In preparation for Astral Sabnock tomorrow...

Discussion

Sabnock nightmare was the hardest nightmare we've gotten so far, so I was thinking it would be helpful to remind myself on the mechanics in sabnock nightmare.

TLDR; If you did sabnock nightmare previously, you will remember charge canceling and baiting, baiting the nightmare vortex away from the middle, spamming FS and breaking right hand -> left hand. And it inflicts curse.

​

While sabnock astral will likely not be as hard of a dps check as nightmare, it's possible that master astral will hit just as hard as nightmare. And that worries me a lot, because if it does, it will be the hardest master astral so far.

Mechanics:

Charges: Sabnock charges across the room, giant rectangular purple aoe. Extremely annoying because you have to chase him across the arena multiple times, but also 2-3shots your team. He does this twice at the start of every cycle. The way we used to handle it back during sabnock nightmare was that someone would run in to intentionally be the closest target from the boss, so that the boss targets him, and run clockwise around the boss in a tight circle. As with other bosses in the game, when the bosses fails to target the closest target after a number of seconds, the attack is canceled. For Sabnock, it was around 270 degrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkE-4EMrSs8

Canceling is easier to do at the start of the fight. Later on in the fight, if cancelling cannot be done, then baiting the charge is a reasonable alternative. https://youtu.be/xnkhpefHD0w?t=176 The boss targets his charge in the direction of the closest target, so you can intentionally bait the charge against or along the wall, to minimise the distance of the charge. This keeps AIs safe, and lessens the distance everyone has to run.

​

Nightmare vortex: Sabnock uses phantasmal wolves (the ring thing that valfarre uses) but instead of the criss-cross attack like valfarre, he uses nightmare vortex. This is a purple aoe that chases the character you are controlling. When it lands, it becomes a vortex that grows. After a set amount of time, it explodes as a purple aoe. AIs that get caught in vortex is often a 1hit ko. The way we used to do it during nightmare was that players would run out from the middle when vortex was used, i.e. making the purple aoe that chases you land far away from the middle of the boss, so that the middle of the arena will be safe from the growing vortexes. You can also switch to a ranged character before vortex will be used. Remember to check your AI teammates if they will be safe when vortexes are growing, and move them in.

​

Dark Side: Sabnock punches half of the arena, purple aoe, likely a 1hit ko for AI. If that arm has been broken it will be red instead. With the AI changes it's likely AI will run out on their own, but move them manually if they don't.

​

Controlling your AI: While there's lots that can be improved about the current AI, the only thing we can do is to learn how to control the AI. Honestly, this should be in its own thread, I can talk in more detail about controlling AI if people are interested about it, but for sabnock I will just talk in brief.

In order to make AI run to your side instead of attacking, you need to run far enough away from the boss to break target range (identified by the target circle underneath their feet). This distance is longer if you are controlling a ranged character, and shorter if you are controlling a melee. Getting your AI to you is important before charge happens, because melee AI will be caught by charge. AIs also need some time to run to your side, because they are just moving to you, they are not animation-cancel rolling to dodge towards you, they are just moving to you when they have a gap in their combo (Imagine if you are playing without the ability to dodge, and you want to move somewhere during your combo. The animation lock is pretty big).

​

Recommended characters: Since sabnock astral isn't here yet, I will only recommend characters that will definitely be useful.

Lead with swords, Alfonse, Albert, Odetta. Swords are great at destroying the OD gauge with their Force Strikes, remember to spam force strikes as swords. Optimal combo is 2 or 3taps then force strike (optimal for swords all the time, even when not in overdrive, for all content, for all swords). Equip The Shining Overlord + Stellar Show/Sister's Day Out, and transform with them to get the str buff. Transforming with any other character will not give your character with TSO the dragon claws buff.

Don't bring a healer if your healer does not have curse res. There's nothing more useless than a healer that is cursed. Ideally you want to bring a healer that can also curse heal, but having curse res on the healer is minimum (Heavenly Holiday gives 100% curse res).

