Source
r/ValveIndex•
SLNC

I bought a Rift S last week, I ordered an Index today.

While I bought the Rift S, my dad decided to splurge on an Index. I thought the premium isn't worth it.

Today I tried it at his house and my god how wrong I was. It's so smooth and the tracking is so much better. The controllers! I honestly couldn't go back to the Oculus controllers after trying the Knuckles. I'm returning the Rift, I only would be constantly reminded how much better the Index experience is.

After using the Rift S, I was actually a bit disappointed and kinda lost faith in VR, but the Index, and especially the controllers, made me a believer.

Posted Dec 1, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

11960
SpongeKnock•

Buy cheap buy twice as they say lol! welcome aboard

49
hibrad2003•

Or also known as, Buy once, cry once.

22
CarrotSurvivorYT•

Buy once be broke for 6 months

11
BlueScreenJunky•

Buy cheap buy twice as they say lol!

Well, for electronics it could make sense to buy cheap and buy twice. For example I find I end up with a better phone most of the time if I buy 400€ phones every two years rather than a 800€ phone every 4 years.

Similarly you could get a rift S now for 400€, and the Rift 2 in a few years (assuming it's also 400€), you'll still have spent significantly less than the 1050€ Index and you'll have a brand new hmd plus an old Rift S that you can sell or give to someone.

2
Neonridr•

I mean the Rift S is a solid machine, I wouldn't call it garbage or anything. I'm a CV1 owner and have had so many great experiences. That being said, it's time for me to upgrade to the Index. Rift controllers are actually quite nice. Finger tracking is nice and all, but only if devs are actually going to utilize it.

26
SLNCOP•

I mean the Rift S is a solid machine,

It is. I didn't mean to shit-talk it. It just didn't do it for me. Perhaps it's because of too high expectations, which weren't met.

21
Neonridr•

no-no, fair enough. I get you. I'm super excited, my Index just showed up today :D

1
spotexx•

yep im coming from a lenovo explorer and befor that it was the osvr headset. needless to say im excited

3
synthesis777•

That's a HUGE upgrade. I'm jealous!

1
ralkia•

Also coming from the CV1 here, I'd never consider buying a Rift S. It's simply just not an upgrade! 90hz to 80hz, OLED to LED, Okay outside-in tracking to tangibly worse inside-out tracking.

If I didn't buy my index, I'd still have my CV1. I wouldn't spend another $400 merely for increased res.

2
Anji_Norris•

With all of what I have read, Valve Index is the high end to this generation 1.0 regarding VR. I just ordered mine.

Hope all other VR companies get this as an example to push forward.

10
Aobachi•

This is generation 2.0. 1.0 was rift and vive.

12
zweihanderOPOG•

Overall the Index is still gen 1. The Index controllers and 144Hz refresh rate are definitely gen 2 features, but eye tracking and much higher resolutions are needed for it to be fully gen 2.

1†
Tcarruth6•

The generation thing is up for grabs. I think index is 1.5 at best. You'd really need better FOV and some foveated rendering to claim 2.0. Index is step backwards in being wired and the blacks are terrible. The FOV is only fractionally higher than the OG vive with the 3mm gaskget. The clarity is excellent but then the glare is worse than CV1 and OG vive. For me 2.0 is something improved in every way from what i had a whole 3 years ago. The index is great but a whole generation different it isn't.

-3†
Seanm57•

Have you actually used an index? The blacks are amazingly good for LCD. You call them terrible so I suspect you’ve never used one. Blacks are better than Rift S by far. Before you ask, yes I just sold my Rift S to buy the index so I’ve had both.

13
smylekith1•

I was thinking the same thing. Switching from the rift s to index the blacks and colors got SO much better.

4
xp3000•

As an index owner, the blacks the worst part of the display, coming from the OG Vive. Brightness and colors are also a downgrade.

A true 2.0 headset needs RGB OLED. LCD has too many huge downsides.

3
Tcarruth6•

Yes I'm lucky to have tried all the major hmds. I'm comparing the index to og vive and cv1 in terms of blacks.

2
ThorntonArt•

I think they are referring to OLED of original Rift/Vive. It's all about scenery. Some games, the blacks really are lacking vs OLED. Alien Isolation comes to mind. There's also scenes where OLED color gamut can really bring it to life.

For most of my uses, I'd take the Index clarity and 120Hz any day though. Definitely agree the color range and black levels are good for an LCD. I was expecting to be disappointed, but was pleasantly surprised.

