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r/askaconservative•
Appathy

On the Socialist Rifle Association

Disclaimer: I am a fervent leftist.

I recently was spending time with some friends who had served in the military. We mostly avoid politics but I mentioned thinking of joining the Socialist Rifle Association. Both were incredulous about the existence of such an organization. As a leftist, keeping our weapons is incredibly important to me. I have no desire for the government to tell me and my fellow leftists that we can't have the tools we might need to fight government oppression, and I think most leftists feel the same. My question is, how do you conservatives feel about leftist gun rights organizations? Do you have any kind of qualms with/takes on them?

Posted May 27, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC · edited

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MantheHunter•

Some are hate-filled, antifa trash who would gladly use guns or anything they could to murder me if they had a chance to get away with it. Not you personally, OP; not everyone in that organization. But they exist, and it sickens me, regardless of their views on guns.

I also recognize that there are probably some decent pro-2A leftists who I could honestly respect. But to my knowledge, I can’t say that I’ve met any.

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clcameron10Conservative•

If a conservative believes gun rights are also important and doesn't want the government infringing on those rights, why would they have any issues with a leftist gun rights organization? Don't they both have a similar belief...? There would be nothing to argue or start something over.

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ultra-royalistC: Old Right•

Do you feel the same way about the National Socialist Rifle Association or the Scientology Rifle Association?

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clcameron10Conservative•

I honestly don't know much about either of those particular associations so I con't comment on them. I was just saying that if a leftist is part of an organization that has similar beliefs to a conservative one regarding gun rights, I don't see a reason to start a fight. Perhaps there are other aspects to those groups that would be more of a reason to disagree or start something, but in general - why start a fight with someone about a similar belief just because they vote politically different?

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ultra-royalistC: Old Right•

Perhaps there are other aspects to those groups that would be more of a reason to disagree or start something, but in general - why start a fight with someone about a similar belief just because they vote politically different?

Because you are already in a fight with them, over the future direction of your nation.

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clcameron10Conservative•

Right but why start a fight about it out of the blue? People don't just go up to others and pick fights when they know they know they have different political views. If I met someone who just randomly told me they lean more to the liberal side yet expressed an opinion that was similar to me (despite the fact that the majority of our views are most likely opposite) I would much rather just have a friendly conversation about our similarities rather then choose to ignore that and instead pick a fight because they think this, this, and this that I don't agree with. There might be a different situation where an argument is more fit but typically it's disrespectful to just pick fights with people randomly.

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nja1998•

I dont think anything of it ? Good ? All political ideology should value the second amendment the second admendment is the only admendment the truly guarantees the rest of them.

I dont agree with socialism though.

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CunningAllusionment•

Why don't you agree with socialism?

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Hobadee•

Keep your guns, but know that if you try to enact Socialism, I will be there with my guns to stop you.

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Liberal_On_Guns•

I do not encourage you to join the SRA. But, then again, I wouldn't encourage you to be a Socialist, so do what you want. I will just submit that they are ill-informed, and that private gun ownership is not compatible with socialism.

My problem with leftist gun rights organizations is simply that they're leftist first, guns second. The NRA has always been a civil rights organization first, and leftists are more than welcome in the NRA. The NRA is disproportionately made up of right-wingers, but that's not by design.

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Genericusernamexe•

Well they are useful politically, but I suspect many of the more authoritarian left wing gun groups only want gun rights until they get their government in power

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KingJonStarkgeryan1•

That's how it always is with them.

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NUCLEAR_DETONATIONS3•

Just don't use those guns for putting socialism in power. Otherwise, would live to bond over the sweet kick of the .30-06

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AppathyOP•

I mean, that's quite literally why the organization exists, and why leftists don't want anyone to take their guns. But I"m certain you could bond with them. We both have different aims but the same enthusiasms.

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RagnarDanneskjold84•

Now that you put it that way I am against you owning guns.

Nobody has a right to enslave their fellow man. You want the right to own guns, not because you believe in individual rights (you don’t) but rather as a means to an end. The end is socialism, which you intend to implement on society and others by force.

Yeah, you don’t have a right to do that. I would be ok with the government investigating your group, designating them as a terrorist organization and if needed jailing some of their leaders.

That’s really the difference between leftist and conservative gun groups. Conservatives want guns to protect and secure rights, you mongrels want them to violate the rights of everyone else.

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AppathyOP•

The end is communism, socialism is just a bridge. There will be no revolution unless the proles support it, so there's no reason to worry. If you and your peers continue to oppose communism, it will never happen, because it requires the consent of the people. Rest well knowing that.

Socialists start these organizations because they don't want to lose their guns in case they need them. I think the NRA and the SRA would agree on most issues.

Calling me a mongrel is not really conducive to a productive discussion but I'll ignore that. If name-calling is what politics has become then perhaps leftists have no chance. We just want to empower average, hard-working people who, we believe, are being exploited. You and I most likely just disagree on the method.

The fact that you don't want me to have a gun because of my political views feels like exactly why the 2nd amendment exists, to be honest.