​

TLDR; If you did sabnock nightmare previously, you will remember charge canceling and baiting, baiting the nightmare vortex away from the middle, spamming FS and breaking right hand -> left hand. And it inflicts curse.

Good luck to all of us tomorrow!

Posted Aug 23, 2019, 8:55 AM UTC

10367
supersonic159Natalie•

But your guide doesn't cover how to handle the nightmare level salty tears the sub will generate.

That said, very comprehensive!

39
AwkwardSpaceTurtleOP•

With how much tears phraeganoth brought to the sub, I'm really worried about sabnock. I'm hoping the AI changes since sabnock nightmare makes a big difference, but if it hits as hard as it did in nightmare, I think lots of people will struggle with this.

9
supersonic159Natalie•

The tears for Phrae were completely unwarranted. This next raid will be harder, but hopefully just as well designed as the last, so we'll see. The sub will whine regardless.

3†
jaru0694•

This sub is getting progressively worse at handling "hard" content. The opportunities for them to get carried is a lot lower since the token change and it shows with the amount of spam the sub gets after these events.

More on topic, If it is anything like the other raids, I think it is important for those who have Cupids to save their dragon for raid-wide heals, rather than damage. Phantasmal wolves (or the residual circle thingy) generally punish the AI pretty hard.

23
HariantShining Star•

The sub has always been pretty casual, it's just we've gotten some more challenging content lately making it more noticable.

I doubt this raid will be worse than the last just because Cupid exists.

10
Poketostorm•

To be honest... kinda, yeah. The AI is janky, but from the ARs we’ve had so far, I haven’t had much issue getting deathless semi-consistently, even with subpar DPS. Taking the time to figure out how to best manipulate or protect AI for each boss was an interesting process. Certainly frustrating during the early stages of learning, though.

Phraeg, as you said, wasn’t too bad. Dodge breath, disengage or freeze volcano and you’re usually fine, barring random or bad Phraeg positioning during volcano phase. It certainly had one of my favorite AR runs ever - a PUG that knew to target farthest volcano, used stickers to mark one, plus me carrying the last remaining ally at the end with a full team (I think an unexpected breath wiped two teams at like 15% remaining).

2
supersonic159Natalie•

Thank you for this comment, I could not agree with it more. It's exactly what I though about the fight too.

The difficulty and process is what makes it fun and rewarding.

0†
Furycrab•

I don't think they were. I did it with discord announcing the intent (Which volcano to focus) and it still took a few tries. I'm fairly sure I would have given up if I still had to do the full 10 attempts instead of the 1 successful run. (Didn't care to buy extra pieces) because I don't have 8k-10k strength of a Water team like some do.

There was a bit of a trick to it, in that if you didn't have hard 24k+ carries you could do it by backing up seriously preemptively every tail swipe until the tail dies. However the only tools you had to communicate that are stickers.

It wasn't unjustified at all.

1
supersonic159Natalie•

It was completely unjustified. If you took the time to learn the fight you could get flawless 90% of the time. I ran with alliance members and that was the case for most of us. Once you understand it, it's honestly a simple and well designed fight.

-1
Gentleman_Mix•

I found myself amongst those who were frustrated by the difficulty but I also just shrugged and figured that I just don't get that until I get better or upgrade to more 5 star weapons. I feel like you can't be casual about the game and get ruffled when "nightmare" level content is too difficult for you. But, perhaps I'm belittling how frustrating it can be for some who simply can't or won't commit the time to a mobile game.

2
coolboy2984best boi•

Calling it now that Astral Sabnock hits harder.

1
TchbuaYaten•

Couldnt complete nightmare last time with a 19k might team.. ptsd ensues

30
ALovelyAnxietyJulietta•

might is a terrible gague to be fair. its about str.

you should be fine this time around though

30

sooo many HDT prints and off ele adventurers everytime I looked

12
Diodon•

its about str

Normally yes, but astral raids tend to be more weighted towards surviving than fast burn dps.

