Source
r/WorldOfWarships•
AntsCamera

The Italian cruisers are absolute dogshit.

Discussion

I'm sorry, I thought the same about the French DDs but they can actually damage a battleship even a little. Torpedos are so fucking slow they aren't worth using unless point blank.

This is an epic bed shitting in my opinion, SAP shells are fucking useless past the 2 salvos you get into their superstructure before you saturate it , fuck me if I mention the rediculous fucking reload time. I have battleships with guns that actually do damage with faster reload time.

The smoke is ok, good for quick getaways, but there is useless utility in it. No team help, not even a shitty hydro.

The Italian Cruisers are pure shit, and if it wasn't for directives I would not be playing these dogshit ships. It is as if they tried to think up as many gimmicks as possible and cram it one one line of ships.

Posted Oct 28, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC · edited

3263
Mazgazine1Destroyer•

You thought French DDs were useless? Opinion sounds uneducated..

I think when we get to the better sap shells of the tier9/10 , it'll change a bit. I expect a reload speed buff to most of the line in a patch or two.

They kill DDs fast a low tiers and their top speed is awesome. Yes they are kind of low shit but not useless.

French DDs in the same tiers are way strong. Even if they don't get smoke.

30
AntsCameraOPPerpetual Mediocrity•

I thought they were until I got my Mogador, then I fell in love with them.. I have the Le Terrible, that is the ship I learned how to actually play them. I am not throwing shade on the French DDs at all.

I think my biggest gripe is the reload speed, as you say. The SAP deletes destroyers. But also there is the matter of battleships, you can't really touch them.

-6†
vali1005Best way to know your enemy's ship is to play it•

I think my biggest gripe is the reload speed, as you say. The SAP deletes destroyers

Bingo !

The SAP deletes destroyers, and they are no slouches against cruisers too, which is why Italian cruisers have the reload speeds that they have.

14
AvrilTagine•

The problem isn't really that SAP against DDs is overpowered, but the Italian cruisers have long reloads and nerfed ricochet angles in order to keep SAP damage on DDs in line and the result is that SAP underperforms against things that aren't DDs.

It would make sense to lower SAP damage to DDs at the same time as buffing Italian cruiser damage in another way, like a reload buff. The overall firepower against DDs could stay the same, but you would reduce the chance of venezia oneshots out of nowhere (which don't seem like a good game mechanic) and make them more effective against non DDs.

6
loshea•

I agree that damage against BBs is low, but for the moment, I'm ok with that. These cruisers seem sufficiently agile that a potato such as myself was able to get out from under the guns of a Texas without taking too terribly much damage. I was able then to get back to the other side of the map and engage other small and medium targets. I have the feeling, at the moment, that the IT CA's role is going to be rapid response to DD / CA flanks, letting other, heavier guns focus on BBs (and heavy cruisers).

​

I'm more worried about their armor. I got citadelled on what i thought was a well angled midship-strike. My gut says these are not going to be in the least bit forgiving if you get into a bad place, but with their agility (assuming that the Duco D'Aosta is a fair representative), you have the ability to get into and out of tight spots quickly.

3
Mazgazine1Destroyer•

yeah it makes no sense that their reload is so long compared to other similar caliber guns.

I was surprised by the Fantastique, as it had the better guns but not the nice turret layout of the Mogador, but it had a faster reload in general.

Vaquiene was still good, but much harder to hit far away targets with.

Mogador is just awesome, its not going to take long to grind to the Kleber thats for sure.

1
TWINBLADE98Hamakaze Best Girl•

Fantastique

LUUL

1
kebobs22O7 - NA•

If you thought the french DDs are bad I don't really value your opinion considering the mogador and kleber are both nutty farmers in randoms and kleber is growing to be a great clan battles ship. Even lower tiers like le fantesque has been very strong

18
AntsCameraOPPerpetual Mediocrity•

I said I used to, Look at my other comments here friend, I love the moggy and Kleber. Put Aboyneau (sp) on it and you got a spam machine who could literally dodge shots.

