Source
r/poker•
SecureSyrup

This company provides live dealer games for ignition/bodog/Mybookie.ag/other sites. They are potentially scamming, and the evidence is pretty damming so far. I am doing this so other don't lose their money. I was watching a streamer who figured this out, shout out to Nico. I wanted to post for aware

Discussion

I have been watching Nicosia2014 a twitch streamer whom has live streamed approx 15k hands of live dealer blackjack (the guy is a god somehow 24 hours stream as well). After completing some math on stream last night with chat and analyzing the 15k hand sample Nico had the dealer has way too high a percentage of up card being a 7,8,9,10,A, the casino dealing shoe appears to be possibly rigged. The casino appears to have the ability to change cards via a remote switch based off the shoe they use called an I-SHOE which scans cards prior to their removal from shoe. This casino also places the first card as a hidden card for dealer that they receive because this is the only card that cannot be controlled. Once that hidden card is placed the machine is able to select the up card which causes players to play perfect basic strat wise, and they will end up busting more. This shoe is available by Scientific games, however this site also has it shown as a cheat device.

I pray that r/poker leaves this up for awareness as I know some poker players do hit the pits on occasion. The stream for Nico is small and I wanted this revelation to be known to the wider community that they are potentially cheating. The dealers don't seem to be in on the scam as we could tell. We were also counting all of the shoes and during +20 running counts on many occasions the dealer busted way higher percentage than what is within statistics with these BJ rules. This blackjack provider appears to provide blackjack for a multitude of 3rd party sites like Mybookie.ag and others. I have posted a link to the imgur of the cheat device listed on a cheating website. I will also list the link of scientific games who also provides this I-shoe. The other really funny thing is that if you are a standard consumer you cannot even buy one of these shoes to test out or use/compare that to a cheating rigged shoe. Perhaps these are sent from scientific games rigged with a remote card controller.

https://imgur.com/a/4FAqTXG

https://imgur.com/a/q7YdKez

https://www.sggaming.com/Games/Shuffle-Master/Shufflers-and-Utilities/Intelligent-Shoes/i-Shoe-Auto-7808

https://www.cardslenses.com/baccarat-poker-camera/casino-game-remote-control-blackjack-shoe.shtml

The cheating site also describes the shoe like this

"Description Our pro version remote control blackjack shoe can make your winner dream come true.

This remote control blackjack shoe is used with common playing deck and it is translucent which will give other players a sense of reliable.

So, how to play poker tricks with this remote control blackjack shoe?

Inside the blackjack shoe, there is one baccarat poker camera, and a signal transmitter. When the camera read the cards, you can see the image from a monitor, and of course, there is a receiver behind the monitor. You can see the poker suits and point from the monitor. You can see one playing cards at one time.

The remote control is used to exchange the next playing cards and holding the playing cards you don't need.

Compare with another kind of normal playing cards blackjack shoe, this remote control blackjack shoe is the pro version for it has the function of exchanging cards.

And, this poker camera blackjack shoe is not for single use, you can work with your friends.

Related Links"

Note - the more I look at this site jesus christ they have clear acrylic shoes with cameras inside, so many non-obvious methods of cheating. I would be sketched by more online casinos after visiting this site.

streamer whom old VODs show 15k hands of the shoe in use

https://www.twitch.tv/nicosia2014

P.S. The only reason I am doing this for is visibility. I don't think people should get their money scammed from them in an unfair or rigged game. That is bullshit and I want to stop others whom may be down the wrong path. Also when the site was asked why they hide the first dealer card as almost no other casino does online or land based they said " because mah procedure" LOOOOL!

INb4 Costa Rican scam artists INb4 shills say its not rigged

PPS Also this site should make you more aware of what cheat devices exist to better protect yourselves as well. With this stuff on the market I would question most high stakes homes games.

PPSS I also linked a vod of a sequence when they open up the shoe due to a feed error

https://clips.twitch.tv/prettypolitealligatorlitfam

Posted Sep 1, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

3148
Furples•

It would be super ironic if the online live dealer backjack games were actually less fair than the pure online blackjack games on the same site

16
constantbabble•

That wouldn't be ironic at all. The costs of having live dealers and equipment and online studio is "way higher" than an online game so it makes sense that it would be more likely to rig the live game.

6
Furples•

Ironic in the sense that I imagine that a lot of gambling fish trust the live play games more because they can physically “see” what’s going on

5
SecureSyrupOP•

I am a blackjack beginner, but once I saw this stuff going down I had to say something. I appreciate your input sir. Hope you have a good holiday if you are state side labor day! I have played maybe .5m to 1m hands of poker, but just recently started to learn blackjack. Hope every out there in the poker community is having a good weekend and building the bankroll!

5
SebastianH3•

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lKrOLvUiMJQ

Literal proof of cheating

3
constantbabble•

Also notice he glances off to his right where somebody offscreen is probably signaling him. He glances right, gets his big shit eating grin, and pulls the move.

1
theblackjackguruguy•

not even the same company

1
Nicosia2014•

There is a lot of controversy about this topic. TRUST ME, THAT VIG PROVIDER IS SCAM.

