By the way, when you reported my comment did you realize I not only moderate this subreddit, I created it?
reddit.com/r/Favors/comments/di115/request_au...Posted Oct 21, 2010, 1:55 PM UTC
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reddit.com
I love how everyone is on the side of trolls who showed up to a conversation days or weeks after it occured for the express purpose of attempting to point out I don't know how to do my fucking job.
Seriously. There was a kid looking for audio restoration on his dead grandmother's last testimony before God and friends and I spent four hours doing it. Then the next day, some asshole shows up and says "you obviously don't know what you're doing or your room wouldn't look like that. I tell him I sure as fuck do ( what would you all do, by the way? Take whatever you do for your livelihood and pretend an ignorant punter showed up and said "you don't have a clue, I do" and used as evidence of his claim assertions that demonstrably prove he doesn't. What would YOU do?) and he goes off butthurt. A full fucking month later, another asshole shows up and instead of raising new objections simply repeats the assertions of the first guy as if they hadn't been soundly, vehemntly repudiated.
But I'm the bad guy here.
So. Pretend I walk up to you, take the one thing you do best and say out of the blue "you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I do. Now let me condescend to you by demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that I don't.
What do you do?
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I say, keep being the fucking baller you are.
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I'm certainly not on the side of the trolls. I think they were damned rude to you. But I think that, given your expertise, you have a responsibility to educate with a cool head. Even when someone is baiting you with ignorant hogwash. If you do that consistently, you're not just a contributor, you're a leader.
I spent four hours doing it
That is amazingly generous. Thank you!
What would YOU do?
Tell him, "Your arguments are really lame. You got them from bad sources that are trying to rip you off. I do this professionally, and if you want to know the difference, here's where you look. Also, please don't be rude; next time, the person you're being rude to might not be as thick-skinned as me."
But I'm the bad guy here.
No you're not. But you did overreact.
If you reacted to anger and aggression with sanguine calmness, you'd be my fucking hero. As it is, I only respect the hell out of your technical ability, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for spending your time cleaning up the audio for the first guy.
There's nothing cooler than watching someone who knows their shit calmly explain to someone ignorant which way the wind blows. I know you've got the skills to do it.
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Tell him, "Your arguments are really lame. You got them from bad sources that are trying to rip you off.
No you wouldn't. You'd compare them to a puppy pissing on a rug.
That is amazingly generous. Thank you!
Eat shit. Before, you couldn't even be bothered to figure out if maybe I had a reason for acting the way I did. Now, you're sucking my cock as if you hadn't suggested I can't differentiate between people who post a month apart.
No you're not. But you did overreact.
Fuck you. I delivered each of them two annihilating beat-downs. They were designed to shut them the fuck up and end all discussion on the matter and they accomplished precisely what I intended them to do. Had I reacted the way you asked, I'd be right where I am now - in a slap fight with somebody who thinks nothing of comparing a person to a dog pissing on a rug.
If you reacted to anger and aggression with sanguine calmness, you'd be my fucking hero.
The fuck you would. If I reacted to anger and aggression with sanguine calmness, you'd have to find somewhere else to white knight.
There's nothing cooler than watching someone who knows their shit calmly explain to someone ignorant which way the wind blows. I know you've got the skills to do it.
Hot damn, you're right. I really can do this calmly and competently! It's almost as if I know what I'm talking about! And have had to defend my expertise so often that I've already had this argument a dozen times before!
In fact, it's almost as if I've gone through this whole fucking exchange so many times that I have the ability to discern which people are worth talking things over with, and which ones just need to be silenced so I can move on!
But yeah- I don't expect you to give me the benefit of the doubt on that. It might interfere with your ability to condescendingly scold me in bold type.
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No good deed goes unpunished.
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You're not the bad guy here, you're just the flamer. Flaming/calm is arguably perpendicular to good/bad.
The same effing thing that is getting your goat drove half of academia away from USENET and is currently eroding Wikipedia's incredible base of experts -- social media enable access, and access implies lots of pettiness and ugliness. Joe Sixpack can call a Nobel prizewinner ignorant or foolish, and often does -- because after all, Joe doesn't even know who Nobelist is, let alone understand the things he's bitching about. The problem is that Nobelist can't even really defend himself without coming off like an asshole - either he rears back and points out that he's a Nobelist, in which case he's tooting his own horn, or he spends hours and hours gently pointing the error of Joe's ways, in which case he's wasting time (this is, after all, Joe Sixpack). Or he flames Joe with all six barrels, and burns away a little bit of his credibility.
