This is exactly why we need better gear signposting, or iLvl requirements on dungeons.
Posted Aug 11, 2019, 10:16 AM UTC
121217
I had a tank in the lvl 77 dungeon wearing lvl 50 helm, Shusui chest, lvl 68 gloves, I don't remember the pants but lvl 45 boots and the right side was all up to date. I was on Monk and had more HP than him.
Having some sort of a way to tell people to upgrade shit other than sounding like an ass would be helpful.
45
As a healer, I hate dealing with these tanks followed with "sorry, I didn't know you can't handle big pulls."
39
Ugh, don't get me started on the under-geared wall to wall tanks.. Had a whole slew of them yesterday, and they all refused to learn after three wipes that maybe they shouldn't do it. If a WHM can't keep you alive from your attempt, then nothing will.
I tend to ignore it and let them learn, or attempt to learn, on their own. Though the moment they try to blame me for it, that's the moment I'm gonna snap.
14
Every.Single.Wipe in a random roulette while on my healer is caused by an undergeared tank with the wall-to-wall pull mentality. Ugh, it's an unpleasant time from that point on.
6
As a fellow healer my usual reply has been, “I can when my tank is appropriately geared.” Usually the DPS picks up on that, and adjusts their cooldowns, but not always.
3
I can easily keep a good tank alive. Hell, I can even keep a tank alive. You're not a tank. You're a fken idiot in shitty gears.
3
Shitty tanks that pull the first three packs of mobs in Keeper of the Lake are gonna drive me to alcoholism. Goddammit.
1
"Hey friend, I saw that some of your gears are not to your level. Perhaps you forgot to equip them?". Works every time for me. If they act like an ass after that, they'd definitely get a guaranteed kick.
19
Our healer asked if he had any better gear and "Nope this is all I have."
1
other than sounding like an ass
Why is there this stupid idea that telling people to get the bare minimum gear is "sounding like an ass"? What, they're not the assholes for dragging down a group of randoms?
TBH if they don't have gear to put on inside, just fucking kick them. As a group we shouldn't tolerate jerks who think they don't need to get a bare minimum while getting carried. Emphasis on bare minimum: you don't need i400 on Malika's Well(it'll be hard and I'll hate you, but it's doable), but you definitely should not have a i350 item there.
8
Because there are people who will get hostile over being given advice. The "you don't pay my sub" meme is unfortunately a very real thing with people. As for kicking them, sure you can. But you can also risk being reported depending on what you say and why you kick them because of ToS.
1
He left under his own choice but I did ask "How he got this far with the gear he had." He refused to answer cause I knew Ghimlyt Dark had an ilvl minimum and he was past it some how.
1
I tried to gently let a SCH know that he was sort of under geared for the Ravel. I just said "hey man it's not a huge deal but your gear level is kinda low for your level". He proceeded to berate himself until we wiped again then left.
4
The tank left under his own choice after two deaths to trash pulls (not large ones either) and a Boss death, but I did ask "How he got this far with the gear he had." He refused to answer. I knew Ghimlyt Dark had an ilvl minimum and he was past it some how, I assume it was an alt but he should have had gear if it was an alt job.
2
Stop enabling these assholes. Tell them to get better gear and kick them from the party.
28
it should be 100% required that for a new expansion, your ilvl must meet whatever the highest ilvl was to get through the previous expansions story. for example, if your gear is too low for ghimlyt you shouldnt be allowed to do holmisnter, and its impossible to get into holminster without having done the msq first. every expac. i think thats a perfectly reasonable, and still fairly low, bar to set.
EXTRA REMINDER THE NEW CITIES IN ALMOST EVERY ZONE HAVE NQ VENDOR GEAR BETTER THAN THAT SORT OF NONSENSE. its hardly expensive.
min ilvl of 90 (keeper of the lake) for dusk vigil and beyond
min ilvl of 230 (baelsar's wall) for sirensong sea and beyond
min ilvl of 360 (the ghimlyt dark) for holminster switch and beyond
28
The base ilvl sold in crystarium is 385... And you can get gear and weapon AND accessories for not that much...
6
Well the NQ "385" junk has about the stats of a real 365, so it works out if the minimum ilevel were 360-ish.