3
Nichol134•

It’s hard to judge by might only though. I was able to beat it with a 17k might team since I had more DPS than the majority of PUBs even if they were higher might than me.

3
engrng•

Looks like it’s another weekend of using 9x shards on an Expert run for me.

14
ALovelyAnxietyJulietta•

no no no

Come to the discord and go to the nightmare astral tab. someone will help you

8
hergumbules•

They are saints. I tried maybe 20 times to beat the last astral raid with randos and would be the only one left standing 1-2 mins in. Tried once with some discord people and got it first try. Would have been deathless too but my Lily decided to face tank a fire breath right before we finished.

2
SieghlyonGala Mym•

Sadly only a small part of the overall playerbase come here, i can still expect horrible pub with people who are mightpadding or do'nt know what they are doing.

Also i hope deathless won't be a big pain

11
AwkwardSpaceTurtleOP•

As usual. Hopefully this post increases the chance of getting a good group for all of us. Even if its a 10% to a 15% that’s still something.

3
HariantShining Star•

I doubt this sub houses even 5% of the playerbase

2
Dach_Akrost•

What does everyone think about ryozen so the teams have access to a def buff for double buff healing?

6
merpofsilenceNorwin•

Should be fine although with how many people are going to be bringing cupids and hildegards im not sure itll be necessary or not.

1
Dach_Akrost•

Only problem with relying on cupid is the heal is a a HoT. But I see what ur saying. With the last few being a dont die kinda raid I feel using the king of not dieing kinda makes sense.

2
N4meless_King_•

Hmm looks like we'll be running a DPS (undecided who yet) with old man Captain doublebuff himself as support (Ryozen) plus Vixel and Hilde for heals.

5
TwintailedTerror•

Ryozen seems like he will be a godsend for this one.

Teamwide defense buff? Inherent Healing Doublebuff? Full curse immunity?

2
N4meless_King_•

Ryozen might even be a viable support unit for off element raids. His kit is so helpful for self and team survival.

2
Novalith_Raven•

I really hate these Master Astral Raids...

5
Dach_Akrost•

Do you have a group of people that you can practice with?

1
Novalith_Raven•

Sadly, no. I can only practice with the PUGs within the game, and it's pretty difficult.

2
Dach_Akrost•

If ur est my guild has room. We are not perfect but we work together if your interested. Its reign 4814 2029

1
The_PlanetBest Boi•

Btw, since this isn't a dps check, so I suppose we could bring Hilde with Phoenix/Freyja or whatever the heck the healer you would like to bring. But you might need to main them for the rest of the fight in order to get benefited from this.

4
HariantShining Star•

We have an on-element dragon that heals, and is a STR dragon as well, so probably not. Phoenix Lowen was only a thing because Freyja is a 5-star almost no one has.

3
The_PlanetBest Boi•

Welp, still, if you didn't have Cupid to heal and are dying to his attack, use phoenix as last resort could be a good idea.

1
Din_of_WinAll The Healers•

Eh... Light has Cupid to handle Dragon form Healing (along with a substantial Crit boost). You shouldn't need to equip off-element heal-y dragons. That setup could be more of a liability than anything else.

2
Dach_Akrost•

In regards to chasing, remember we have ten minutes so let him charge

3
Suasive2•

I've had huge success with all the Astral Raids so far, in the standard quick play queues. Just wanted to contribute by posting some of my strategy and my prepared setup so far.

Tip 1: Expect to FAIL a few times while you learn the fight.

This is the only content that resembles an actual MMO raid, go in the first few times with the full expectation you will fail, instead pay extra attention on learning the fight. Learn the boss patterns and in particular, after which moves the bosses do their most dangerous attack. After you have figured out the fight you can tweak your strategy and setup accordiningly. It's rewarding and your success chance will go up drastically.