2
ThorntonArt•

The generation thing is silly anyway. Unless released yearly and used to id the model. It’s too subjective.

Tech advances progressively. Sometimes incremental, sometimes dramatic, and sometimes it defines new categories.

I’d say I’ve never seen a group of tech enthusiasts discuss an integer so much, but there’s that mythical #3..

8
morbidexpression•

Cringe. as if anybody but tedious dullards give a damn about arbitrary marketing gibberish like "generation"

7
Tcarruth6•

You're slaggng people off on reddit, haha! Turns out there are worse things than being a tedious dullard!!

-1†
ralkia•

Glare is worse than OG vive? In what world? lol

0
Tcarruth6•

God Ray's are way better on the index. Glare is waaay worse tho.

1
aoaaron•

Have you used an index? The glare is bad

1
VindicatorZ•

I must be one of the few who really loves the ergonomics of the Touch controllers over the Index. On top of having way better analog sticks, they just feel so light and nice in the hand. Index controllers feel like big bananas in my hand. Yes they have finger tracking, but in actual gameplay, eh, haven't found a big use for it.

Index is the best headset though.

6
MrBob161•

Naw, I have an OG Vive that I'm kind of sick of the SDE and am thinking about going to a Rift s instead of upgrading to an Index headset with controllers. It's not that I think the Rift S headset is better but it will be an upgrade overall on my Vive headset. Also I think the Touch Controllers look better than the index controllers too. Valve made some weird choices with the Index controller like putting that middle track pad is hardly ever used well and having the analog stick out of place. If I'm spending 750 to 1000 dollars on a vr set it has to be nearly perfect. Though my only issue with Oculus is I don't want to give Facebook any money.

1
BnanaRepublic•

I did this upgrade for the exact same reason. My Vive had been gathering dust for over a year and I suddenly got the urge to get back into VR, but the SDE and low resolution put me right off, not to mention those damn wands. I ordered an Index but got the Rift S to cover the 2 month delivery time of the Index and I ended up keeping it.

The screen is WAY better than the Vive and the controllers are years ahead of those awful wands. It's exactly what I wanted in an upgrade, so much so that I couldn't justify the price of the Index after using the S. I've had it for 6 months now and I still love it.

I have absolutely nothing against the Index. I'm sure it's a fantastic headset, but with the Rift S I got exactly what I wanted upgrading from the Vive: much higher resolution with almost no SDE and much better controllers.

2
MrBob161•

Neat. Do you play games in Steam VR or the Oculus Store? Since all my VR purchases are on Steam VR I'm curious if the Rift S holds up ok because I've heard there are performance issues at times running rift games on Steam VR.

2
BnanaRepublic•

I only use the Oculus store for the exclusives. Everything else is bought on Steam.

The headset has no problem running SteamVR games. Some of the games on Steam also offer native Oculus support. From my own experience, the Oculus SDK runs better than SteamVR, but that's down to SteamVR itself and not headset-specific.

3
ThorntonArt•

The controllers were my main motivation to order the kit as a learning dev. So far they've been really cool to work with.

Currently working on a true physics skeleton to use for character bodies. Looking at your hand as a skeleton with finger tracking has creeped everyone out haha.

5
TunaSushiRoll•

Good choice. I didn't even bother trying it. I'm not interested in 80hz, that'd be a step backwards.

Nice profile banner btw

4
NCHeavyHunter•

Everyone is talking about ordering an Index and I'm feeling left out... guess it's time lol

4
Broflake-Melter•

A lot of people tout the Index as "enthusiast only", and maybe it is. But it advances so may ascpects of VR it's difficult to imagine another hardware iteration that will be as big as a jump as it is. I give you that eye tracking/foveated rendering and wireless will both be huge, but unless they both happen in the next gen, it won't be as big as the Index is.

3
majstor76•

Is there any difference in tracking between S and Index in best case scenario for rift (hands infront)?

2
SLNCOP•

It felt more precise on the index, but that could have been due to the faster refresh rate of the display.

8
Atomic-Walrus•

I have an Index and a Quest, and I can confirm -- assuming the Quest tracking is roughly the same as the Rift S -- that the tracking is not quite as good. The Quest's controllers seem to either have lower quality IMUs, or worse software integration of the data. They're far more likely to experience overshoot (continuing past where you stop them before correcting) and exaggerated shaking from small vibrations and bumps, which makes them feel less stable than the Vive or Index controllers.

