Is this a joke? There are literally bike lanes on the waterfront for this exact reason. This is a mind boggling proposal. Some people really do hate change just because “it’s not what I grew up with, let’s make it illegal!”
Posted Aug 2, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC
You mean the ONLY place that it feels safe to ride?
Yeah, really. The supposed bike friendliest city in the US has half-assed infrastructure. Protected lanes to the east and west that aren't connected to anything of value, both of which take less than 15 seconds to traverse, beautiful bike lanes that nobody gets ticketed for parking in, and a "bicycle highway" to the south that can only be accessed by crossing the busiest area of the whole city.
The vote is apparently on August 7th at 7 PM in City Hall
Here's what Tiffany Fisher sent around a day or so ago which gives it some context:
ESCOOTERS – COUNCIL ASKED AND THE MAYOR (AND LIME) LISTENED
The Council voted unanimously for a resolution that sponsored asking the Mayor to renegotiate the terms of the contracts with both Lime and Ojo for the 6 month PILOT program. You can read the resolution HERE, but in summary it called for the Mayor to “either renegotiate the existing contract to include a comprehensive plan that ensures safety of Hoboken residents and visitors and includes fair compensation to the City of Hoboken for enforcement and education for the remainder of the trial period, or cancel the existing contracts”.
After the vote, we were advised that the Mayor agrees with the City Council and will hopefully have a revised contract that is more favorable to Hoboken on the agenda at the 8/7 Council meeting.
I met with a representative from Lime who concurred that they had been working with the administration for about 2 weeks on contract terms that would be geared toward improved safety. I don’t have the details but am confident the terms will be better. I have offered to the administration to provide further input / help on contract terms but they have not yet taken me up on this offer J.
The crux of my discussion on with Lime centered around the use of scooters on waterfront walkway. Although I buy into the idea that our residents who are here everyday can learn to ride more respectively through education and enforcement (and just repeated use), I am not convinced that we can make the same impact on those riding EScooters (irresponsibly) on the waterfront walkway who are more apt to be visitors. I asked that he provide us with more data around ridership in the different areas of Hoboken so we can better understand how best to tailor enforcement, education and safety plans.
That said, I am still asking my council colleagues to vote on 2nd reading in favor of banning them on the Waterfront Walkway at the meeting on 8/7.
Have taken approximately 10 rides using Lime, and generally believe they’re helpful and have a place. However, every ride I take obeying traffic laws, I pass 3+ dickheads riding the wrong direction, 2 people to a scooter or riding on the sidewalk. Have seen two people fall off when they panicked riding through a sop sign when a car approached them. The GPS units on Lime might not be able to track all of those infractions but for the good of the brand integrity it makes sense to start enforcing fines or bans for users who ride the wrong way down a one way street for example.
Why can’t cops just issue citations? It would certainly pay for itself and set the message rules have to be followed. Also I see bikes going the wrong way down one ways all the time, yet people seem to think the only problem is scooters.
Its very difficult to actually catch/stop someone zipping by on a scooter as a cop unless you happen to be on a beat/walking patrol, or if you dedicate time and resources to set up checkpoints/locations for patrolling. I imagine the HPD feels that's beneath them (rightfully so) to police a bunch of scooters that some private company is profiting off of. They dont have the resources, funds, or amt of officers to do that effectively.
On the flip-side, the question regarding... "Why doesnt Lime ban more riders and enforce more strictly?" -- Lime has absolutely zero incentive to do anything above the bare minimum if the city is happy to allow it go on w/ no down-side or warnings, so long as theyre making their cut of the money. If you were Lime, and no one was applying pressure on you, why would you proactively ban paying customers if you didn't have to? Thats the problem with these scooter share companies. They make money w/ little repercussion on the majority of idiots who abuse the system and have no tie to the community at all.
HPD set up a task force to catch people not picking up dog poop (which was a good idea) so I think it would be tough to argue citing scooter riders is beneath them. A couple days a month have bike cops rewrite tickets. Yes people could ignore them and keep riding but I think a lot of people would just take the ticket and word would get out.
So she wants to ban the scooters and get the data after? The scooters have been out there for 3 months - if there was any bad data she'd be blasting it out there so I call BS. Our sellout 1st and councilman will by her side cheering her on.
I think she's saying that Lime hasn't provided any data, but she suspects they have it.