Except for the weapon, which has a Weapon Damage stat equal to i300...
2
Honestly, it isn't hard to be geared for over half of the current content we have access to. Getting the Scaeven gear from Rhalgr's Reach, and then augmenting it, can last you well towards the Ravel. I've even been able to both tank & heal appropriately in it on the dungeon after it.. albeit the name slips my mind.
Simply put, it really isn't hard to gear for the early-mid portion of this expansion. Which really saddens me, that there are people who can't even do that.
3
I'm level 78 RDM, and I still have my Augmented Scaevan Ring equipped, and possibly one or two other Scaevan accessories.
I haven't found anything better than the ring yet, and I think I've been doing okay.
Extra stats certainly don't hurt, but when I'm noticeably helping with every pull and doing a decent job of burning the boss, it doesn't matter that I'm not in the BiS gear for that level.
2
I haven't found anything better than the ring yet
There are Sidequests that literally give you iLv403 / 409 / 415 HQ Accessories for free. Even just running anything from the Lv75 Dungeons onwards enough times will get you better Accessories guaranteed (by virtue of Leveling Dungeons always giving you one Piece for your Job you don't have yet straight into your Inventory/Armory just for clearing).
Granted, Accessories aren't as much of an issue, that much is true, but at Lv78, it's really not that hard to already have better stuff :P
1
Huh, I never realized the level 75+ dungeons gave guaranteed gear for completion.
I guess I haven't received a ring yet then, or if I have, it was better to a larger degree than the other ring I was using, as opposed to the Aug Scaevan Ring.
Also, I knew about the sidequest accessories, but I didn't do them because I wanted to save them for alt classes.
I figured I would be getting better stuff soon enough anyways, either from dungeons or from story quests, and it would be made obsolete in just a short while.
1
This will somehow become OP is a meanie elitist and the anyone who agrees with him is a jerk and should just let new or bad players play how they want.
17
I would die on that hill.
27
I will remember your noble sacrifice, you magnificent bastard
8
As a filthy casual, nah, I agree with OP. I may not run Savage content or min-max my gear, but I make sure I have appropriate gear for what I'm running. I want to enjoy this game, and I know others do as well, so I'm not going to put someone through that kind of ridiculousness, and I don't like being put through it either.
5
An elitist, no. I don't think so.
But I do think FFXIV players make a huge deal out of other players being bad. I think people forget that they're not entitled to perfect circumstances everytime they queue. That's just not how the world works. If you complain about it all the time, yeah, you're going to start sounding like an asshole.
In this case, the dungeon is clearly at the end. If they hadn't made a big deal out of this one literally meaningless thing, they'd probably have forgotten about it 5 minutes after zoning out.
It's just a bit of an overreaction. Like literally who cares, it's a levelling dungeon.
EDIT: Yeah, or you can downboat my post. God, you people are such literal children lmao.
-28
You're getting downvoted because you're defending a mentality that is significantly more toxic than the one you are railing against. A sociopathic expectation to be carried at the expense of 3 to 7 other people's time is so much worse than pointing out that someone is undergeared or playing incorrectly.
19
While I agree, I will point out that "Playing incorrectly" is something of a loaded term, because it implies there is a "Correct" way to play something that most people do as a passtime. Better would be "Optimal" or "Suboptimal" I think, though it doesn't roll off the tongue as easily and is still semi-loaded.
3
There is definitely a correct way to play: I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that playing like the person in OP's post, that is, being significantly undergeared and assuming that the rest of the team will pick up your slack, is playing incorrectly. This is a team game, and you not pulling your fair share puts more strain on the other players.
Going off of that,, the inverse, which is to say being properly geared and pulling your weight by learning fight mechanics and knowing your class's basic rotation, would be called playing correctly.
1
Ffxiv probably has the nicest community of any mmo out there and most groups will happily share advice if asked.
But there is a massive difference between perfect circumstances and a tank wearing level 30 gear in a 70+ dungeon. Or a tank refusing to turn on their stance.
Or a dps having dps that's only half that of your tank or healer.
Some people are agonizingly awful. Not just imperfect.
16
I got told my a tank I needed to 'Do More DPS' as a i440 WHM in the fae dungeon because the mobs were 'taking forever' to die. We wiped on the 2nd boss because the fight dragged on so long. It was apparently because I wasn't doing enough DPS.