They obviously are also more likely to experience occlusion (by your body or each other), but I'm setting that aside because it's a known limitation of this type of tracking, and because I don't think the camera-based tracking has anything to do with the lower accuracy I'm describing.

It could be a deliberate choice to use lower-res IMU data for all I know... the battery life on the controllers is really impressive and running IMUs at lower rates might help with that.

4
foobar83•

I have CV1, Rift S, Quest and Valve Index (got this one 2 days ago).

Tracking is the same on all of them (that is to say precise, jitter and lag free). While one might technically be better in benchmarks, when you play games they are all the same. I don't perform better with any of them. The latest improvements in Rift S tracking remove any of the issues where the hands would stop moving up close to your face. It's the same, I play them extensively .. Index is nice but not worth the premium IMO unless you have a lot of money to burn.

4†
Seanm57•

I thought that too until I played the longbow in The Lab. On Rift S I could never pull the bow back enough and could not aim well. My hand always wanted to hit the Rift. On Index I can aim properly and can pull the bow back completely.

9
kageurufu•

Just like Linus (tech tips), my index handily beat my old high score on my first try, and by a good 20%. Between the tracking and visual upgrades it really gave me a bump up.

I wouldn't be surprised if other decent Pavlov players got better with the upgrade too

3
MagFreakingNeto•

I also did better on Beat Saber after switching to the Index

Not that you cannot do Expert+ on Rift S or Quest, you absolutely can

1
foobar83•

I don't pull past my ear give or take (as my arm starts straining) and that tracks fine on the Rift S, so I dunno what to tell you..

I'm sure experiences vary for everyone, but I'm a lot less inclined to say the Index is the revelation everyone makes it out to be. To me it's like going from a 2060 super to a 2080ti .. the 2060 is more than most need, but you can splurge on the 2080ti if you need to have the best of the best

-1†
DOOManiac•

In tracking? No.

In general? You get an extra $650 in your wallet.

2†
MaalikNethril•

Yes, it's a lot more reliable

1
Nesyaj0•

I got my index around June or whenever the sscond wave was able to be purchased.

Just last week I went to a friends house who decided to get PSVR and Jesus Christ that was almost unplayable to me and made me appreciate my index so much more.

2
Its_Ya_Boi_Ya_Boi•

I'm pretty sure it's obvious but make sure you got an rtx 2000 series or better gpu and decent cpu/other components to run the index

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
Haribyte•

to me, being a RIft S and Index owner the controller for the Index are way better. No problems with them so far.

1
csb249•

Just bought a rift S for half life because I just can't warrant an index for what I'm currently interested in for VR, and also my current PC until the 3000 series wouldn't be able to take advantage of the refresh rate anyway. I'm a bit unimpressed, great controllers and tracking imo but bad audio and I feel like the view is too small. Got sick playing 30 minutes of Gorn and Lone Echo :/

2
MaalikNethril•

It does have lower fov than other hmds. People generally use headphones with the Rift S. What are the specs of your pc?

1
csb249•

I7 6700k and 1070 waiting on the 3080. If I knew the index wasn't like looking through goggles I think I'd return this and buy it. Maybe they all are. Yeh I need to see how my arctis 7s fit. Just another step but oh well.

1
MaalikNethril•

Ya, the Rift S is like wearing a scuba mask compared to the Index. Although it does depend on how much you can crank the fov up, but I feel that the smallest fov on the Index is about the same or bigger than Rift S. I'm not sure about how a 1070 would fare on the Index, I'd feel safe saying that it would work fine but you might have to turn down some stuff in certain games.

1
csb249•

Yep the constant view of the goggles is really hurting the experience. I don't remember paying attention to that ok the original Vive even.

1
zengrath•

This is why I waited and index was my first vr purchase. Other tech out there in all my research just had too many drawbacks that made it feel not ready yet but at same time wanted to invest and help vr as I'm a believer that vr is here to stay and has a strong future in gaming. I'm glad I waited. I been playing without a week missed since June 28th. Every family member I had try it loves it also. But even still no one else I know got vr set of their own yet. No one wants to buy a cheaper less quality headset and no one but me owns a pc that can handle index comortably or willing to spend 3k for a proper gaming PC plus index. That's still a problem right now. My bet is vr won't have wide spread adoption until 1 or 2 more generations and I think we are in a place now where we should be able to keep vr going until then.

2
MaalikNethril•

You don't need to spend 3k for a PC and Index unless you're factoring in peripherals. About $900-$1100 for a pc and another $1000 for the Index kit.

1