Me thinking they sucked was my initial thought, there is no redemption for this Italian deuce they dropped on us, unless the special captain can fire fucking HE, or give us better reload times than a god damned battleship.

-9
covfefe_rexKriegsmarine•

I think I’d rather have them be underpowered than overpowered. It’s hard to balance, as much as I wanted them to bring in some new meta-changing dynamic to the game, that was always going to be out of reach.

They look great. And at the end of the day the Italians still have what might be tier-for-tier one of the most powerful ships in the game in the Gulio Cesar.... so there is that.

6†
AntsCameraOPPerpetual Mediocrity•

They need some work. You can't set fires, you might as well ignore a battleship, I could swim the English channel with an anvil shoved up my ass faster than the torpedos.

They are close with it, the reload time is awful. My biggest gripe, I can deal with them being made of gasoline soaked cardboard.

Good name. I drink Covfefe too.

8
jedidude75•

I could swim the English channel with an anvil shoved up my ass faster than the torpedos.

Thanks for that image lol

9
DovrickTheBear•

This line of thought makes me angry... The Italian cruisers are designed as alpha monsters, They BLAP dd's they take chunks out of other cruisers with the exception of a perfectly angled Moskva. For Battleships, they don't have to shoot SAP into the superstructure as you can shoot the nose or the stern of any battleship and still dish out monster salvos. IFHE has a direct influence on the penetration value of the SAP shells although this is not clearly advertised. The drop in fire% doesn't even affect you. What the cruisers have going for them is a combination of utility (incredibly agile for their size), the safest U-turn in the game with full speed smoke and super-cruisers with unique bow-belt and interior flat-plating that gives them the ability to bow tank enough battleship salvos to reply with twice as many right back.

While slow, the torpedo angles combined with the ship agility makes for a potent ambush or clap back if you get ambushed.

While SAP is what they are famous for, the AP alpha is also monstrous if you need to finish off something that IS saturated but flat enough to pen.

I see all the time people either shooting SAP right at the belt (Wut?!?) or at the superstructure as if it was Haragumo HE.

3
ThasoronOne-Way Submarine•

At what tier do we get those super ships ? Because it sure isn't mid-tiers.

1
DovrickTheBear•

The flat horizontal plate is first present in the Tier IX Brindisi, the full wrap belt armor that covers the whole nose that protects the high citadel and the slightly better-performing and more plentiful turrets are exclusive to the Venezia at Tier X.

Super-cruiser is a navy designation as these ships are not equipped or armored battleships but are the same displacement as the Roma or larger in some cases. It's a slightly different armament but exactly the same methodology as the Graf Spee.

1
secretasianman2265•

They torpedoes are pretty much Sea Mines. Although I've had good luck when kiting people at 13-15km away. The Sea Mines take so long to reach 12km that typically a BB or cruiser will just drive right into them (I think it hits a point where they think they're safe and relax)

1
Private-PublicOn break, back in... eventually•

I wouldn't call them dogshit. They're... alright?

If the enemy team is willing to give their sides to you then they're pretty decent, if unimpressive.

It becomes a challenge when the red team members, regardless of ship class, understand the basic concept of angling and are in a position where they can angle, and with many maps being essentially corridors it's not uncommon to find someone bow-in next to an island. Once they're in that auto bounce zone you can't do much besides aim for the superstructure and hope or disengage.

That was a challenge with UK CLs too, to be fair, but they're able to land consistent deck pens at ~10km (vs the ~14km ITA CAs need), have more effective torpedoes in larger numbers, some of the best concealment, and a smoke better suited to sitting still and throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Meanwhile against an Italian CA you can usually go bow in, load HE if they're also angled, vary your speed to avoid torps, and then there's not much they can do about it if they can't overmatch.

