On Chris Petersen, OKG, and Racism.

This is a really important topic for UW fans to be talking about. If you have been paying attention to UW news over the last week (and if you were REALLY paying attention for the last year) you will know that there are some problems with the UW program concerning it's perception on race issues. In this post I will be reviewing the events that have led to this point, why it is important, and question whether or not it is valid.

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Background: Last week, THE best player in the history of Washington state (Garfield and Kennedy HS) went out of his way to give an interview with Brandon Huffman of 247 sports saying that he is no longer seriously considering Washington. This news was quite shocking to most UW fans as UW have made him their number 1 priority in recruiting and despite his social media presence showing love to many different schools, UW seemed to get the most consistent praise and posts.

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Word came out quickly after that Oregon coaches and players as well as people in his camp have been telling him that the UW OKG model is racist and elitist, and he should go to a school that creates a better environment for black athletes who don't come from higher income backgrounds.

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Why is this important? There are many reasons to care about this, the first is that is a HORRIBLE reputation for any institution to have, and is especially damaging for one that relies on the recruitment of black athletes for their success. In a more immediate sense, Sav'ell is the best prospect ever to come out of Washington and it is not hyperbole to say he is likely THE single most important recruit in Washington's history (this obviously is looking from a recruit sense not a results sense, Steve Entman is the most important player recruited. You get the point). I can go into further explanation of why Savvy is so important in the comments if you want, but these are legitimately the stakes.

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Is this valid? Here is the real question. Most husky fans look at all this as preposterous. Chris Petersen racist?! The idea seems crazy. I think it will be helpful to break this down further into Perception and Intent.

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Perception: Why it's valid

  • UW has recruited a fewer number of black athletes than average, especially black athletes who come from lower income backgrounds
  • The culture of the team is very buttoned up and proper. There is no flash and very little fun shown to fans (even though most people say Petersen is an extremely fun guy)
  • Petersen and staff expect recruits to behave in a very specific way that often does not align with the upbringing of kids from low socio-economic backgrounds

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It would be easy to write off the obvious callous motivation that Oregon would have for spreading this perception (and christ, why wouldn't they try to keep him away from UW?), there are a few questions to be asked, namely, is there validity to what is being said? and, why haven't they taken the steps to prevent this perception?

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The Coaches Intent

If presented with someone saying that Chris Petersen is racist, I think almost any husky fan would respond with. "Fuck Off." The idea seems absurd! And at the end of the day, I do not believe he is racist. I also believe that he has build a program that provides institutional barriers for African-American athletes from low income backgrounds. By demanding that his recruits and players behave in a very specific way, he is subconsciously saying that if you don't understand and adhere to our culture you aren't good enough.

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Many will respond to my statement above by saying things like "If he doesn't match our standards than we don't want him!" or, "Not everyone is a culture fit!" Both of these have some truth to them, but I would counter with, "If Petersen's culture can't handle a few kids who are outside the norm but are genuinely good kids who want to work hard is his culture real at all?" The answer is we already KNOW what happens when kids who aren't his typical recruit are in his program, they flourish. The holdovers from the Sark years had incredible careers and development under Pete, look at Kevin King, Elijah Qualls, Keishawn Bierria, and many, many more. Kids notice this stuff. They see a program that can be great for them, but they aren't being let in despite having good enough talent because of their background. I don't blame Sav'ell for thinking that is bullshit, even if it's not the true intent. The perception has been enough.

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I hope UW football can take a step forward and start making an environment where everyone feels included. Pete is too good a coach and person to let bullshit like this bring him down, but I do hold him responsible for these problems. One of the reasons I have always loved Pete is because he doesn't just treat his players like meat to throw on the field to kill themselves for him and be used, he genuinely cares about their success. (I have always been a little uncomfortable with how many college teams use black athletes as a means to an end). Let's have a good dialogue, and move forward as a community who doesn't just rip on a kid for making a decision, blame Oregon for all our problems, and has conversations and recognizes these things like adults. We should make everyone understand how amazing Washington is, and why it will make a positive impact on their lives.

Posted May 7, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

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h4lyfe•

I'd love to hear an explanation about why you think Smalls is the most important recruit in UW history.

I think a ton of this based on speculation. Does anyone really know exactly how they determine "fit"? I think there is a wider range of what is considered an "OKG" than some might think. I think it's also an assumption that players like Bierra, King, etc that were recruited by Sark are not OKG as defined by Pete.

Is there data on the amount of low-income POC that are offered by UW? Otherwise I'm not sold on the idea we have a crazy difference in offering kids with that sort of background.

My feeling is this is not as a big of an issue as folks are making it out to be and is successful negative recruiting by Oregon. Especially given this is one player, hardly a trend.

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kbtoysisntdead:UW:•

UGH.... SO MUCH THIS!!!! I'm so fucking tired of this argument.