You are welcome to check my channel vods over 10k hands played and do the math.

What i'm wondering is this few things:

  1. Why they don't show open the dealer's first card dealt? instead they keep it hidden and show open the 2nd one. (maybe to choose the showing card??) if dealer gets 7 or up they make the player to risk first, which is the biggest advantage the house have. Player bust first.
  2. Why they have that i-shoe? they have so many problems with it. I don't see any benefits. Better clear acrylic shoe holder for transparency.
  3. Why they are in Costa Rica, and my credit card get charged by an international (china) company?

After Checking what that i shoe can be programmed to do i wont be playing anymore in that VIG provider.

www.twitch.tv/nicosia2014

Please contact me add me in twitch. I wish someone can prove me wrong. I would love to trust this site since they have the best rules for the online blackjack. (6 decks, allowed double after split and checking dealers 10 for BJ)

Evolution gaming rules are too tight to win.

2
d0wnsideofme•

What i'm wondering is this few things: Why they don't show open the dealer's first card dealt? instead they keep it hidden and show open the 2nd one. (maybe to choose the showing card??) if dealer gets 7 or up they make the player to risk first, which is the biggest advantage the house have. Player bust first.

This is standard everywhere..

Can you post any actual proof they are cheating you rather than just your opinion and the opinion of OP?

3
Nicosia2014•

here is a proof that the i shoe can hold and exchange cards. https://www.cardslenses.com/baccarat-poker-camera/casino-game-remote-control-blackjack-shoe.shtml

if you need more proof than that then keep playing, for me , after all the hands is seen is enough!check my channel twitch.tv/nicosia2014

0
d0wnsideofme•

I understand the shoe has the ability to change cards, I just want you to prove that this casino is actually cheating you because this is a pretty serious allegation to throw out there without any proof.

1
pwned555•

The fact that they are using a shoe that has the ability to do this is sketchy as fuck, and should be enough for no one to play there. How is a random streamer going to be able to prove they were actually doing that? You can't, that's not the point of this post. The point is that it isn't worth the risk to keep playing there for most people.

1
constantbabble•

Wait. 10k hands? The OP said it was 15k sample. Now you are off by 33% on the sample size!

  1. I think they do the cards like that to avoid training dealers so they can't be hole carded. I don't know what you are talking about dealer getting a 7 or up ... the player always goes first.

  2. They have that i-shoe because they cheat, dude. The evidence you are presenting doesn't prove that, but trust me, they cheat.

  3. Because they are doing illegal financial transactions for their US customers.

0
Nicosia2014•

  1. hole carded?? bro casinos in vegas also training ppl and they training them to deal in the correct order. (dealer should show the fisrt card he get not the second one.) Going first vs a bust card (2-6) it means you dont bust but if you dont even understand that its fine.

  2. the tech is right here, https://www.cardslenses.com/baccarat-poker-camera/casino-game-remote-control-blackjack-shoe.shtml

  3. yes could be, or maybe bc we cant sue them for scaming if they are in costa rica.

1
constantbabble•

You don't hit 12 vs 2, brah? Teach me how not to bust, bro (it is a 38% chance of seeing a small dealer upcard)

How to deal the cards, broski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIpx6DCSGFA

(notice in the second variation that you want them to do, there is a chance that 3rd base can hole card as the second card is slid under the first, so casinos have stopped doing it that way)

1
Nicosia2014•

that video is from a expertvillage. Seriusly post a casino video from those guys?? did you check their channel in youtube??? do they look as casinos experts to you???? In vegas the casinos deal showing the first card of the dealer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xso6C_BdKgc 1:20 start check that is the cortez in vegas

I just i dont understand why you are trying to defend the way they do it in VIG provider.

1
theblackjackguruguy•

[] evidence

[x] hysteria

" After completing some math on stream last night with chat and analyzing the 15k hand sample Nico had the dealer has way too high a percentage of up card being a 7,8,9,10,A, "

Couldn't you at least be bothered to make up some numbers? Out of that 15,000 hand sample exactly how many 7-A through were there?

1
Nicosia2014•

im working on them, it will take me time, you are welcome to check the vods in my channel and also do it.

ill keep you posted when ill have a better idea.

1
shanghaidry•

If you're still working on them, how do you know there are too many 7-A?

1
theblackjackguruguy•

shouldn't you work on it first, then make hysterical claims second? oh wait, this is the internet

1
Nicosia2014•

i didnt do this post, so far what im finding looks not even close to regular odds.

1
NeitherObjective2•

The cheating shoe doesn’t even look like an I-shoe. It’s very noticeably different.

Also, math is required as constantbabble says, accusations of cheating aren’t something to be taken lightly. Any streamer who makes these accusations a without slid evidence should likely never be allowed to stream again, conversely the company should be put out of business if found guilty.

There’s a very high burden of proof to make claims of cheating and I really don’t see that here.

1
constantbabble•

First, I am going to say that I agree that these games are most likely 100% rigged with absolute certainty.

