Joe Thornton suspended 2 games
stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/morni...Posted Nov 5, 2010, 8:07 PM UTC
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stltoday.com
Well, that's some bullshit.
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If you skate with your head down every hit delivered by a decent sized hockey player is a blindside hit to the head. I think it was pretty obvious Thornton did not lay the check with an intent to injure. The NHL does have to maintain that the puck carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up and passers have the responsibility to not lead a pass right into a defender's awaiting shoulder.
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I'm not really sure why it becomes ok to break the rules because someone has their head down. Should a slash or trip or hook also not count if a guy has his head down?
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From the NHL rulebook:
A lateral or blind side hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principle point of contact is not permitted.
The problem I see with this is that even the rule book does not adequately define what a "blind-side hit" is. My point was that because the NHL made a very huge change to the rulebook and only felt the need to spend one sentence explaining what they were talking about, any hit delivered to a player with his head down is technically a "blind-side hit." The video the NHL demoed prior to the season did not address the kind of hit like the one Thornton threw. It showed that the rule applied almost exclusively to hits thrown laterally or from behind the player, rather than ones that come from in front of the puck carrier. The Thornton check is a dangerous, rough hit but the NHL explicitly stated that they were not outlawing all hits to the head (as the Mayo Clinic suggested) but ones thrown from the "blind-side."
My real problem with this is how vague the NHL has been about what is a legal hit to the head and what is an illegal hit to the head. If it really put the health of hockey players first the rule would simply state: "A hit to an opponent where the head is targeted and/or the principle contact point is not permitted." I like big hits, but I'd strongly support that rule.
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this wasn't a blindside hit, it was a lateral hit. Thornton was skating in a direction perpendicular to Perron. While Thornton was technically in front of him in a north-south placement, he was not in front of him in an east-west placement meaning he had to move laterally. If the rule was changed to fit your meaning, it wouldn't change this ruling as the head was still the principle point of contact. He only grazed the shoulder, a majority of this contact was head.
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That's kind of my point. It's useless to argue back and forth over lateral skating and hitting from the blindside. The contact is made to the head and that's what should be penalized, regardless of how you hit someone. I think the NHL has an odd rule. It's the hit to the head that's dangerous, regardless of if it comes laterally or from the "blind-side."
Edit: You're absolutely right. I just watched the NHL rule change video again and Thornton's hit is clearly illegal as it's delivered laterally with principle contact being made with the head. Thornton is a big guy but the NHL makes clear it's his responsibility to avoid making contact with Perron's head. Props and apologies to you.
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No rule would have been broken if he had his head up. If you slash a guy with his head up or down, it's still slashing.
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if you hit a guy in the head with a lateral check its still a penalty if his head is up or down
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Yeah head down that's it.
Has nothing to do with guys serving penalties looking for the opportunity to level someone blindly when they are released from the shame box.
Toews is one of the most alert guys on ice and he took a blind one last year as well.
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Wait. So your theory is that Willie Mitchell took a penalty just so he could level Toews right as he got out of the box?
Flawless.
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yeah that's exactly what I said didn't I?! Are you really that stupid Mr.Flawless?
I said guys look for the opportunity when time is served, pretty clear.
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It could be taken either way.
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I want the league to protect players and having suffered a few concussions myself playing hockey (one by skating like a dumbass with my head down and the other the victim of a malicious check from behind) I understand that you need to be very harsh with players that lay vicious checks to the head. On the other hand, some responsibility in the game has to lay on the shoulders of offensive players to not make suicide passes and to make sure they are aware of everything going on on the ice (and the guy in the penalty box is "on the ice").
The player looking for the pass in Thornton's situation (and the situation was very similar to Toews' last year) was not aware of the player coming out of the box and has his eyes glued behind him looking for a pass. I think even worse, his teammate (in Toews' case too) makes an obviously horrific pass that puts his guy right into the path of a big opposing player.
Toews' has great hockey sense but he is a young player with limited NHL experience and that shows up in times like these. There's a reason it's your younger guys that are generally on the receiving end of hits like these.
I think the Thornton hit, as opposed to the Doan hit, is not a blindside hit to the head as was defined by the league prior to the season. I was under the assumption that it had to do with body positioning and that if you were squared up and in front of the player (as opposed to coming from behind or the side) the hit is legal. However, it seems like the NHL is calling it based on whether the player being checked is "aware" that the check is coming. That's not fair for defenders that play the game at an elite level and work to get in great position and it caters too much to inexperienced players that have a great deal of talent and confidence but not enough respect for the level NHL hockey is played at.
