Gezinsbond rekent uit: kan een asielzoeker een huis kopen met kinderbijslag?
hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/gezinsbond-rekent-ui...
hln.bePosted Dec 29, 2019, 8:24 PM UTC
1847
hln.beSo yeah it is possible, still a dumb statement tbh .
2†
"Een erg onwaarschijnlijke situatie, maar theoretisch mogelijk"
That makes the statement Jambon made classical populism, because the audience surely wasn't given the impression that it was not really a possibility but just a "theoretical tought exercise".
2†
The claim was he heard of one such family.
1†
But he used that claim to support his argumentation against the policy of the payments of kindergeld. When you use such an example it can very easily be percieved as something that happens quite often.
1
Wel the payment of this happens often, in any case with children.
And its clear the amounts can go quite high, thats was his point .
0
How is it possible that one fact check calls Jambon a liar spreading fake news, and another fact check says his claims are possible? Maybe it's time to fact check the fact checkers?
1†
another fact check
You're calling a tweet from Theo Francken another fact check?
14
Met dat bedrag kan je in ons land inderdaad een oud te renoveren appartement kopen of in sommige streken een klein te renoveren huis
You need to make extra costs to make it liveable, so this factcheck isn't realistic. They even say it:
“Een erg onwaarschijnlijke situatie, maar theoretisch mogelijk”, klinkt het.
5†
No, the "onwaarschijnlijke situatie" is about having 5 kids going to secondary education at the same time, not about the cost of the house. But if this information is known in other countries, that would be a HUGE pull factor for large families to try to get asylum specifically in Belgium, and then try to drag the procedure as long as possible from the start.
Funny how everyone was so quick to blindly trust the journalist of De Tijd in those 3 other topics, though.
5†
and then try to drag the procedure as long as possible from the start.
Because being an unrecognized refugee is so much fun and games that people are going to drag it out for a mere 106 euros a month per child?
Funny how everyone was so quick to blindly trust the journalist of De Tijd in those 3 other topics, though.
De Tijd factcheck literally said that they weren't checking absolute extremes like Francken is doing here, but that they were checking a pretty extreme yet still somewhat plausible scenario.
8
If I had 5 kids that's be a €530 netto raise per month compared to going to another country. Sign me the fuck up.
6†
No, the "onwaarschijnlijke situatie"
To be fair here, how improbable is it for your average asylum seeker from the Middle East or Africa, where having 5 children is more the norm than the exception, for this scenario to happen in real life? I am not saying there is anything wrong with having that many children, but people seem to project the Western standards when it comes to average offspring number to this case instead of looking at realistic numbers. This scenario really isn't all that unrealistic and I am pretty sure that it happens now and then.
Procedures taking over 2 years really aren't the exception either (unfortunately) and in the end this is should be about creating a level playing field between the different groups that are part of our poorest population.
Yes, Jambon should have chosen his words in a better way but these amounts of money, be it 30k or 80k, does provide the ticket to owning your own modest house or apartment as this provides a significant downpayment which many of our poorest people cannot afford.
I fully understand why people who don't have the savings and never will have the savings to afford a 10%-20% downpayment plus registration/notary fees (so closer to 30%) are angry about this. The people who are granted asylum have already been given bed, bath and bread so they are essentially getting the boost that so many other families could use in order to buy their own place.
The extreme case of 80k allows a family like that to do a downpayment of over 50% on the more than large enough place that they are buying if they choose their location wisely, which then means that even with a minimum wage job they can afford the loan on the other max 50%, which will amount to less than EUR 500 a month.
https://www.immoweb.be/nl/zoekertje/huis/te-koop/deurne/2100/id8485661 it really isn't all that hard to find a habitable place with 3+ bedrooms that isn't even located far from a big city center and doesn't need immediate renovation for around 150k.
6
To be fair here, how improbable is it for your average asylum seeker from the Middle East or Africa, where having 5 children is more the norm than the exception, for this scenario to happen in real life? I am not saying there is anything wrong with having that many children, but people seem to project the Western standards when it comes to average offspring number to this case instead of looking at realistic numbers. This scenario really isn't all that unrealistic and I am pretty sure that it happens now and then.
18% of asylum seekers are children, so that puts a hard limit to how often this happens.
And really, child benefits are a pittance compared to the leefloon adults get. We're getting off cheap, and all common concerns with asylum seekers (hard to integrate/employ, no education, war criminals, language problems,...) are less if we get children refugees.
