The Middle Class in America Should Pay MUCH Higher Taxes

For reference, I recommend going to the OECD stats pages and sorting personal income tax rates at each threshold.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CTS_ETR

Compared to other developed countries, our middle and especially our upper middle class citizens pay VERY low taxes. This shouldn't be surprising, given the common refrain in politics that the "middle class should pay less taxes" which has been argued by both parties for decades.
I grew up quite poor, and at that time I agreed that having the lowest middle class taxes possible was beneficial. Frankly, I just didn't appreciate how well the middle class lives. As a working professional now in my 30's, I see my peers blowing huge amounts of money (compared to my poor friends) on hobbies, dinners, nice cars and many of the other luxuries of life. They have no concept that just miles away from their fancy two-story homes, lower class folks are having to choose between paying their car note and eating for the week.
Also worth noting is that income has serious diminishing marginal utility. People have to spend the first $20k per year or so just to survive. A person who makes $35k per year only has $15k worth of expendable income, whereas a person making $100k has $80k - it's not a three-fold increase in expendable income, it's over a five-fold one.

Some folks might say that we should soak the ultra rich instead. That's fair, since they have the greatest diminishing marginal utility on their money, but frankly, there isn't enough of it. If we taxed everyone in the 1% of American incomes at 100% of WEALTH (not income, wikipedia claims this wealth amounts to $29.5T in 2018) it only pays the bills we currently have for a little less than 8 years. For income, if we took all of their money for the year (~$1.6T) it would pay for about half of the budget. Clearly these people are very wealthy and can afford to pay more taxes, but there simply aren't enough of them to pay for a functioning society.
America desperately needs a better social safety net appropriate to it's wealth. We don't need middle class housewives buying a second Peloton, we need to make sure struggling people aren't fighting to just get by.

Posted Aug 16, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

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ForOne814if you're under 17 please don't ever talk to me•

Let's destroy middle class and make everyone poor.

15
PoopMobile9000•

It's not like tax money disappears, though, the government sends it right back into the economy, buying things and hiring people which creates demand which creates middle class jobs which increases labor demand and raises salaries.

1
ForOne814if you're under 17 please don't ever talk to me•

the government sends it right back into the

Pockets of some people.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Other countries' middle classes pay higher effective taxes and they haven't destroyed their economy. This is really just American propaganda that doesn't hold up to the facts.

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ForOne814if you're under 17 please don't ever talk to me•

And I think that they pay too much taxes. The corruption is not that bad there at least, mainly because countries are pretty small.

1
ex-libtard•

Is that why other countries arent like America? You know, the worlds richest and most powerful country.

1
RotundEnforcerOP•

Because they didn't have the advantage of being the general financier of WWII. If they had sucked up half the world's wealth over a decade they probably would have done well for themselves too.

0
ex-libtard•

Indeed if they played the game as well as America they would be like America. Very perceptive.

Haha and now we get to charge then for protection. Smart play dummies.

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unpopopinxThat’s gay.•

Sounds like you’re just jealous of people that had disposable income so you want the government to take it. How petty.

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[deleted]•

[removed]

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ex-libtard•

"The economy will be made better by me promising free stuff" - geniuses

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RotundEnforcerOP•

In addition to a better social safety net, we are also taking out trillions in loans, which higher taxes could help pay for.

-2
ex-libtard•

If you need to borrow some money just ask directly.

2
RotundEnforcerOP•

Oh I don't need any money, just a brain so I can be as smart as you senpai!

1
ex-libtard•

Ah well you'll have to find the yellow brick road first.

1
yoitsyourguy•

Why can’t we tax the rich?

0
The_Quackening•

honestly theres so much wrong here that its not even worth arguing.

raising taxes significantly on the middle class would tank the economy.

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PoopMobile9000•

No it wouldn't.

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The_Quackening•

the entire reason you give cuts to the middle class is to fuel the economy. When people that are not rich get extra money, generally they spend it things they dont have that they need, their utility for each dollar they have is so high.

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PoopMobile9000•

the entire reason you give cuts to the middle class is to fuel the economy.

No it isn't, it's so you can talk about your "middle class tax cut" in campaign ads.

1

So your solution is destroying the middle class

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Higher taxes don't destroy the middle class, hence other countries not being destroyed. You're drinking the kool-aid my friend. =)

-4

And do you know why those country’s pay higher taxes?

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Because their citizenry has a greater willingness to invest in their communities?

1

No it’s because they’re lower population demands it, take Norway for example it’s citizens pay higher taxes for their social programs “which is the same for other Scandinavian, Nordic nations” and almost every citizen has a stake in Norway’s oil industry, higher taxes may work in a country of 5 million not so much for a country of 330 million

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Amen to that.

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PoopMobile9000•

Why?

1
postnudeplayhard•

Whata travesty, people working hard to earn nice things when the government could just be stealing more money from them to give to people that simply are just me not making a lot? There is a name for that system you refer to and it's called, not in my fucking country. Taxes are far too high on the working class, middle class and even those without class. what we need is far less government spending, far fewer government pet projects and far less politicians squandering money constantly while pretending that they're going to give little nothings away to purchase elections. All of this free this free that bullshit needs to stop so that those working for their money can enjoy a bit more of it.

