roles tend to be polarising (women are weak, men must therefore be strong, etc etc) and a lot of attention has been paid to the way men are advertised to as well. For a rather comedic take on the matter I highly recommend Sarah Haskins' Target: Women episode on the "doofy husband" trope.

Part of this trope, however, is something that inexorably works its way back to misogyny. If men are supposedly so incompetent that they can't operate a blender or change a diaper... guess who has to be the expert? :P Generally, stereotypes about women blow back onto men, and vice versa. They're necessarily connected and stem from similar social ideas about the roles of men and women.

The difference today- as opposed to 40 years ago- is that this is being balanced with the drive to portray women "positively", so now the domestic goddess also has a job and an SUV. But this is simply metamorphosing into all sorts of silliness that is sexist against men and women, which both sexes tend to see as unrealistic in either case.

The media messages aimed at men have always been of significant concern to many feminists who do media criticism; at least the ones I know and read, or whose lectures I've heard, and I can certainly speak for myself in this regard. Objectifying imagery of men portrays a masculine ideal that has, without question, played a role in rising rates of male anorexia, perpetuates bullying in schools against young boys, and promotes violence as the inherently "male" solution to problems.

I don't need to illustrate how that's problematic for women as well.

So, the criticisms are out there for sure. They're two sides of the same coin, misogynist and misandrist media portrayals. One necessarily reinforces the other. They have to.

Edit: Clarified a few sentences. :)

10
AnnaRKeyOP•

Thanks for gracing my topic with your awesome insight.

Also, thanks for the link. I love her "target women" series.

3
stupidinternet•

Part of this trope, however, is something that inexorably works its way back to misogyny.

I agree with most of your post but I think the above is pretty whack. Why is it misogynistic to portray women as more competent or capable than men?

1
hellotheremustard•

Because they're usually only portrayed as more capable of housework/childrearing/etc.

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[deleted]•

But then how can you win? If you portray them as doing housework, it's misogyny, but if you portray them as being competent at anything else, it's also misogyny? Am I missing something here?

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psychminor01•

There's a difference in being portrayed as competent in something vs. being better at it than a man because it's a woman.

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temp9876•

The issue is that advertising walks a very fine line, they use stereotypes because they are things that people recognize. In the same way that a child's flash card will have the word 'apple' and a picture, it cannot represent all apples, only the idea of 'apple' in recognizable form. So it is with advertising, they have to portray ideas in an easy to recognize form. The problem is that this often means reinforcing negative stereotypes about not only men and women, but races, religions, professions and products etc. The effect this has on women gets a lot of attention because there are a lot of women who have paid attention, and drawn attention to it. While those same women can attempt to draw attention to the issues facing men, it is somewhat difficult. Logically, if there was a significant issue, wouldn't there be a lot of men complaining about it? And when they don't, it makes it seem silly to hear women doing it for them.

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AnnaRKeyOP•

I don't think it's a matter of complaining about something for someone else. Often I discuss a lot of the things that are brought up in this subreddit with my SO. He gives me the male perspective of such things. For every commercial portraying a heterosexual couple, there's a female stereotype and a male stereotype. Both are often being portrayed in silly ways.

When you look at the big picture, it makes each side not seem so bad, because the commercial is not attacking women, or men, it's attacking stereotypes, and trying to be comical, not offensive. It's not a woman's right's issue, or a men's right's issue, or a gay right's issue.. It's ultimately an issue with advertising. Some people simply see ads as being silly nonsense trying to make you buy something by putting on a show of theatrics, while others can take it offensively.

6
lunachick•

In the same way that a child's flash card will have the word 'apple' and a picture, it cannot represent all apples, only the idea of 'apple' in recognizable form.

Well said. I love your entire comment.

Yes, you can't possibly represent everyone and everything and please the entire universe with a 30 second commercial. Many ad firms parody common social situations because it's funny, attention getting, and often what the average person can relate to. Stereotypes generally exist because there is some kind of truth or history that rings a bell with people, positive or negative. Commonalities evoke emotion. Consumerism is largely emotionally fueled.