There are a handful of idiots who ruin it for everybody. Just today I saw two young guys doing burnouts on the gravel near the waterfront. Like wft. They need a better way to monitor these things.
I wouldn’t be be against limiting access to local residents. Most of the people who break the laws and non locals. That will fix these issues IMO.
I would say it's most likely locals riding irresponsibly. I'll take one from the path station at 6:15 on a Monday and see people I rode over on the train with flying by me through stop signs and lights. unfortunately we can't blame out of towners for the whole thing.
Seeing a cyclist stop is just as rare. I don't like that these scooters seem to be held to different standards.
If you blow through a red light or stop sign recklessly, both scooters and bikes should be ticketed, like the douchebro that nearly ran his Lime into mine yesterday, but if you slow down and confirm (or have enough visibility to be sure at speed) it's obviously safe, I still maintain it's just as acceptable to proceed like a bike.
I got an email from lime asking me to come to the meeting. I can't make it but if the room is packed maybe these idiots will back down.
I've never ridden one of the e-scooters but I am 100% on the side of not banning them from the waterfront simply because of a lot of what was mentioned below. It's mind-boggling to me that when someone complained about dog poop on Twitter, they had officers in parks giving dog owners citations for being on the grass so quickly, but anyone who breaks the rules for the scooters is often ignored. Same with those in cars who park in the bike lanes, double park, run through lights, etc. In fact, I was inches away from being on top of a car running through a red a few weeks ago and nothing happened. Before signing any pilot, we as a city should have expected this. People have been driving like crazy here for years / decades -- was the expectation that there wouldn't be bad eggs who would do the same with e-scooters?
I'm sure Director Sharp is a nice guy, but sometimes I see him tweet out or talk about what he envisions for Hoboken, claims that this is good for Hoboken (sometimes it is questionable but what do I know, I'm not an urban planner), and then once the enormous amounts of money are spent, the construction happens and the project is done, we are getting more problems than before. Then he back tracks, doesn't claim responsibility, or says "we'll look into your feedback" and nothing happens. And I'm not just saying this to complain about my personal experiences trying to communicate with him: Remember the crooked parking spots on Washington? A total mess. Maybe part of that is the Council's fault for not taking his advice when initial discussions are happening, but this is the pattern I notice.
True, there is a bike lane...but plenty of assholes don’t use it and instead, ride on the sidewalk.
Among the other issues are:
The E scooters are an interesting concept, but I am opposed because of the people riding them. Many of them have no consideration.
Also, I would hope Lime is being extremely taxed. Their scooters are junking up the place, so hopefully there’s a financial incentive to Hoboken for dealing with them.
I assume you also apply this logic to car drivers. With the number of drivers that run stop signs, double park on Washington St., etc., it's presumably clear to you that cars are an interesting concept but you are opposed because of the people driving them.
I agree that there the problems above exist but there has to be some sort of enforcement by police. Start giving out tickets to scooter drivers who blow through stop signs and are on the sidewalk etc.
Also just a bit of a rant comment: the amount of people who obliviously walk in the bike lane on the waterfront is infuriating. Like there's a whole section meant for people to walk, why do you need to get in my way as I try to bike around you?
I'm with you. As a cyclist it pisses me off
my "waterfront bike lane" favorite hits:
whole family walking side by side on bike lane
people turning from the food trucks and walking into it without looking
person on the phone walking down the middle of the bike lane, weaving
100% ignoring of bell rings
I have a Facebook album of "idiots on the waterfront bike path" from my GoPro.
The worst was a fucking baby crawling on the fucking path.
Also, fuck that food truck.
The most infuriating though was when the Bike Hoboken group hosted Lime and they set up their demos right in the middle of the bike path. I called them out on it on Instagram and they were like "Well, we're pro-transportation, not pro-bike. We don't even like the bike path there."
Who the fucks cares if you don't like it, don't have 7 people standing in the middle of it. Fuck.
As a pedestrian it pisses me off.
I actually emailed the mayor about this awhile back:
XXX,
Thank you for alerting me to this issue. I am copying Director Sharp from our Parking and Transportation Department. His department will address your concerns. Off hand, I would think that additional signage may help, and/or city officials doing routine checks to make sure the rules are being followed will also help remedy the problem.
In any case, we’ll circle back shortly with more concrete input on your concern.