Er, it's endemic to social media and it's not going away. Flaming back won't help make your life any better, and it won't even ruin the guy's day most of the time -- the only people whose feelings you're going to really hurt are the rare ones who are pissing you off by accident instead of on purpose. Better to downvote and move on.
But, er, have a nice day!
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You're not the bad guy here, you're just the flamer. Flaming/calm is arguably perpendicular to good/bad.
Really. The "flamer." Well, I feel better then.
The same effing thing that is getting your goat drove half of academia away from USENET and is currently eroding Wikipedia's incredible base of experts -- social media enable access, and access implies lots of pettiness and ugliness.
Your viewpoint is narrow. The same "effing thing" is what has led to the rise of George W. Bush, Sarah Palin and Christine O'Donnell - we have created a culture in which one side need not be correct, wise or polite to score points. One does not, however, preserve any credibility by responding to these people calmly. The only approach with any hope of success is to irrevocably destroy any credibility your opponent may have so that the majority of observers join you in mocking. Yeah, there will always be fuckwits who think "you're too mean to that nice little Sarah Palin" but you lost them long ago.
Er, it's endemic to social media and it's not going away.
You say this as if it's somehow new to me, as if I haven't had this discussion a thousand times, as if this is a revelation of some sort.
the only people whose feelings you're going to really hurt are the rare ones who are pissing you off by accident instead of on purpose.
There is a very fine choreography here that you have missed. It goes like this.
- Idiot says something stupid and insulting
1a) I say something pointing the idiocy of the idiot back to himself, giving him room to revise his statement and run.
Usually, that either moves the discussion in a useful direction or ends it completely. If not,
2a) Idiot gets both barrels.
"Both Barrels" has the effect of silencing all debate almost without exception.
Better to downvote and move on.
I lost this one the minute a concern troll showed up and scolded me for something I didn't actually do.
The choices are as follows:
A. Downvote and move on, and see everything you've said downvoted and attacked by people who can't read
B. Downvote and engage the opponent reasonably, in which case you'll spend the rest of the day at it
C. Two mutherfucking hits and out, in which case you're done.
I coulda clubbed that concern troll hard enough that he would have run away forever. I didn't. And I didn't to demonstrate a point for the next time this happens -
If you don't give 'em a double-tap, they'll thrash around until they're out of blood. But no matter what you do, some jackass somewhere is going to accuse you of animal cruelty.
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Attacking your opponent makes you feel good, and can get a nice attaboy from your friends (depending on who they are), but it will not actually convince anyone -- only make them retreat more firmly behind a shell made of "gee, that guy is just an asshole".
The rise of people like Palin is a different thing than the point I was making. My point is that social media, by enabling direct contact with people, forces you into direct contact with people. Misinformation and stupidity are not new; being able to observe and combat them directly on social media scales is.
If your goal is to make people shut up and go away, then congrats, you have honed that skill and you are doing great at it. But I think you will find it does things like create enemies where you had none. The occasional weirdo might even get pissed off enough to stalk you IRL. Such is the life of a flamer. Enjoy it, if that is what excites you.
All the best.
Edit: I apologize, I had not entirely digested your post before starting this reply. One wonders exactly what you get out of posting? Is it just a game for accumulating karma? If so, why not try to post less controversial things? If not, why do you care if you get downvoted by some fraction of readers? I probably shouldn't bother to ask, because I'm likely to just get some more vitriol back and then you'll get your wish (of sending me away). But it seems to me you tend to flame all over everyone, not just idiots. If you don't like being intellectually challenged, why bother posting to Reddit at all?
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Haters gonna hate. That sounds crass and it sounds thoughtless, but it's the goddamn truth. If you show a non-expert the same respect you would show an expert, you will have reinforced that non-expert's notion that he's an expert... and you will have helped to convince casual observers of the same. By according respect to disrespectful people you excuse and encourage their behavior. This is exactly what happened with Sarah Palin. Your problem is that you lack the comprehension to see the similarities.
My goal is to make people shut up and go away. I have honed that skill for decades and I do not practice it lightly. Saying "I think you will find" does nothing more than presume you know more about dealing with trolls than I do, which you have done absolutely nothing to demonstrate. The guy who stalked me?
...he was someone I acted reasonably towards.
Bugger off.
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Well I could have gone without seeing that. kleinbl00 is one of three people I'd added to my 'friends' list (flossdaily and subtextual being the others) because his comments were always insightful, witty, and helpful, without fail. But boy, he's being quite a dick in that thread. :/
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You know what? Suck a nut. You didn't read the thread, you have no idea what the fuck is going on, and I can really do without you "defending" me.