Even though the SAM was auto attacking and occasionally spitting out one or two moves, it was apparently my fault for not spamming holy even more than I was on groups.
Because ????
1
LOL the xiv community is almost as toxic as wow's when it comes to max level content.
Dont even.
0
You are literally the problem.
"I Don't care what anyone says, it's my Right to be a nuisance and to waste other people's time. I should be allowed to afk or wear no gear because that's how I want to play!
Who cares if I waste half an hour for 3-7 people! It's what I want! Waaah! Oppression! WAAAAH!"
Please.
Stop humiliating yourself so much. I believe that you're not actually this stupid, you're probably just having a bad day.
9
We aren't the person crying over their downboats
4
I down voted for the edit
3
But I do think FFXIV players make a huge deal out of other players being bad.
It's exactly the fucking opposite. Most people are so bad at this game that I literally just stopped bothering. It's expected that you have to carry half you group whenever you queue up for something. If more people spoke up about people not pulling their weight, then we wouldn't have the problem.
2
What you're defending isn't just "players being bad", it's players who go into content with gear far below the dungeon's level and expect others to adjust to them. This can easily turn a maybe 10-15 dungeon into a 30+ minute one, if there's a clear at all. Is it being an asshole to expect others to have an appropriate ilvl range of gear but not being an asshole to be severely undergeared and expect others to carry your dead weight?
1
On the other hand: An ilvl requirement on leveling dungeons means the leveling roulette will get "abused" like alliance roulette, where people drop their ilvl on purpose to not get the slow raids. This is probably why Yoshi-P was unsure to implement a countermeassure for this in the last LL. Sure it sucks having to deal with this, but better than not getting a full party at all for it?
I am not saying it should remain as it is, there should be done something about it, but just not sure the ilvl thing would fix it or wouldn't cause problems of its own.
16
In leveling roulette if you drop your ilevel intentionally you are basically ruining the purpose of the roulette because you are going to guarantee that you never get any of the dungeons that give good exp. Sure you could guarantee that you are running Sastasha forever but you're getting a lot less exp than you are from Holminster.
15
I obviously don't have a good enough sample size, but the great majority of my leveling roulettes, even on 70-79 jobs, just put me in ARR dungeons either way, so I only do the roulette for the daily bonus.
2
Freaking copperbell mines. I've seen no other dungeon in leveling roulette in weeks, with one exception yesterday: Halatali.
3
Who the hell would prefer doing Sastasha over a 70+ dungeon? When I do the leveling roulette I pray to get a dungeon as close to my level as possible to get that sweet mob XP. SE is known for making up bullshit excuses, no need to parrot them.
According to the idiotic SE logic the solution to people cheesing Alliance roulettes is to remove ilvl restrictions, not give more XP for the 'tougher' ones. I don't think that makes any sense.
9
I'm not entirely sure about that, I find combat infinitely more engaging in the last 10 levels of the game. As for Alliance raids, as someone who does drop their ilvl to never get Orbonne, it's only because of how mechanically strict it is and requires a considerable amount of people to know what to do.
You can, apparently, carry a MCH through a 4-man reasonably but i still don't think it's acceptable.
2†
Orbonne is literally a joke.
I refuse to believe people who play this game are so shit they cannot do Orbonne or any of the Stormblood 24 mans once they are no longer current.
4†
If you make a boss in a 24 man where one member of a 24-man party can potentially wipe the entire raid, you're begging for trouble.
I can assure you at least 1/3 of the playerbase is "shit" at this game. So you're playing russian roulette every time a mechanic goes off during Thundergod.
3
Last time I did Orbonne, which I have about 15 clears on and which I know pretty darn well at this point, we abandoned at Thunder God after 75 minutes. It was a disaster. Is it because smarter players avoid it, therebye exacerbating the problem because those players are actually better on average? Is it because of all the newbies here for Shadowbringers who don't know the mechanics? Something else or some of each? Who knows, but I decided to exclude Orbonne after that because it's not worth it when there's a serious chance of losing over an hour with nothing to show for it, through no fault of my own.
SE, please just give us significantly more XP for the slower raids, and then I won't use the ilvl trick to avoid them.