Regards, Ravi
Hi XXX,
I raised this issue with our Director of Transportation. Here is a portion of the input I received:
‘This has been a challenge for years and largely stems from urban design issues with Sinatra Drive and the Hudson River Waterfront Walkway. First, there is no sidewalk on the east side of Sinatra, so the bikeway is the first paved surface you come into contact with as a pedestrian on the east side of the street. Secondly, the HRWW is the only dedicated space for pedestrians on the east side of Sinatra, but in order to access it you need to cross over the bikeway then go through the tree line to get there. If you're only walking for a couple blocks, it doesn't feel natural as a pedestrian to walk all the way over to the HRWW and then cross back over through the trees and bikeway again a few minutes later. As a result, the bikeway currently is more convenient and natural for many pedestrians to use than the HRWW.’
We are currently undergoing a redesign process of the walkway and will try to address this issue through enhanced signage, pavement markings and other design features to make the bikeway feel less convenient to walk for pedestrians and meant as a bike path only.
Thanks for your input. It’s valuable and I appreciate it. Please feel free to reach out to me anytime.
Best, Ravi
That was a reassuringly insightful response! Whenever I deal with government, civil services, etc. I’m always prepared for some half assed interactions so that was super refreshing.
In addition, my wife pointed out that, in her opinion, the bike line is actually nicer because it has trees on both sides where the river walk only has them on one.
Add a few signs and we’re golden. This mayor mayors.
So what would you do, oh constant critic?
As I do agree with you and this post, people also tend to ride their bike/scooter on the walkway and not in the bike lane which is just as annoying.
Oh yeah it happens both ways
I very rarely ride in the walkway, but any time that I do I'm keenly aware that I am 100% responsible for any collision that might happen with a pedestrian. I go slow, I don't hit anybody. And have never had an accident.
Pedestrians on the other hand seem to walk in the bike lane as if they literally have no idea where they are.
“Responsible for any collision-“ it is sociopathic to accept “responsibility” for potentially injuring someone in advance. You can’t un-kill someone, you can’t take away potential chronic health issues caused by your negligence. The ONLY way to take responsibility is to not fucking do it.
Okay chief.
Is this your bullshit excuse for being unable to follow simple safety rules? That you accept responsibility? Can I drive drunk as long as I am aware I’m responsible if I hit someone? Get off and walk the bike/scooter if you can’t get out of the walkway.
Sorry to break the news, but there is no rule against bicycling along the waterfront.
It is in fact an official bicycle route!
https://www.facebook.com/Hoboken/posts/1533678553319551:0
https://www.hobokennj.gov/resources/bicycling
I had a guy running in the bike lane fucking get belligerent when I wouldn't move out of his way. I circled around and got into an argument with him and he insisted that bicycles had to yield to pedestrians on the bike path. Fucking idiots in this city.
It doesn't help that the food trucks are right next to the bike lanes. So where do most of the people line up for the food trucks - yep in the bike lane. So annoying.... Though a good part of the blame goes to the city - they need continous bike lanes from downtown all the way uptown, not the current patchwork of bike lanes that causes confusion and is total crap.
Out of curiosity, have you had any issues with scooters in the bike lanes? This isn't some veiled comment, I'm wondering if there have been issues that could conceivably be behind any notion of keeping scooters off the waterfront.
I haven't no. The biggest issue I see with the scooters is people drive them like idiots sometimes. The number of times I've seen people going the wrong way down a one way street on a scooter is kinda scary. That being said we shouldn't be taking away scooters, we should be making sure the people who drive them like idiots get ticketed somehow.
Yeah I was just wondering if they were zipping the wrong way on the waterfront bike lanes or going up on the sidewalk (I think I've seen that on video or the 'bad scooter' twitter).
Hopefully the cops just keep cracking down hard on people - it's the only way it will change.
The bad scooter twitter likes to post a video of a kid on a scooter almost hit a pedestrian while ignoring the fact that the pedestrian was walking in the middle of the bike lane.
This is how I feel about cars in town.
Daily reminder cars kill more children.than any other cause of death and cars are responsible for more avoidable deaths than any other form of murder/manslaughter.
Oh man, you spoke to me with this comment. Get TF out of the bike lane!!!
Edit: in fairness the food trucks are right there on the weekends, which I guess explains part of it.