Honestly, I consider it to be the age old question of Life Imitating Art or Art Imitating Life? Do these commercials actually shape who we are or just show who we are? No matter what I see on tv, I know who I am. Some of it I can relate too, some of it I can't. Some of it I see in other people and the commercials make me giggle.

The commercial in question is for God of War, I think. Girl buys guy new game. Guy plays game. Girl feels neglected. That happens all the time in real life. My friend "Jamie" is really bad about it. She buys her dude games because he loves them and then gets mad that he actually spends time playing them. It's hilarious to me. Now that that commercial is out, my guy and I always tell her, "Of course he's ignoring you. You don't have dragons! The game has dragons! Once he's killed the dragons, he'll return to you. Promise." Does it put men and women or relationships in a bad light? No, it puts them in a realistic light. People like that exist. It's funny. If someone sees that commercial and resents it because it mirrors their own life, they can change how they live, I guess.

Sometimes the commercials show all kinds of people in various unfavorable lights. It's called comedy. If we lived in a perfect, politically correct world, nothing would be funny. I would bet my life on that.

1
[deleted]•

I've seen it discussed in feminist circles a few times. Not nearly so often as potential woman-belittling, but it does get mentioned.

Just as an aside, I will chime in to mention that it gets discussed over in /Mensrights. It's not that surprising that feminism focuses more on potential woman-bashing and MR focuses more on the potential male-bashing in media.

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[deleted]•

As two sides to an ugly coin, I'm glad that both get discussed. I'm a little less happy with MRAs who degrade feminism to boost themselves up, and vice versa. I see it more in the MR subreddit than in the feminism one, but it can happen in both.

6
the_unfinished_I•

Doesn't humour play on a stereotype that the largest segment of the population can relate to?

Your example of the PS3 ad - I haven't seen it, but I think I'd probably laugh, because that's exactly the dynamic that crops up between me and my girlfriend! I'm sure it must be pretty common with other couples (I know it's an issue with my best buddy and his girlfriend too).

It seems tricky, because on the one hand we can say "This makes all women look like they're whiny and want nothing but attention from a man" ; or, we could say "This is a very common thing that's happening in a lot of relationships." Do we have to deny that it's a common reality for a lot of people because we're unhappy with some kind of extrapolated implications?

Something I'm wondering though, what kind of culture would we have if we had to 'depict' everyone in a way that everyone would be happy with. Wouldn't that just result in some kind of watered-down, vapid culture? Any piece of art (and yes, I'm using ads in that context) is just the creator's worldview - isn't it a bit arrogant to demand that their worldview fits with the way each group (races, genders, sexual orientations etc) wants to be depicted. Does any group even have a claim to be involved?

2
AnnaRKeyOP•

That's exactly it. This PS3 commercial series depicts women as stupid, or wanting attention, while their boyfriend completely ignores them, too absorbed in their video game. It's actually pretty sad if you think this is common, however, it is a scenario people joke about because I think you hear the stereotypical complaints "my girlfriend just won't let me play my game alone" or "Steve was up all night playing that stupid video game again".

This isn't a scenario that would crop up between me and my boyfriend. Even if I wasn't into playing video games, I simply wouldn't put up with a guy who can't keep reality in check and spends more time in a electronic game world, than doing other things. It's not really a relationship then, is it? However, that's taking this situation to the extreme. Men complain about women wanting attention, and women complain about not getting enough. That's a pretty stupid stereotype, but it's there for humour.

As to your questions, I've been mulling over my own questions, and I came to the conclusion that, yes, it's funny to depict everyone in this way. But couldn't they make the same commercial where they switch the boyfriend and the girlfriend around? That'd be more satirical, and more comical. I don't think ads need to suit everyone and make everyone happy, but if they did, I don't think it would result in a "watered-down, vapid culture." There's still funny and attractive ways to advertise products. . People could argue that stereotypes subliminally tell us how to act, and what are roles are in life. Either way, the point was that it's not a big deal any ways, they're just commercials

But I think it's simply how we take these things as a culture, and our ability to differentiate between humour and stereotypes, and our actual culture.