Tip 2: Be FLEXIBLE in your team setup.

For example ranged AI have no hope of dodging cone attacks, so for Astral Valfarre I controlled Lowen (with Phoenix) and only bought melee AI members. For Astral Phraegonoth, I bought 2 water swords and two water healers, the burn resistance was completely unneeded since none of his relevant attacks burn. Importantly, you can use a bunch of defensive dragons and wyrmprints you don't use in the other modes since you have a full ten minutes. Failing the quest because your team was too slanted towards just damage will actually take more time.

Tip 3: COMMUNICATE. Mix up your STICKER setup.

I did Astral Phraegonoth in quick play rooms. If you put in the effort and learned the fight better than your teammates, similar to an MMO raid, help them out!! Be flexible with your sticker setups --- you can put the meme stickers back on later. Using Astral Phraeg as an example again, I know the rotation and when the spin attacks come, so I use the "Look Out" sticker in advance of each one to tell them to get away. When the volcanoes come, I used the "Together" and "On Me" sticker to get teammates to focus the same one, and continued to spam it while rolling in the corner to tell everyone to wait while the other volcanoes went off.

These tips haven't failed me yet, and is the reason why I feel super comfortable with purposely not spending all my Astral Pieces at once so I can save them to help out my Alliance members.


My pre-release setup for Astral Sabnock:

Albert

44 nodes, 5.3 weapon

WP: 1) The Shining Overlord, 2) Sister's Day out

Dragon: MUB Lindwurm/Cupid (1UB) for heal

Notes: Force strike damage is extremely useful vs these bosses. The lack of Curse Res is completely irrelevant since he is my player controlled character, in addition to the 10 minute timer. Sabnock's attacks are massively telegraphed.

Alfonse

44 nodes, Folkvangr (MUB)

WP: Resounding Rendition, Stellar Show

Dragon: Gilgamesh (1UB)/Liger (2UB)

Notes: Same role as Albert, but since he has less FS damage and Curse Res he is left on the AI spot.

Ryozen

45 nodes, 5.3 off-element (Ocean Lord)

WP: Jewels of the Sun, Beach Battle (Bellathorna is identical)

Dragon: Unicorn (MUB)

Notes: Throws out +25% team def and makes the run way safer in case an AI member gets clipped by a a random AoE or Phantasmal attack. I have 0UB Summer Siren I could run on him but I would rather just have him be totally immortal.

Vixel

4*, 38 nodes, 4.3 off element (MUB marine staff/fire one)

WP: Study Rabbits, Heavenly Holiday

Dragon: Unicorn (MUB)

Notes: Regen healer. I'm trying more to keep other player's units alive rather than mine since Ryozen is on the team. 4* healers have worked for every single Astral Raid so far so I predict no need to promote him. Has Heavenly Holiday for the Curse Res to maintain heal output.

Closing thoughts: Astral raids has a ten-minute timer, and is about more than just independently dodging attacks to win. I often see comments on how this mode feels to them like they are bashing their head against a brick walls. Hopefully these tips help some people approach the mode with a more open approach to learning and tweaking their setup. I like the mode a lot personally.

3
skipshentaiscenesveronica•

Did he inflict curse often enough to warrant leading with Alfonse vis-a-vis Albert or Odetta?

2
AwkwardSpaceTurtleOP•

yea most of his attacks curses, including the wolf rings. But you should lead with sword either way to spam force strikes and get the benefit from TSO.

4
skipshentaiscenesveronica•

Yeah I have Alfonse, I'll use him then. Thankss

3
SpikeRosered•

One boons for this raid is the BiS Dragon has a heal would should help on sustain. To the point where people didn't run healers in Nightmare at all. With a Healer and Cupid this Master shouldn't be too bad...hopefully...

