Check to maintain pin and Tie Up defender with rope?
My question is what would the maintain pin check on the round you intend to Tie Up a pinned target with rope be? Would you need to use a move action to get rope out, then take a -4 for having only one hand on the CMB+5 check, effectively making the bonus to maintain only +1? Or is a pin effect automatic without taking the negative for one hand manipulating a rope? What do you all think is the right or best interpretation? Version A or B of the third round in the example below. Am I doing this all correctly? I've looked at the flow charts and googled my heart out but haven't seen a specific answer about this aspect of the Tie Up pin effect.
First grappler round: grappler CMB vs. defender CMD to grapple. Success.
First defender round: grappler CMD vs. defender CMB to free. Fail.
Second grappler round: grappler CMB+5 vs. defender CMD to maintain grapple and give target pined condition. Success.
Second defender round: grappler CMD vs. defender CMB to free. Fail.
Third grappler round version A: grappler CMB+1 vs. defender CMD to maintain grapple and use pin effect Tie Up with rope (move action to get rope out, -4 to hold it with one hand while using Tie Up pin effect)
or
Third grappler round version B: grappler CMB+5 vs. defender CMD to maintain grapple and use pin effect Tie Up with rope (move action to get rope out, no -4 for one-handedness while using the Tie Up pin effect).
Thanks!
Posted Dec 22, 2019, 8:54 AM UTC
I would say it depends on how you describe your actions and the table GM. I know some GMs allow you to use other limbs other than your arms to pin someone and some require that you have the equipment feat to tie up someone (I have had this ruled against me).
I am in a situation where it is ruled against me. The reasoning is that I would need to have the rope in one hand before maintaining the pin to be able to use the Tie Up pin effect. Thereby giving the CMB to maintain the pin a -4 malus for the total of CMB +1 in the version B example.
Nowhere in any of the rules or flow charts do I see this to be the case, but I guess it's the will of the GM. Frustrating because other players who just go gung-ho on damage aren't nerfed just to be nerfed, and they can annihilate multiple enemies a turn without opening themselves up to negative conditions over multiple rounds to negate one medium-sized enemy.
I have had this argument with a newer kineticist player. Some of the rule interactions require a firm understanding of the rules and extensive research. Consider this a learning experience and try to come up with a way to avoid it in the future, such has wearing a coiled rope or at the higher levels buying gloves of storing. This is less about targeting you specifically and more about the GM trying to arbitrate the rules fairly from what they know. Grapple is a challenging rule to understand, so much that fans made those flow charts.
If you feel your GM was targeting you with a nerf not covered in the rules, talk with them. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, go to your VOs to get it resolved.
Alright, thanks for the help! :)