0
and then try to drag the procedure as long as possible from the start.
INAL but this seems like a very risky strategy. What are you going to do, cast doubt on your own documentation?
And I don't know if you've ever talked to someone who has been to an asylum center, but those are not nice places. Cramped, moldy, old, cold... Those are not places you want your kids to grow up in. Let alone spend a third of their childhood in.
1
Yep, I worded it wrong, correction here.
1
then try to drag the procedure as long as possible from the start
This ignores that if ,you don't drag out the procedure, you also get that money, you just get it in monthly installments as intended.
That's actually something that gets ignored all the time. this money isn't some extra bonus on top. This is money that's legally theirs, that wasn't paid out at the intended moment because of procedural dealings.
Do you disagree, ok, then reform child allowance (which they're already doing if I'm not mistaken, so this is a lot of noise for pretty much nothing)
0
Yep, I worded it wrong, correction here.
2
Fuck off, legally theirs. People that haven't paid into the system shouldn't get anything from it.
2
Because the one fact check wasnt a fact check but a "we want this to be wrong so we will say it"
3
Maybe it is time to grab a calculator?
De Tijd said 32.000 euro for a family of 5 kids going through a 2 year procedure
So you have 2 numbers to play with to get into extreme cases: amount of kids (but there must be twins because that must be in secondary school) and how long the procedure is.
1
No asylum procedure ever lasted more than 2 years, has it? That was at least the assumption of the first fact fabricator.
0
And thats simply not true
2
How is it possible that elected ministers cant do math ? What does it say about you when you vote for somebody like that
-3
Hahahahahahaha. 4D-schaak van den Jambon.
Te gretig, links. Té gretig.
"Ge kunt met €xx.xxx gratis geld niet zomaar een huis kopen. FACT-CHECK." En er allemaal maar opspringen.
-19
Meh, ik ben zeker niet links en vindt die uitspraak ook ongepast.
Dit is eerder het verschil tussen correct en technically correct. Ja, in het meest extreme geval kunt ge misschien het goedkoopste huis betalen...
Klopt het dan? Sure, maar het is intellectueel oneerlijk want niemand denk aan een krot diep in Henegouwen bij het horen van "huis".
The core of the issue blijft natuurlijk wel: het zou in zijn geheel niet moeten kunnen, maar het is een vrij plat-populistisch manier om het aan te kaarten.
Edit: Wel frappant dat Rutte er harder invliegt dan Rzoszka. Zij doet er alles aan om haar eigen rechterflank af te stoten en is daar heel succesvol in.
22
Edit: Wel frappant dat Rutte er harder invliegt dan Rzoszka. Zij doet er alles aan om haar eigen rechterflank af te stoten en is daar heel succesvol in.
Rutten is just desperately trying to push her party to go into into a purple-green coalition asap, because if it doesn't happen and new elections come right away she'll have lost her party an additional 1/4 of their seats according to the polls, and her career will go down the drain.
12
She could have done that with a similar response to Rzoszka's ... I would have expected their responses to be reversed and the Green one to make the over the top statements (good on him for criticizing it in a more measured manner)
I'm also annoyed by Beke's response that extreme cases can't be excluded ... yes you can, you put a maximum on it by law, that's what lawmakers are supposed to do given that there would be majority support to limit benefits to refugees when the primary task is providing temporary refuge.
The centrist parties in Belgium are just so weak at the moment.
6
The outer right and left parties are pushing moderate parties to the center.
0
Edit: Wel frappant dat Rutte er harder invliegt dan Rzoszka. Zij doet er alles aan om haar eigen rechterflank af te stoten en is daar heel succesvol in.
Ze is gewoon duidelijk aan het maken dat VLD geen onderafdeling van NVA is. Het is dit of de partij opdoeken binnen een paar decennia.
1
Opdoeken mag voor mij. Als rechts-liberaal heb ik niets in die centrumpartij te zoeken en moet ik me helaas bij rechts-conservatisme neerleggen. K had VLD graag als liberaler alternatief voor NVA gezien dan wat ze nu zijn onder Rutte.
België heeft gewoon geen nood noch ruimte aan progressieve third way partijen, dat was Spirit en die heeft Sp.A al opgeslokt.
2
For spherical children in a vacuum.