2
merpofsilenceNorwin•

Most people forget that Nightmare Sabnock was only so hard because Cupid's crit buff was bugged and only affected your team of 4 and not the entire raid like hes supposed to.

1
HariantShining Star•

Cupid's crit buff was bugged and only affected your team of 4 and not the entire raid like hes supposed to.

Do you have a source that they've acknowledged it as a bug? I cannot find this in the bug list anywhere. Others have mentioned it's a translation issue, and the JP description appropriately says it heals allies and buffs team.

1
merpofsilenceNorwin•

I don't pay enough attention to bug fixes so I wouldn't know which one it was if they announced it at all.

But I remember that cupid did not buff entire raid teams back then. That's why there was a post of a group clearing using shishimai and cleared in very good time.

But at some point it was fixed because for nightmare Barbary I was using cupid on my elisane (Didn't have a 4th water dragon) and his buff was hitting the entire raid team.

I didn't try cupid in any of raids until Barbary because I could have sworn it only buffed your party

1
TwintailedTerror•

And if you have him bring a Shishimai, his skill buff applies to the entire raid team if I recall.

Healing Doublebuff prints/characters are also good for survivability. For example, Ryozen has it as a passive.

Lastly, Dprep prints are nice but they definitely aren't as crucial as Nightmare Raids since these are longer.

2
MagicalPotatoXIV•

If it hasn’t been mentioned already, running MUB The Dragon Smiths on your whole team with someone defense buffing makes you almost unkillable even without a dedicated healer.

2
thed3alMegaman•

I am gonna bring Alfonse, Ryozen, SLuca, and Estelle with Heavenly Holiday.

Alfonse for FSing and quick skills for max iframing, SLuca for coability, Ryozen for coability + Team Def + Healing doublebuff stack synergy, and Estelle because best healer girl (no Hildegarde ._.).

Good luck everyone.

1
RebirthGhost•

I think Ryozen's double buff synergizes better with Vixels team regen potency increase. Also since Vixel gives energy, that mixes better with Sluca who gets double energy.

1
NavarathIeyasu•

I have both Vixel and Estelle -- but Vixel ain't curse resistant... so...should I still use him?

1
RebirthGhost•

Estelle is only 25% curse res, So whoever you choose I would suggest getting a curse resist Wyrmprint. Also go with whoever is more economical for you. Such as if you already have Estelle built up and don't have the resources for both the wyrmprint and building up Vixel, then go with Estelle. Regardless of who you choose, just remember to not rush the first few second of Master and read the pattern.

1
NavarathIeyasu•

Some bosses you don't need 100% resistance, right?. Do you know what is required for Sabnock? I have Estelle up to 70% if I use Auspex Prayer print. Vixel is also built up, but I don't have heavenly holiday...

2
obro1234•

Honestly I haven't found any of the astral raids hard. Its the process of succeeding about failing and learning from it? Sure some deathless can be aggravating to get, really it was only phragenoth for me with the cano thing and positioning, but can we really expect everything to be 100% in our control? Just do what you can.

At the end of the day, just beat the raid. 10 completions and 10-15 wyrmite is better than the stress of trying to get 25 wyrmite and stressing yourself out so much you end up settling for experts.

1
gentlegreengiant•

Or...you do what I do and give up, and use all your pieces on expert instead.

0
kingofwale•

Yeah. I just won’t do it. There is no chance I can find 3 other competent players in a general lobby...

And I refused to go through discord for a mobile game

-11
9thdragonkitty•

I’ve gotten deathless on all the astral raids to date in PUBs. Complaining about them is kinda just a meme

Even in discord you’ll have failed runs because a lot of people are there looking for carries.

13
abhldr•

YEAH. message boards ONLY. why use discord. mobile games are DIFFERENT than non-mobile games. because they're mobile. not suited for discord. only CONSOLE or PC or TABLETOP

2
LetianBelial•

If you can't do deathless in PUBLIC rooms, then prob you're the problem lmao

-5