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He was damn near looking behind himself. Good hit.
/biased
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Glad to see the consistency with suspensions. I mean, Doan does the same thing with no game misconduct or 5 minute major and gets 3 games? Way to go NHL. Way to go.
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differences: doan checked a player that didn't have the puck, and finished his check. Thornton pulled up and just braced for impact.
In any case, the doan suspension was terrible. The real problem is that the NHL keeps alternating between "setting an example" and "letting it slide." So many players have gotten away with dirty hits this year. The best example you can set is by staying consistent.
how has colin campbell not been fired yet? Does his performance ever get reviewed?
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I think the big thing is that Doan's hit happened less than a second after Sexton had passed the puck. When you're on skates, rushing down the ice, it's hard to stop from hitting someone in a single second. There were complaints that Doan blindsided Sexton, but if you watch replays, Doan was actually in front of Sexton when he started (and finished) the hit. Doan is a big guy who could have injured him easily if that was his intent.
But I fully agree with what you're saying about consistency. If there's going to be punishment, either punish all players and punish none. Picking and choosing players to make an example from is not the way to do it. I think Campbell is definitely in need of some sort of performance review!
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God that is ridiculous. Keep pussifying the NHL, please.
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I'm not sure how removing Thornton makes the league more "pussy." I'd say the opposite is true.
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clean hit, bad call.
the officials should never have penalized him with a major and a game.
the league had to look into it because of the call.
even worse, Perron's d-man fed him the pass, unaware that the penalty was ending.
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I didn't expect that at all. The NHL seems to dislike tall players hitting shorter players.
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That's it. I'm starting a team of all midgets. Hip checks only against them the entire time. Any hit to the head results in suspension.
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Montreal is wayyyy ahead of you
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Honestly, it's getting out of hand. The tough, make-or-break league I once loved is turning into a game designed for whiny kids and hockey moms. Tragic.
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Wheel of suspensions turn turn turn, tell us the punishment he should earn.
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What a miserable excuse for protecting the players. Rather than discourage the bad play, and making it clear that players are responsible to look where the fuck they're going you suspend the guy doing his fucking job.
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I hate admitting it, but for once you're right.
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Well judging from all the comments on this story I am clearly interested in watching a completely different NHL than most people are. I'm glad he was suspended and think the league should be doing a lot more to get rid of the dirty play in the league.
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What everyone here is missing and not understanding is that the NHL is making the checker (Thorton in this case) responsible for the check, not the receiver. Any check to the head is a foul, it doesn't matter how it happened. Excuses like "he was looking for a pass" don't matter, if the receiver is going to get hit in the head, the checker needs to pull up, plain and simple.
Please don't downvote me because you don't like the rule. I didn't make the rule, I'm just explaining it for those who don't understand.
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That's just silly to say any check to the head is a foul. I could dive headfirst into someones foot, and it would be my fault completely. That's not what happened here, but saying "any time the head gets hit there was wrongdoing on the hitter" is a misinterpretation of the rule.
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The point is, the onus to make the check safe is on the checker, not the checkee. "He wasn't looking" or "He had his head down" aren't valid excuses, if the checker realizes he is going to make a hit to the head, he has to adjust (or not make) the check.
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Not every check to the head is a foul, only lateral or back pressure checks to the head. This was clearly a lateral hit to the head though
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Yes, that is an important distinction. A legal hit to the head:
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I think they should get rid of this rule but the players have to use 1960s style shoulder pads. Concussions will be down, everyone can see big hits, and everyone is happy.
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how carcillo hasn't been suspended while thornton has is absolutely ludicrous.
I thought that the league is letting him play to punish the team.
not to take away from how poorly the rangers played yesterday, if the nhl and bettman want to be taken seriously about head shots and all that, they should put their fucking money where their mouths are.
A little different when he goes for a check and your guy pretty much falls into his elbow. This was intentional, that was not. It's not fair to compare the two.
i understand we're both working on our biases here, but fedotenko didn't fall into carcillo's elbow. he didn't duck, like the refs said. he was looking for the puck, and carcillo left the ice to land that hit.
that was a dirty hit, and a clear headshot.