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King__RolloOP•

He is the highest rated player in Washington State history playing the second most important position behind QB. He is a perfect fit for our defense and is a great kid and teammate on and off the field. He is also coming up during a rare point in UW history that they are in a position to win a title, coupled with the fact that the 2020 and 2021 classes are the best in state history. Getting him on board shows the other regional recruits that UW is a place that you can play big time football and stay home and put out for your friends and family. He is also a HUGE Seattle guy, loves the city and the people here.

Those Sark guys definitely are OKG, but Pete would not have recruited them.

I don't have a numbers breakdown, but an easy way would be to look at the high schools that UW is taking guys and recruiting players from. Mostly wealthy, suburban schools. Obviously top private schools recruit talented players from all over so that skews things, but I think you would see a statistically significant difference if you compiled all the data.

This is a big issue. This isn't one data point, this is a horrible outcome that came from many data points. Things like not recruiting Tre'Shaun Harrison, Gee Scott, dropping Micah Pittman, etc.

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h4lyfe•

Did he not say in his interview he wants to experience something new away from Seattle? One player does not make a team, even at an important position. Would I want him? Ya, but I don't see this as a make or break deal for our title hopes. I also don't think one player changes the perception recruits have of UW.

I don't think you or I know if Pete would have recruited them or not.

I see what you're saying but again I'd want to see an analysis.

And those are related to racism? I think there is no proof that's the case at all. I think we have rumors about one player hearing that and making a decision based on that, when he himself said he wanted a new experience outside of Seattle, and now folks are extrapolating with out even close to full information.

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dweb98789•

You do realize that the reason that “good” high schools have good football teams is not because they’re from high socioeconomic areas, it’s because they transfer and recruit the best athletes and players. That’s common sense when it comes to high school football.

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ResetThePlayClock•

I'm going to need some data here. To suggest an entire program is racist then have zero actual facts to back up the claim is not only stupid, it's irresponsible.

People asked you for data. It's incumbent upon you to provide it or take this post down imo.

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King__RolloOP•

Here are facts: an extremely important player chose not only not to come to UW because of this perception, but chose to announce the end of his interest months in advance.

I will try to put together some kind of statistical analysis when I have time, but if you can't see this stuff happening I don't think you are paying close enough attention.

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ResetThePlayClock•

Here are facts: an extremely important player chose not only not to come to UW because of this perception, but chose to announce the end of his interest months in advance.

This is conjecture until you post a source.

if you can't see this stuff happening I don't think you are paying close enough attention.

This statement is valueless. It is what someone without a strong argument says to make their argument seem strong. You realize that this is exactly what flat earthers do right? "I can't help you if you can't open your eyes and realize the world is flat."

Given the serious nature of your post, it requires enormous scrutiny. You should have extremely strong evidence before you level this type of charge at ANYONE.

Literally enumerate your claims and post sources for each one. Otherwise your post has zero value.

Edit: Sorry, saying "zero value" is wrong here. Without sources your post actually does more harm than good. It has negative value. It potentially calls people racist without strong evidence, and it waters down the term "racist".

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King__RolloOP•

These rumors have come from a lot of different sources on different message boards. I can't give you an official statement because no on in their right mind who is involved would put this on the record.

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Let me ask you this, do you think Ale Kaho left UW because he was homesick?

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Here are some quick numbers that I found. According to my count (which could be slightly inaccurate) UW has 27 African-American players on scholarship. I am including anyone who is even partially African-American. That is out of 85 scholarship players, so roughly 32%. According to the NCAA database, 46% of P5 football players are African-American, and a slightly lower 43% in the Pac-12 conference. Of those 27 players, two had parents who played in the NFL, and 9 went to private school (which again doesn't necessarily mean they were wealthy, but they were at the very least in school in a wealthy environment).

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So far this year, UW has offered 22 African-American players, significantly higher than any other race, but already 12 of them have eliminated UW. That is twice as many as have eliminated UW from other races, while only accounting for around 40% of total offers.

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Last season, 54% (52) of UWs scholarship offers went to African-American players. Only 5 commited, which is 9.6%. That is an abysmal success rate.

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sighs__unzips•

Let me ask you this, do you think Ale Kaho left UW because he was homesick?

Well, it's not because Petersen is racist. I did a quick search and there is a whole slew of articles about it. Then I found this quote from Saban:

“He’s got some issues that he’s dealing with,” Saban said. “We’re trying to be supportive of him every way that we can. I think that we’ll just continue to try to help him every way that we can. I don’t know if there will be some point in time whether he’ll be ready to come back and play football or not.”

So yea, it looks like there are some issues at play, unless you think Saban is racist as well. This whole post appears to be a trainwreck.

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sighs__unzips•

Well Petersen offered Smalls, didn't he? If he didn't want Smalls, would he have offered him? Also, many players are recruited by position or assistant coaches who know that particular position well. Are those assistant coaches in question too?

Also what do you mean by "behave in a very specific way"? Like no drugs or bad behavior? Two of our previous head coaches, Willingham and Romar were known for running very clean programs, especially Romar. So is someone like Romar being accused of this as well, like not recruiting specific players? With the exception of one player, Romar's players were all squeaky clean.