2
People like OP twist it so that half the alliances are new and rest made up of those who don't bullshit ilevel. Makes it more chaotic and causes even more people to avoid it. Annoying
0
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0
easy solution: don't let people sign up for Roulettes while they have empty equipment slots.
2
Better yet, set the ilvl requirement for the roulette to the highest doable dungeon for your level instead of just the lowest 2
15
Mentor roulette has this (You can't que without wearing gear high enough for newest duty) so it really baffles me they haven't implemented it and general min ilvl to everything else Its really not asking much of people to stay updated on gear, I legit don't get their hesitation
9
quequeue
FTFY
3
¿Qué?
0†
My only concern with this is that it doesn't take into account that best in slot level 70 gear can be worn up until around level 75 before you start to see any gear upgrades. My ilvl didn't really change between the start of shadowbringers and Qintana Ravel, but I was more than geared for everything.
1
Can't they just equip lower ilvl gear from a vendor or something? Sounds like a non-solution to me
3
having to buy and equip weak stuff makes quite a difference.
0
No it doesn't, lmfao. It takes an extra 2 seconds to make a "low ilvl" gearset and swap to it. People will definitely do that if they have to.
1
Buy minimum ilvl to get in.
1
yeah but that's extra effort.
that will stop a lot of people from abusing the system.
1
Require a person to have ilvl equal to their highest unlocked instance in order to use a roulette. (Level-appropriate restrictions still apply)
Both problems solved. Hire me SE.
2
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1
See, if you actually had the ability to read. I'd say it'd be level-dependent. You know. Like the current roulette is.
Wow, sure would've saved you a lot of time if you actually had the ability to read, huh?
1
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1
This would be pretty insane given how bad time/xp is in the lower level dungeons, but in principle you're right that there are more concerns than just "throw a min ilvl on there". Maybe the ilvl check could be performed at some other point in the chain, not sure.
1
where people drop their ilvl on purpose to not get the slow raids
I wanted do WoD for Aether Oil quest, queued up 3 times, waited 20+min in queue. We either wiped on the eye boss or the multi headed dragon or both. All 3 ended up in disband. This is all I can say to it.
0
I don't know how, and I will ask next time I'm on, but my fc actually figured out how to create a party and do wod unsynced with 6 players. I know it's possible because we farmed it for the oil for a new player in our fc that was having the same issues getting in.
1
The ring isn't the only problem there I see.
12
Okay embarrassing story time, I was one of those people on my ninja a few weeks ago. Hadn't played it since HW and I decided to start leveling it, so I ran a few FATEs up to 61 then joined a party for the Sirensong Sea. I was getting one shot by unavoidable mechanics, the poor healer was having to rez me at least twice every boss and a couple more times on trash.
Looked at my gear and it was awful, I had a few very low ilevel 60 pieces and several sub-60 pieces. I must have leveled that class to 60 then completely stopped playing it in HW. The really stupid thing is that I save gear for all classes on a retainer, so I had plenty of good gear for my NIN, I had just neglected to check before hand.
It was extremely embarrassing for me, I never would have joined like that if I'd realized. This community is awesome so the party didn't kick me but I wouldn't have blamed them if they had. My DPS must have been non-existent.
A min ilevel for dungeons would have saved me a lot of embarrassment!
9
Acknowledging your muck-up is a huge step more than most players in your position would make. Kudos to you for keeping the blame to yourself, hope that party wasn't too honked at you. That said, Sirensong isn't a cakewalk for healers in general, at least for me. Maybe I'm just awful. It felt like a huge jump in incoming damage compared to other dungeon progression
2
I was votekicked from a party the other day as a healer because I couldn't keep the tank alive. He had a few100 hp more than the rest of us in a mid60 dungeon, even a sudden breeze took half of his HP, and of course he insisted on pulling 2-3 pack at a time. One of the few times I was actually glad that they spared me the headache.
7
As a new player to the game (lvl 58 but only lvl 52 in the MSQ) - I would definitely say that ilvl isn’t made important to players in any meaningful way while leveling which probably contributes to this.
The poetic vendors aren’t obvious and fairly confusing. I have 14 years of WoW experience so I’m not new to MMOs, but the vendors aren’t made clear to players in game or even the need for them at lower levels.