That being said, "during +20 running counts on many occasions the dealer busted way higher percentage than what is within statistics with these BJ rules" is total bullshit because:

  • a) a running count is meaningless unless you believe the gambler's fallacy of things being "due"

  • b) dealer bust percentages by high or low counts changes very little, with less than a 2% variation between TC -6 to TC +6

  • c) dealer busting "way higher" is actually good for the player which kind of runs counter to what you are trying to say.

-4
ChadRickTheSane•

That's the one part of this you have a problem with? Kind of a nitpicky response considering the accusations in the post.

1
constantbabble•

Well, the whole thing is based on a supposed mathematical analysis of a 15k hand sample .... so yeah, pointing out glaringly obvious flaws in the analysis and math is kind of required.

I guess I could mention the use of terms like "way too high" also. Those terms are usually used by the "online poker is rigged" crowd like people crack my aces on the river way too often type shit.

If you have a 15k sample, then how often is a dealer suppose to show a 7,8,9,10,A as an up card (hint: 61%) what percentage did you observe, and with a 15k sample how many standard deviations difference did you have. Not "way too high".

That all be said -- I have no doubts that the online blackjack sites are totally rigged.

2
ChadRickTheSane•

I took from it that the online site in question was using an obvious cheating device that the poster found for sale on a website. The mathematical analysis was just a piece of evidence showing something was suspicious. My takeaway was that just because the card handling devices look legitimate they're not necessarily to be trusted.

1
constantbabble•

The mathematical analysis was just a piece of evidence

Except there wasn't any mathematical analysis and/or the math is flawed so the OP really isn't presenting any "evidence".

And a lot of sites just bring a shoe to the table, there really isn't a need for a cheating card handling device. They can stack the deck off camera and/or how do you even know all the cards at the proper ratio are even in the shoe to begin with?

1
SecureSyrupOP•

It's all good, to each their own opinion I suppose. Just happy to get some info out there to help protect ppl or at least have them play in a land based casino that's regulated to be fair I suppose. Crazy how many other cheat devices that site sells, not that I want to give them any advertisement.

-1
constantbabble•

Dude, I just said one of the things you are measuring is nonsense, you are claiming to have done math but you don't show any actual math or figures, and you haven't used any exact numbers just generalities like "too high", "on many occasions", and "way too high" and your response is ...

"It's all good, to each their own opinion I suppose."

No, there isn't an opinion in math. 1 + 1 = 2. That isn't an opinion and it's not good if you want to "get it out there" that the answer is 3. WTF

Again, I confidently maintain that online sites blackjack sites are rigged

3
MokkaGoldCo•

Why are you such a fucking douchebag. "Wahhh I don't see any math"

He doesn't have to post it to appease your lil bitch ass. You are a nobody, move along.

-2
zabadawabada•

• a) a running count is meaningless unless you believe the gambler’s fallacy of things being “due”

I’m sorry what?

Are you trying to tell someone to show up with real math and then say that card counting is meaningless unless you believe in gambler’s fallacy, falsely implying that a running count isn’t statistically sound when converted to a true count?

A running count is just TC x decks remaining (assuming multideck).

b) dealer bust percentages by high or low counts changes very little, with less than a 2% variation between TC -6 to TC +6

Please show me where you got this information. In all my reading I have never seen this statistic.

c) dealer busting “way higher” is actually good for the player which kind of runs counter to what you are trying to say.

Yes, agreed.

1
Nicosia2014•

what happened several times is when the count went up somehow the dealer gets the hard 20s and players get mixed cards. And of course the bet is bigger. That doesn't proof much but adds to the glass. i believe they using a remote control to exchange cards and set the dealers cards and players cards too. Please check my channel, www.twitch.tv/nicosia2014

1
constantbabble•

I lost several times with pocket aces. Proof poker is rigged.

1
Nicosia2014•

keep defending that site, im wondering how much you up playing there lol

nothing worst than someone whos defending something after losing!!!

1
constantbabble•

Are you trying to tell someone to show up with real math and then say that card counting is meaningless unless you believe in gambler’s fallacy, falsely implying that a running count isn’t statistically sound when converted to a true count?

a) I didn't say card counting was meaningless. I said a running count is meaningless by itself with no context. In a football game, one team scored 20 points. Pretty meaningless without knowing what the other team scored. Running count is meaningless until you know number of decks remaining. Online with typical 8 deck shoes a running count of 20 with 7 decks remaining is TC +2, with 2 decks remaining it is an amazing +10. You are trying to draw conclusions on a condition that could be between +2 and +10? (Notice I converted running count to true count? After conversion it is statistically sound)

b) https://www.blackjackincolor.com/z720Chart.gif

I bet there are a lot of things I know about blackjack that you have not read.

0
zabadawabada•

I bet there is a lot you know that I don’t.

Good job clarifying your first point.

The link you provided shows at least a 4% variation in the dealer making a hand.

1
constantbabble•

The link you provided shows at least a 4% variation in the dealer making a hand.

Learn to read a graph. At TC -1 the bust line is at it's highest point at 23%, maybe 24%, and at it's lowest it never even touches the 20% line. At least 4%? Please try again.

1
Eze_69•

This is r/poker, go post your conspiracy bs in r/gambling

-5
[deleted]•

[removed]

1