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You know what? Suck a nut. You didn't read the thread, you have no idea what the fuck is going on, and I can really do without you "defending" me.
Was that necessary?
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I read the whole thread. The one thing I didn't notice is that there was a one-day disparity between the original request and the first guy who showed up. I thought the guy was questioning you before you had fulfilled the request, not after. That makes it more likely the dude's a troll, but that also gives you less reason to respond to the guy in the first place really. It's already done and your work can stand on its own.
I understand your frustration with the people/trolls questioning your qualifications, but when you start levying insults and accusations at distanced observers in a bestof thread, you may be taking it too far.
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I've no way of knowing the incident to which you refer
However, as moderator, guess you'll have to don your Solomon hat when someone reports you. If you can't, or aren't prepared to, then do you believe you should be posting in a subreddit for which you're moderator ?
And I don't think the fact you created the subreddit is relevant - unless you've mentioned it in order to to intimidate or tout your supposed 'authority'. What are your feelings on that ?
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Clock on the subject and then look at all the posts, you can see the incident.
Not that I recommend that, particularly, but it does look like the OP is on the side of the angels, more or less.
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the OP is on the side of the angels
Sure, but he's attacking people's ignorant questions like a hard-ass.
Rather than responding to their ignorant questions with patience, and trying to teach them the difference.
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This reminds me of the kid in r/food who got raged at by some guy because he used sub-par ingredients for a burger. As obvious as the knowledge may seem, people need to realize that it's not so obvious for everyone else and insults won't help your point.
Also, by applauding comments like that, you basically set the standard for small communities that this is what's considered the norm. That it's okay to throw personal attacks because there is some useful info in there somewhere.
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In his mind, I meant...
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What the he'll is this? I don't understand what the duck you're saying.
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Sorry, I'm quacking under the pressure.
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The wider context of the argument is a fun read.
Look, mutherfucker - that room has been calibrated. By someone who used to bill out at $220 an hour calibrating rooms - me
I hear it in Samuels voice.
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And I can see an idiot who pushes gold-plated monster cables making the exact same argument.
To someone who doesn't know the difference, this guy looks like he spent $10k of his dad's money on a wanna-be studio, and now he's yelling at everyone who has the audacity to doubt that he's god.
Turns out, he has the credentials. That's awesome for him. But does he really have to flame everyone who comes close?
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Right. Except "someone who doesn't know the difference" can either assume I know what I'm doing, or can assume I don't know what I'm doing.
Amazing how much better off we all are when we assume the former rather than the latter, because then we don't have to spend the next day and a half eating our words when it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that our initial, uncharitable assumptions were wholly and completely wrong.
You may have noticed an awful lot of orangereds from me lately. This is due to the fact that I'm no longer having to communicate with you via iPhone, which means every single hand-wringing, wrist-to-forehead post you have addressed to me in the past day is now going to be answered.
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What a tool.
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Summary: Moderator takes trollbait. Ends up waggling his mod-penis. In my experience as a mod, there is no quicker way to lose the confidence of the userbase than to flout power in your personal arguments.
I can understand a bit why such an act comes forth, so whatever. But really it's better to ignore the report and let the other mods handle it. Chances are they are friends, and they'll let you slip. It's still unethical in a different way, but it's better than flexing muscle and users don't get so upset.
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Summary: Person doing his thing does his thing. Two different trolls on two different occasions decide to be trolls. Person kicks their mutherfucking teeth in to discourage other trolls from wasting their time, gets submitted to bestof, and is concern-trolled by someone wringing their hands about what a meanie I am.
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If you recall, I said I understand why you said what you said, but it wasn't the best approach to the situation.
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I think people are misunderstanding why this is so funny. It's not because of the argument at all, it's because the kid reported kleinbl00's comment to kleinbl00 as some last-ditch resort to win the argument. kleinbl00 wasn't trying to flout his power by mentioning this, he was merely pointing out that what the kid had done was pretty silly.
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Why are people mad about this? I find it fucking hilarious.
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try ?context=2
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Now, I'm no fan of how specifically kleinbl00 acted here, but I think he just needs some tempering... Because I think anyone who has any interest in the field has a lot to learn from him, and I personally really appreciate anyone who's willing to spend their time to help anyone else out.
So, please don't call him a jerk, tool, douche, dick, arrogant fuck, as y'all are doing.