Yes, there is the Rowena quest, but it takes you to Rowena, not to the poetic vendors. Then once you find the vendors there are two types of currency and multiple menus to click through.
I browse this sub and the discord so I had heard enough about poetics and the upgrades at 50/60/70, but if you are new to these games and don’t seek help outside of the game I can 100% see how people wouldn’t even know the poetic gear existed while leveling.
Combine that with the Road to 70 buff where you outlevel content for most of the leveling experience and therefore don’t feel the difference gear could make until you are level synced - players aren’t incentivized to bother with the vendors.
It is a lot for a newer player to take in and adjust to. Luckily I have found the community to be incredibly welcoming/helpful and I had many people answer my questions about poetics etc. (like how OP took the time to show the players the vendors etc.) an ilvl requirement would encourage better transparency about ilvl and maybe streamlining the vendor process.
Looking forward to the finishing HW and on soon!
5
But they literally hand you gear coffers in the quests leading up to this dungeon, which far outlevel what this dude is wearing.
3
Ahhh gotcha. Didn’t know that 😢
1
Your ilvl view is interesting, and i could see someone new to the game being confused or thinking its some esoteric system.
Thaaat saiiid. there are vendors for NQ stuff in every major city (and in the case of HW onwards) every zone, and i have to assume even basic players can look at armour peices and think to them selves "This ring has 2 Dex, my other armour pieces have hundreds perhaps i should see about changing this.
2
The game literally forces you to have a certain ilvl for all the 50/60/70 dungeons and trials inbetween expansions. Why do people think it's ok to just go into the next one with half of that?
1
Ran into these types of people before, I've told them they should check their gear before running higher end dungeons, and I got reported.
3
Is it actually reportable for telling someone their gear isnt good enough? Thats retarded.
1
That's the impression I'm given here based off one response i got so far and the user you replied to. I guess if someone is angry enough by what you say, they can color their "disruption of gameplay" in a way that the GM is compelled to punish you for it.
1
It all depends on how you say it ofcourse, but generally no, that should not be reportable.
They probably tried to pass it off as a case of "dictating a playstyle" (yes, backseat gaming actually is a reportable offense)
1
Isn't playstyle differences a kick option though? Lmao
1
Not a selectable option, but an accepted reason.
1
Apparently. The stupid thing is, in the past I was toxic, had some warnings, so this ''warning'' resulted in a 10 day ban.
1
Had one healer that had subpar gear and kept dying to mechanics yesterday in the same dungeon, it was horrible, we need a ilv requirement. It is not fun at all to get those kind of people.
3
Why didnt you kick them for the entire dungeon?
2
Sometimes with DPS it’s hard to notice stuff like this other than “seems like we’re moving a bit slow.”
3
That run must've been real slow, the tank is beating the drg.
2
it was about 36? min total.
3
Sounds about right. Would've been faster with trusts.
2
It's not perfect, but I always glance at max hp when I load in to a dungeon and use my own as a benchmark.
1
Oh geez... This reminds me, yesterday I realized after finishing a Kugane Castle 50/60/70 roulette that I was missing two rings and a necklace on my SCH. I hadn't played or even swapped to SCH since ShB launched, and with my WHM at 80 and AST at 72, I guess I got overzealous and converted some of the regular 70 healer gear. Fortunately, aside from a couple spicy big pulls, nothing was TOO too bad, and lucid dreaming helped a lot, but man, I hope no one saw me missing gear. That's one of those things that you'd want to be brought to your attention if it were you.
2
ya know how the game pings a warning if your durability is low when you queue? it should ping you for empty XD
wait....actually doesnt it give a message when you swap gearsets if something that used to be in the set is missing?
4
Yes it tells you if pieces are missing, but there are SO many “error” messages if you change a single Materia/glam/dye that it’s easy to miss.
3
Exactly, my SCH gearset glams every left side piece when I hit the gear swap macro that I didn't see anything in the chat box, and I've been playing XIV since open beta 3 of ARR (With some breaks) so it's second nature to ignore error messages on the screen. I'm not saying that it's not my fault, of course, because it definitely was.
1
The default UI has a set of colored dots next to the dots for your inventory that tells you the status of your equipment slots.
White for fully spiritbound, green for repaired, blank for unequipped.