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KingJonStarkgeryan1•

You want to enslave us via socialism and communism. You are the tyrant the founders warned us against.

As soon as you take power, you will undoubtedly take away all the guns not controlled by the party. To that I just have one thing to say....

Molon Labe

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RagnarDanneskjold84•

You intend to use guns to violate the rights of others. You do not have a right to do that and the state (and others) are perfectly justified in intervening.

You don’t believe in rights, so I don’t really care that you object others are coming for yours. Besides, you have no such right. There’s no such thing as a right to force others into slavery (ie socialism/communism).

You openly admitted your goal with the guns is to implement socialism/communism. History shows that’s a deadly threat. As far as I’m concerned you should be treated as a domestic terrorist and the government could, if it wanted to, investigate you based on these comments alone.

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Hubb1e•

When I see this I think of the black people during the civil rights battle who would patrol their own neighborhoods because the police would target them. Everyone should have the right to protect themselves. You never know who will be the next target.

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ultra-royalistC: Old Right•

Maybe that is what they should have always been doing, instead of trying to integrate and live off of a system created by another group.

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KingJonStarkgeryan1•

You have the right to join that group and keep and bear arms, but I am going to keep my eye on you because I trust a leftist with a gun as much as a trust gas station sushi.

My family had our land stolen in Mexico by racist socialists because we were too rich, too Spanish, and in the case of my mother's family too Basque for them. So yeah, I don't trust a leftist with a gun. But seeing as I live in the freest and greatest country on Earth and I can own as many firearms and ammo as I can afford, I feel like I'm prepared if y'all try and pull a Bolshevik revolution on the rest of us.

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RagnarDanneskjold84•

I am in favor of you exercising your rights, even if you don’t understand their nature or source and even if you actively work to destroy them and your freedom by being a leftist.

Leftism and political and individual freedom are incompatible. Your politics don’t leave any room for individual freedom, it’s all a matter of arbitrary state sanction.

Simply put, if the majority of your country or the country’s leader decided you no longer had the right to own guns you would have absolutely zero moral or intellectual arguments to resist disarmament.

Leftist political theories are not grounded on concepts like individual rights or limited government. On the contrary, they are based on ideas like political collectivism and government controls. I am glad you like guns and to some extent understand their importance, but you got a ton of work to do with your ideology.

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AppathyOP•

Simply put, if the majority of your country or the country’s leader decided you no longer had the right to own guns you would have absolutely zero moral or intellectual arguments to resist disarmament.

I will quote Marx.

Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

Leftists do not obey or respect the State. I don't understand why you feel I don't understand their importance?

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KingJonStarkgeryan1•

But you determine who are the workers. Look at the USSR, they determined the most successful farmers were Kulaks and enemies of the workers. Then they threw them into gulags.

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RagnarDanneskjold84•

Even the example you quoted confirms what I said.

Marx didn’t believe individuals have a right to keep and bear arms, he wanted the workers to have arms. Certain groups, not individuals.

And you can say what you want about leftists view of the state but the truth is that in every instance you guys support a bigger, more intrusive, more controlling and absolute government over the life of the individual.

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CapitalGGeek•

Any gun rights organization is a good thing. People that take responsibility for their own safety are likely to shift to a more independent view on other issues.

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Justole1•

Hey, perhaps you are not so different. We also like to keep our guns in case if the government grows too big. Too many instances of given up right to guns have cased horrific times.

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ultra-royalistC: Old Right•

If we keep the insane from having guns, I think we should keep them out of the hands of those who follow insane ideologies as well.

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YouCantBeSadWithADog•

So only the people who follow your set of beliefs deserve the rights granted to them by the constitution?

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ultra-royalistC: Old Right•

No, only the sane.

Also, the insane are receiving their Constitutional rights, namely a hearing in a tribunal and decision by their peers.

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ISimplyDoNotExist•

Join whatever organizations that you want, but I would encourage you to join the NRA as well. If you are worried about 2nd Amendment rights, you should start there. It's really only been since the late 80s or 90s that the NRA has become so political, but they are our best organization for the protection of our 2nd Amendment rights.

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AppathyOP•

I get that. I just can't stand their political stances. I'd rather not support them financially or otherwise. Amendment rights are forever, but the things they support are right now.

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ISimplyDoNotExist•

They only support the 2nd Amendment. Clearly, most people that join the NRA are politically right.

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Tapochka•

Marx himself supported the private ownership of guns. If I remember correctly, he held the position that the people in positions of power oppose the general public's ability to defend themselves. It is the only philosophical position he held that was correct.

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AppathyOP•

What is the other kind of position he held, besides philosophical, that you think is incorrect?

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Tapochka•

From each according to his ability and to each according to his need is the biggest and most obviously flawed.

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AppathyOP•

I'm quite certain his main philosophical position was his defense of historical materialism as the proper interpretation of human progress.

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Tapochka•

I have no doubt about that. It just isn't as obviously flawed because understanding it requires more work and doesn't sound like it is promising free stuff to the simple minded, so it isn't as appealing.

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