Edit: Clarifying a bit.

2
onlyhooman•

I'm oversimplifying to make a point, but stereotypes are an extreme. They illustrate a not-uncommon moment in a complex and unique lifetime. No one should take them personally (unless they are used as a personal attack), but we can all laugh when they pop up in our own lives.

The PS3 ads draw from a variety of common situations: whiny girlfriend who wants more face time, grandma hogging the tv, procrastinator boyfriend, vain sports celebrity, they even make fun of their slimy selves.

Ads don't need to suit everyone, they need to suit the people the product is targeted to. The PS3 is targeted to males who would identify with the situations above, find them funny and ultimately feel like Sony knows and understands them. As macho as they could be, I think PS3's agency is doing a good job of keeping the campaign fairly well rounded.

Case in point, I saw the whiny girlfriend ad last night and my husband and I laughed our asses off, talking about how much we love the campaign (we're both gamers, me more so than him). A little later, when he was playing a game, we were chatting and he started to lose track of the conversation. After asking him a question and getting no response, I yelled, "thanks for coming." (the line from the ad) and we both started laughing again. The situation fit into my life. I don't identify with the girlfriend, I think she's being whiny. And I don't see her representing me or all women. I see her as representing "something," a common situation. And one that even I, a girl, can identify with.

TL;DR: I'm a girl, I like the PS3 ads, I think they're speaking to gamers without being as chauvinistic as many other male-oriented ads.

2
AnnaRKeyOP•

Honestly, this is how I normally take commercials. I don't really see how they can be offensive until someone points it out. I think your post put it quite well. Thanks :)

Edit: I'd still think it would be hilarious to switch the guy and girl in this ad (had to fix that link)

1
chem_vixen•

I agree with the_unfinished_I in that it's easy to laugh at a commercial like that because that dynamic exists in relationships. I'm curious though, what if this scenario did crop up in your relationship? What do you think your reaction would be? Not based on the stereotype but if all of a sudden much of your time spent with your boyfriend is being lost to a video game, I think you'd want it back...aka wanting attention that you are used to. I don't really look at it as a stereotype, just a normal reaction when the norm is disturbed by some change. I think most women would react the same way.

Here's my example. So my bf plays WoW and he does so three days a week. So we have a schedule on the days he plays, I have my me time to do things I like/need to do. And then there are other days that we hang out. It just so happened that one of our hang out days turned into and extra video game day under the radar and, yes, my reaction was I guess what you'd call stereotypical. I was upset at the loss of a day I had previously been spending with him. So, from personal experience, I can see the humor, albeit exaggerated to an extreme, in the commercial. I say exaggerated because I said something to my bf and he wasn't upset about my feelings. Quite the opposite, he arranged it so it's back to three days a week raiding so I got my day back.

I guess it all just depends on perspective and personal experience in the situation.

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AnnaRKeyOP•

To be honest, I would probably be pretty annoyed with it too. I wouldn't be too happy being in a relationship where the time I spend with my boyfriend is dictated by a video game. I'd either join him, or accept that he's too busy to have a relationship. I can understand that that is a "him thing" and you have your "me time" during that, but I guess it's not my style. I prefer being spontaneous.

Oh, and I am a WoW player, and I have been a serious raider. I'll probably go back to it after the next expansion comes out. If my boyfriend and I couldn't play the game together (which we do) I wouldn't play it at all. But again, that's just me, and not you or other people.

But thanks for your perspective on things, it does help me see the bigger picture. :)

1
freshpickles•

I have to say that I do complain when my boyfriend plays video games for too long. I agree the commercial was silly but its kind of true. I hope I'm not as whiny as she is depicted but I do it too ^_^

(he's playing MW2 right now)

2
[deleted]•

Yeah, it's a relatable situation. The way it was executed (the suit guy's dialogue with the "aromatherapy candles") was pretty sexist though.

edit: I'm referring to the PS3 commercials.

2
freshpickles•

I agree it was a bit sexist but not too far removed from reality. Doesn't mean I agree with their marketing practices. Meh its a commercial.

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