And actually thinking back, Washington players have always been held to a certain standard, the ones who run afoul of the rules have always been dismissed and this goes way before Petersen's time. And Petersen wouldn't have been hired had he been one to skirt rules or allow bad behavior for the sake of winning.

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King__RolloOP•

Petersen definitely wants Smalls, the problem is he didn't create an environment that Sav'ell felt comfortable with.

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I'm not the best person to explain black culture to you, but it is definitely NOT drugs and bad behavior.

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kbtoysisntdead:UW:•

Why the shit are we going to cater to one demographic. To call this racism is such a huge fucking stretch its dumb.

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King__RolloOP•

You don’t have to cater just to one demographic! You should cater to everyone! Petersen is capable of it! He has shown it with all of the Sark era players who were extremely successful here, but he chooses not to recruit those types of players anymore, and when he does (Sav’ell), we have gone so far from creating a welcoming environment that he doesn’t want to come here anymore.

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kbtoysisntdead:UW:•

I literally don't understand what you're complaining about other thant Sav'ell doesn't want to go to the Udub, who cares. Have you seen our recruiting class? One guy doesn't make a team, and shocker, Its Petersen's team, don't you think he's going to try and create an environment that HE wants his players to like and live with? I can't even understand what your argument is anymore. Fuck Oregon and what they say, why are you buying into this bullshit hype so much.

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sighs__unzips•

If it's not drugs or bad behavior, who cares what people do in their spare time.

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King__RolloOP•

EXACTLY!

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seattleslow•

You don't change your environment for one student athlete, PERIOD. That is foolish.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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webconnoisseur•

Rollo seems to have trouble counting. I see far more than 27 here: https://gohuskies.com/roster.aspx?roster=176&path=football Where can we get reliable data?

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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King__RolloOP•

Here are some quick numbers that I found. According to my count (which could be slightly inaccurate) UW has 27 African-American players on scholarship. I am including anyone who is even partially African-American. That is out of 85 scholarship players, so roughly 32%. According to the NCAA database, 46% of P5 football players are African-American, and a slightly lower 43% in the Pac-12 conference. Of those 27 players, two had parents who played in the NFL, and 9 went to private school (which again doesn't necessarily mean they were wealthy, but they were at the very least in school in a wealthy environment).

So far this year, UW has offered 22 African-American players, significantly higher than any other race, but already 12 of them have eliminated UW. That is twice as many as have eliminated UW from other races, while only accounting for around 40% of total offers.

Last season, 54% (52) of UWs scholarship offers went to African-American players. Only 5 commited, which is 9.6%. That is an abysmal success rate.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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williehoward•

I don't know where your information comes from, but I have a hard time accepting your concern. I say this because:

  • I looked outside and the sky was not falling.
  • People with standards tend to be successful, and Peterson has standards.
  • The MOST important recruits I recall were Napoleon Kauffman and Paul Arnold - although Steve Emtman proved to be the most important player recruited by UW.
  • One player does not make a team.
  • If the kid wants to play somewhere else - that's his choice, wish him well!
  • My opinion is always that linemen are the most important positions to recruit to each and every year.
  • What coaches do to develop talent is as important as having talent.
  • The more discussion promoted by UW fans to this topic lends credibility, and gives the topic momentum.

I have a ton of confidence in Coach Peterson. Go Dawgs!

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King__RolloOP•

The sky isn't falling, it's college football, it's silly, but it also means a lot to a lot of people. I probably wouldn't have gone to college at all if it wasn't for watching UW football as a kid. The world will continue to turn, but this is a really damaging thing to happen to the program.

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One player does not make a team, but have Sav'ell would have changed the perception of UW and made it much more likely that they would be able to land other top recruits from this class and the next class like Johnny Wilson, Kelee Ringo, and Emeka Ebuka. I would say it's pretty unlikely we get any of them now. If the program is going to take it to the next level, it will need elite talent to go along with Petersen's elite development skills. We are not there yet.

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Discussing this topic means we get to set the narrative. Letting it fester in the dark will cause way more problems than engaging it and trying to move forward.

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quadsoffury•

This thread is a Trainwreck. Are you the same kid who posted that we would win a championship if smalls played here and we had to make him feel welcomed at the basketball games?

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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IRunLikeADuck•

I think our success in establishing a Hawaiian pipeline and the resulting demographic change necessitates a drop in other demographics.

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williehoward•

Rollo - care to comment on yesterday's verbal?

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King__RolloOP•

So stoked about it. Sav'ell is such a good kid and he is going to be an incredible player for UW. Probably the most important recruit in UW history. Really glad we were able to address the problems that Sav'ell had.

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Blutrumpeter•

Yes exactly hit it right on the nose. Some of my family gets discriminated against for how they talk to it's really easy to see "OKG" as vetting away low income families for acting different than you even if they're good people. Seen it happen with job processes so easy to tell someone that the same thing happens at UW

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King__RolloOP•

Also, shout out to the TSIO podcast and Lamichael Corleone for their insight on this.

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extramice•

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

This aggression will not stand man.

We have to be careful here. Admit that perceptions matter and do our best to make sure the perception and reality aligns.

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