5
EekbraileH-41 > Kurfürst•

There are important historical reasons for this.

4
FurryCrew•

A 30k game is a good game for me in an Italian CA....

These tech tree ships make the 2 Ducas look positively overpowered!

4
zarth14•

My biggest problem is the AP shares the same reload as the SAP while having the same damage as other ships with the same caliber guns. There's no reason a 15cm gun should have 15s reload and only do 3.8k AP max.

4
Ph3NiX1980•

I just did a Kraken + king of the air game with the shitty Montecuccoli. So there’s still hope for Italian cruisers I guess. Don’t know about higher tier once, didn’t play them yet.

3
shengharFleet of Fog•

I legit can't remember the last time I saw a clear sky achieve pop.

2
tecknight•

The day the directives are over. It’s garage sale time. Agreed, absolute shit. Games with 40+ hits with SAP and only around 4K damage. It’s ridiculous!

3
KronosOneWeebs are people too•

That basically means you are not aiming correctly with SAP frankly.

7
Not_DaijoubuI like loliboats•

Yeah. I think buffed bounce angles would be nice, but my damage to hit ratio is something like 1k:2 shells. 4k: 40 is waaay too low to be solely attributed to RNG bounces.

SAP as a concept is perfectly fine, and the reload is okay too. I just wish the shells were more consistent (bouncing all shells that hit off of DDs and broadside CLs, why and how). And turrets can use a bit more WD40 considering they need to wiggle a lot to stay alive.

2
secretasianman2265•

Buffed angles and a higher reload speed would be nice. I have the Zara and a 20 second reload on the 203s at tier 7 is painful

1
type_EI need to get outta here soon•

I wan to see Italian cruisers be called the lowest point in WG history when the game closes in the future.

1
freki_frekrssonMy goal is all of the DAKKA•

Agree. I only got Montecuoli, but that thing goes after the patch. I am getting 4k per salvo at anything that is not perfectly angled. It's ridiculous!

1
oxMuadibxo•

I'm glad I wasn't lucky enough to get one

2
TenguBladeNoots internally•

Found u/MattttChris’s alt.

2
type_EI need to get outta here soon•

To be serious, this account has way too much karma to be MattttChris’ alt, if anything it would be the other way around.

3
MattttChrisCertified Ouiaboo•

Wow, I got a positive word from someone I dont know :D.

Thank you or making my day friend :DDD

1
MattttChrisCertified Ouiaboo•

Tengu, I was wrong about French DDs totally. on paper the stats months ago made them look very meh, in practice pretty good. Now time for you to admit you were wrong about kremlin

But to be real, I dont have an alt, I dont care enough

But Italian CAs are kinda meh, the SAP should've always behaved like HE with no ire chance. More alpha and pen for no DOTs. But for some reason, they have bounce angles....

0
awesomemanswag•

I have the montecucktortellini-but yeah the smoke feels like a "fuck this shit I'm out" button. If it lasted 20 (or even 30) seconds it could be that for the entire team, but right now it feels selfish.

2
Slipslime4x4 is my headcanon•

Also Venezia is still weird in terms of design choices, nobody built 5 turret cruisers except the Japanese and it should be better armored based on Zara.

1
Hiking_Quandry•

The USN’s Brooklyn class of light cruisers had 5 main battery turrets (in game: Boise and Helena)

1
Slipslime4x4 is my headcanon•

Oh huh I forgot about those

1
GrayFoxCZ"Players are players, plans are words, and words are wind."•

Its decently armored - 40mm decapping belt and 100+mm main belt (I think 120?)

1
Slipslime4x4 is my headcanon•

I meant in terms of national flavor. Zara was the most heavily armored heavy cruiser until Des Moines was built and had very high velocity guns, the highest of that caliber iirc. The TX should reflect this.

5
GrayFoxCZ"Players are players, plans are words, and words are wind."•

And Venezia retains that - combined thickness is IIRC larger than 150mm DM has.