1
Yes, it does! I think it's in a message across the screen as well as in the chat box.
2
I had a MCH who straight up didn't have gloves. His other gear was super low lvl. Is there just not any requirement for shb dungeons? It took longer than a trust run bc of him...
2
Is there just not any requirement for shb dungeons?
Only for the Lv80 Dungeons (which require atleast i410 to enter)
2
Checking the dungeons, it looks like there haven't been any Ilvl requirements for any non-cap dungeons (50/60/70/80) since Heavensward.
2
Tell them they are an asshole for trying to pull that shit and vote kick their ass, you are parsing, probably noticed it the second you did the first pull.
You're not wrong though, but don't enable these people don't carry them through content.
1†
If you tell someone you're parsing and then kick them, if you get reported, you're done. You can't do that.
3
They didn't say "tell them you're parsing" they said "you're parsing so you should have seen they were trash right away and investigated then kicked them"
4
Who said anything about telling them you are parsing? I'm saying OP is parsing, so he should have been able to tell something was wrong on the first pull, quick inspect later, and vote kick his ass for wasting everyones time.
2
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1
Kinda reminds me of healing that dungeon and trying to figure out why the tank a drk wasn't using TBN only to learn he's probably never done of his job quest lol.
1
Are you able to set the color of those info boxes? Mine are always gray.
1
That's the light theme.
1
It's new in 5.0, system config > theme settings (the icon that looks like 2 pages side by side, 3rd from the bottom)
1
Considering,that just on this past week i saw :
A machinist using the makai gun,in the lvl 73 dungeon. ( i235) I told them i refused to participate in that dungeon( after i asked the machinist if they had a better weapon,and got told "not yet" even though the lvl 70 class quests award you a lvl 290 weapon,so there were more problems then it appeared at first ) ,and they left and took the penalty.
A sch using full lvl 50 (i120) gear,on a lvl 61 dungeon. They vote kicked me out,and after,i helped the sch buy gear from npcs in ishgard/ some from mb on my own buck,since hq is so much better,and somehow cheaper then some of the npc gear.
This shouldnt be a thing,square really needs to set a item level requirement for dungeons.
But... Poetics, straight to Shire/Scaeven, as appropriate. One MSQ run buys a weapon with spares.
At least both learned from it.
I was the SAM in the dohn mheg run ty for doing that :') it would have took forever
I think problem with MSQ might be that the gear you receive from it is tradable.
That scholar should've received like five armor sets in total between 50-60. Guess where those, as well as the gear you bought for him, ended up? Yeah, on the market.
It's an easy mil or few honestly. When I leveled an alt I did the same, but I knew how Poetics work.
Nah, it's always people leveling alt jobs that have the garbage gear. At that point there's no MSQ gear to get.
Thats not even an excuse. With how much poetics you get you can get a full set of I400 gear at 70 very easily. If you do your roulettes you can get a full set for every role + weapons in no time at all.
I'm not saying it's a good reason not to have gear, I'm just saying selling MSQ rewards is practically never the reason.
I literally have an Augmented Shire and Augmented Scaeven set for every job I plan on leveling, and even bought two more Augmented Ironworks Aiming sets for my retainers. There really is no excuse other than that the game doesn't tell you about it
This, I already went ahead and geared up all the other battle jobs at 70 to the ilvl 400 gear. Definitely no excuse it's just plain laziness/carelessness
That's even more reason to not give them any free handouts.
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There really should be ilvl requirements, and I sort of feel like PotD and HoH should maybe give gear or something...?
That's how all this happens, people level 1-70 purely in deep dungeons. It doesn't give enough poetics to buy a set of gear with, they don't have any gear to do class quests with to get AF gear, they just get to 70 and have nothing. Obviously they can go to a vendor or market board but lots just push the optimize gear button and then queue for a dungeon hoping to get carried and get some drops along the way.
They already do, kind of. You can get a copy of the Weapons you use in there in exchange for lowering your in-Dungeon Weapon/Armor Levels (to varying degrees depending on which Weapon exactly it is) and those have legit Stats, being iLv235 (Padjal, the white PotD ones), iLv255 (Kinna, the red PotD ones) or iLv365 (Empyrium, the HoH ones)
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