If he learns that you attract more bees with sugar than with vinegar, we're all better off, because the guy sounds super-knowledgeable and willing to help.
Calling him names isn't going to help that at all.
Constructive criticism is what we should all be shooting for. Abusive language is wrong, even if you're using it to criticize someone for abusive language.
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If you've been around reddit a while, you'd know that kleinbl00 provides a fuckton of "sugar" for everybody.
Nice people don't need to temper themselves when dealing with assholes, that's how the assholes win.
Assholes need to be called out for being assholes so they stop BEING assholes.
(Why I'm even entering in this discussion with someone who's determined to make his misguided point on multiple threads is beyond me.)
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If you've been around reddit a while, you'd know that kleinbl00 provides a fuckton of "sugar" for everybody.
This ain't my first account. I've never seen kleinbl00 before, to my knowledge. We must not land in the same sub-reddits. I only saw this because of the r/bestof.
Nice people don't need to temper themselves when dealing with assholes, that's how the assholes win.
I disagree with your analysis, and your conclusion. When nice people become assholes, because someone questioned their authority - even if rudely, everyone loses.
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No, if nice people behave abruptly and directly with assholes, and assholes change their behavior accordingly, and everyone goes back to being nice, everyone wins.
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The assholes don't change their behavior. That's the problem. Responding positively or negatively, your chances of changing their behavior are close to 0. Responding with anger just lowers the signal-to-noise ratio and fills the place with angry yelling.
Picture your favorite politician responding, "STFU n00b!" Not a pretty picture, is it?
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You have yet to address the lengthy discussion I granted you on this subject. I presume this is because you feel my comments are worthy of lengthy deliberation, not because you are incapable of mounting a legitimate defense and not because you lack the integrity to admit your errors.
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Do you antagonize people who are trying to be nice to you in real life, too?
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You've now had no less than eight exchanges with me in the course of a day. While it's entirely possible you've never run across me before, at the very minimum - the absolute basest minimum - you owe me the common courtesy of clicking on my username.
Had you done so, you would have noticed that I have six embarassing digits of comment karma, one point shy of 35,000 link karma, and one of those gawd-awful trophy chests that you have to click "more" on to see the full pathetic extent. I do not say this out of pride, I do this to point out that if you haven't run across my name before, you're likely in the minority. If nothing else, my participation in this community is noteworthy.
Had you decided to dig into things a little more, you might have searched for my name. you likely would have found some interesting posts - some thought provoking, some heartwarming, some far more vitriolic than your delicate sensibilities can likely handle. There's even an off-chance that if you'd read what started this whole fracas rather than just asking "Did you even realize the person you were speaking to had just jumped in to the conversation?" you might have even noticed that I created one of the diminishingly few subreddits devoted wholly and entirely to altruism - one with nearly 10,000 subscribers.
Had you done any of these things, you could have spoken about this situation in something other than vague platitudes and generalities. But that would not have aligned with your worldview, so if you did any of these things, you certainly didn't let them inform your behavior.
And for someone demanding I confer utmost respect to even the most basest of trolls, I find that behavior scornfully hypocritical.
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[deleted]
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When I get a puppy and he pees on the floor, I don't yell at him.
Do you want his behavior to change, or do you want to vent?
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[deleted]
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It's a parable. A very terrible parable.
Calling someone a dick is a sure way to make sure they won't listen to you, they won't change.
Here's another terrible parable:
When someone adds no value, and is a dick, you try to get them to leave.
When someone adds a ton of value, but then punches one of your house guests because he scoffed at a bold assertion, you try to get him to calm down.
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So call me a dick.
To my face.
And then tell me why they can calmly tell the world I don't know shit, but when I demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the opposite is true I'm the dick.
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It's like a battle royale between the most arrogant cocks on reddit.
Whoever wins, we lose.
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oh cool snarky audiophiles whining at each other
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Why is this inane in-fighting bestofed?
Bestof used to be awesome. Now its another one I'm going to have to avoid. Along with frontpage, pics, iama, funny and askreddit.
Brilliant.
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Typical Reddit <----|------------------------------------> BESTOF
Note: -5 bars for forgetting the context tag. Bad form.
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You are, without a doubt, the most tedious novelty account I have ever encountered.
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The scale must not falter, nor be improperly calibrated.
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Doesn't make him any less of a jerk.
Agreed. This isn't a bestof unless we're showing off the largest douchebags of reddit.
What an arrogant fuck. There is a /worstof for stuff like this.