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1LoneAmerican•

I grew up quite poor, and at that time I agreed that having the lowest middle class taxes possible was beneficial. Frankly, I just didn't appreciate how well the middle class lives. As a working professional now in my 30's

How did this happen? How did you make yourself more valuable to the market place if you grew up poor? Was there a method that you used to accomplish this impossible task? or was it some sort of dumb luck.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

I think it happened to me the same way it happens to most people. I worked pretty hard and I got really lucky to meet the right people. I could have just as easily been poor my whole life, I would think.

1
1LoneAmerican•

The luckiest people I know work harder on preparedness so they can act when opportunity presents itself.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

I'd like to think I did the same, but hindsight bias is so real. Lots of people who climb the ladder want to attribute it all to skill and hard work, but in reality it's just so hard to know the counter-factual. I worked very hard, but I'm sure it wasn't all me.

1
Grapedd•

I'm willing to pay higher taxes if I get a say in where the money is going. Things we should spend more tax dollars on, education, healthcare, transportation, infrastructure. Things we shouldn't spend more tax dollars on, the military.

3
PoopMobile9000•

I'm willing to pay higher taxes if I get a say in where the money is going.

You do, it's called "voting."

2
Grapedd•

Precisely my good fellow

2
stubble3417•

The middle class makes $25k-$50k/year. The median household makes $60k/yr combined. You're talking about the top 10-15% of earners.

2
PublicFurryAccount•

Yep! That’s something people miss a lot.

2
RotundEnforcerOP•

This is actually a super fair criticism. It kinda depends what you call "middle." You are right that the true median earners making $60k per year, especially if that household is a family of three or four, they are not rolling in money and probably should pay appropriately low taxes. However, when politicians talk about and pass "middle class" tax cuts, they often include families earning up to $200k. These "middle class" families should pay more, though you could argue they aren't really middle class.

1
stubble3417•

Yeah, that's a good point.

2
SliverSerfer•

I'm in this group you want to tax more and we paid more in taxes for last year than the median family in our city makes.

If they can't figure out how to spend that amount of money responsibly why should they have any more?

How about less taxes and better fiscal oversight, damn that would be logical.

1
RotundEnforcerOP•

If you truly paid more in taxes than the median family in your city makes, even if you lived in CA with the highest total taxation rates in the country, then your income is so large that you really should pay more in taxes. You have benefited enormously from the network effects the country has provided to you, and it's fair to ask you to pay more.
Frankly, I'm kind of surprised by this logic. I know that I could pay much higher taxes and still be very comfortable, and it sounds like you make much more than me. You really can't swing it?

1
SliverSerfer•

Why should I swing it?

I live in Missouri. Some years ago we voted through riverboat gambling, a large portion of the tax revenue was to go to improve Missouri schools, great thing right!?!?

So the taxes start pouring in and what do the politicians do? They take the money that was going to education (not the tax money, the originally budgeted funds) and spend it elsewhere, so no net gain for education.

I'm completely agianst higher taxes unless we have much better fiscal responsibility.

Btw, you don't have to pay the minimum in taxes, feel free to cut a bigger check if you're feeling all guilty.

1
MrFahrenheit1o1•

How about, no one pays taxes?

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RotundEnforcerOP•

And have no rule of law? No military? No police force? No infrastructure? This sounds like an ineffective idea.

0
Triavan•

Rule of law is a consequence of involuntary taxation? Do, please, attempt to torture logic into explaining that particular statement.

1
BoxerBlake•

Anybody that advocates for higher taxes is a fool.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

I'm the fool! =)

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jmcclelland2004•

Absolutely let's just tax ourselves to prosperity. I can see no reason this would fail.

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1LoneAmerican•

Well it hasn't truly been tried before in the history of mankind. Why nobody thought of it before is beyond me. It's a new concept.

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bakersmt•

What middle class?

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RotundEnforcerOP•

LOL! Underrated comment right here. =)

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Triavan•

A round of applause for the American public education system, everybody.

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UnpopularOpinionModsMOD•

Is this a Popular or Unpopular opinion? Please reply to this comment with either 'popular' or 'unpopular'

#Please do not vote on your own submissions.

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motorbird88•

Your link says we have one of the highest. Quit fucking lying.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Taxing Wages: Table I.1: Threshold 3 marginal rate has us at 16/24 OECD countries, with a rate of 22% compared to the top 5 average of ~37.5%.

And my lie was.... ?

=)

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[deleted]•

[removed]

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Wowpanda42•

but we also pay our own healthcare in the US unlike other developed countries.

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RotundEnforcerOP•

Not really. US government subsidizes healthcare to the tune of $1.5T per year, or about half the total. Really, we pay for socialized healthcare AND private healthcare.

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TheThankUMan66•

If you are middle class you don't have a housewife.

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_Woodrow_•

Why the middle class and not the rich and super rich?

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1LoneAmerican•

Are you assuming there is only a certain amount of money in circulation? Money is manufactured as the value in the economy expands. The pie is always getting bigger.

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_Woodrow_•

Jesus Christ- I have never seen someone so rabid to make up a strawman to argue against. I didn’t say or even imply anything near that.

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1LoneAmerican•

Do you believe there is only so much money available and the rich are hording it?

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_Woodrow_•

No.

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