3
Son_Of_The_Empiretwitch.tv/Kingpin6100•

Venezia has a 40mm external belt and an angled internal 165mm belt

2
DeltaV112•

It is 40mm+165mm. But functionally it is basically 165mm, maybe effectively 170mm. Thin plates do shit to actually help prevent armor penetration.

1
GrayFoxCZ"Players are players, plans are words, and words are wind."•

40mm is enough to shatter Yamato shells and arm 203mm shells - if it counts as spaced bulge french have, you have partial broadside immunity to 8" and smaller shells.

Even if it was the case and 40mm did nothing, you still are better armored than DM as 165mm alone is enough against mino or wooster 6" shells at longer distances.

1
DeltaV112•

If you look at the gap in the armor model, it is way too thin to let a shell arm before it reaches the inner plate. And that 165mm would also ricochet Yamato shells, so there's no point to it. It doesn't work at all like French armor, because the French have a thick outer plate, meaning it greatly reduces velocities and means the shell explodes before it reaches the citadel. A thin outer plate doesn't meaningfully reduce velocity and therefore doesn't prevent damage.

165mm isn't a huge diff from 152mm so ultimately Venezia isn't that much better than DM. Slightly but not enough that it will impact the ship's vulnerability to guns that can regularly AP pen it.

1
ValkyrWarframeNow Certified Italian Cruiser Player•

I thought the same about the French DDs

omegalul

1†
DD-AminSEArefugee•

He said thought, as if it's past tense. Then he says he's changed his mind as he learned about them.

A person can't change? Omegalul.

8
SynpaxEnterprise•

It's hard to have a conversation with people who communicate in memes.

0
ValkyrWarframeNow Certified Italian Cruiser Player•

The fact that thought even sprouted from his mind is a problem already. Sure minds change, but it only took a line that has 1 single weakness and insane strengths to make people actually think the French DDs aren’t dead on arrival (and that one weakness is negated in CW which makes Kleber spam even worse than Henri spam).

-4
DD-AminSEArefugee•

You've never ever been wrong about something initially? Not one single time in your life? Once? At all?

You must have a nobel peace price or something by now surely.

6
ValkyrWarframeNow Certified Italian Cruiser Player•

No, I really haven’t when it came to WoWS but when it comes to real life that comes with growing up.

When I’m not sure about something I withhold making judgements or calls out loud, evidently most people in this game do not.

-6
Aerroonyoutube.com/aerroon•

But Genova is perfection!!!

1
ThasoronOne-Way Submarine•

A perfect turd, I agree :)

1
Helstrem•

SAP is more than adequate to punch holes in 32mm plating, which most BBs are covered in. Russian and German BBs (and Hood) are a little more annoying, but if you think you can only damage the superstructures of BBs no wonder you think they suck.

1
AttentionOnDeck41•

They are shit, but since they gave me free permacamo for t6 and t7, I’ll get them when I can and get a feel for them.

1
knobber_jobbler•

I've it played the tier V ship and it would be borderline acceptable if the reload wasn't 14 minutes and the torpedoes had some kind of meaningful speed. It does seem very poorly balanced.

1
KadeshiSwarmer•

Oh boy another Italian cruisers are bad. Is it just me or lots of these opinions aren’t backed up by factual evidence rather someone complaining that so on and so forth is bad/trash/dogshit without evening learning to play it? Tbh my experience with Italians have been wonderful. I got the 5,6,7 and easily broke 100k damage most games. You just have to pick the right targets are you’ll be rewarded. Their reload speed is bad yes but I don’t find it to be an issue.

1
DevastatorCenturion•

I have the T5 italian cruiser and I find that it's better for hunting equal or higher CLs and DDs with SAP and CAs with AP. If I use it for anything else it goes wrong and I fail miserably.

​

​

Frankly I think you haven't found what the role of your particular cruiser is and are trying to project your inability to find its niche onto the line as a whole.

1