r/BobsTavern•
kzero0

Cracked Top 200 NA after gaining over 1500+MMR (137 games) since the patch launched

High Effort Guide

Happy cow

Yay. Finally got my screenshot on Friday. Well the screenshot that got me in, this took so long to type out the bar keeps rising.

There’s already been some great posts from other freshly minted top 200, I’ll post some tips and personal stats instead.

General tips on how to improve:

Read the posts from the wiki, good stuff

Learn from other people but don’t blindly follow suit just because some top 13k player said so. This also includes picking heroes from tierlists. Every tierlist you see is biased towards how the person playing views that hero, there are a lot of hidden “footnotes” that you can’t see in a side by side picture. Just because Tirion or Deryl is #1 doesn’t mean any player can pilot him to a first place, I’ve seen people in my lobby play them the same “standard” way and finish last. I sucked with Tirion too early on cause I leveled too fast (how to play Tirion). Try to learn highly successful methods from people with good winrates. On the other hand, just because a hero is dead last on a list or even have average stats to support that claim, doesn’t mean it’s unplayable and you will lose. That hero might be your dark horse and that’s great! Heroes are a large appeal of the whole mode. Also who's to say "you're wrong" if you're winning or having fun or whatever. You do you.

Watch good players play. The easiest way is to watch streams, I highly recommend watching the streamer Bebe, he's super positive, explains his plays, and answers almost every question asked in chat even if it's the 100th time of the day. If you can't follow live streams, watching recorded videos is also a great way to get better regardless of your MMR. I prefer watching "bad" games instead of Youtube highlights, seeing how a great player makes decisions to recover from a bad hand is much more educational than watching lucky games.

Highly recommend using Hearthstone Deck Tracker. It’s not a must but it’s nice to have. I actually got hate for recommending this, huh. “But it’s cheating” it’s like bring a calculator to a math test when it’s allowed and ones that don’t have it complain… “But I play on mobile…”…hmm well then… okay moving on

Track your stats, also not a must but great to have. I use the [spreadsheet made by u/ShakCentral and edited by u/X0nk21](https://old.reddit.com/r/BobsTavern/comments/ffwnnc/battlegrounds_tracker_spreadsheet_dragons_update/) and [Hearthstone Deck Tracker plugin by u/jawslouis](https://old.reddit.com/r/BobsTavern/comments/ek4o69/match_data_tracker/). Here’s a [Mobile friendly webapp for result tracking and stats by u/heroheman](https://heroheman.github.io/battlegrounds-diary/#/history). I modified my spreadsheet to include a hero list sorted by stats (below). You’d actually be surprised at what heroes you think is good and heroes that actually performed well and got you top 4. For me at least, secrets dude was close to 70% winrate when I was like eh he’s above average okay. I’m also able to take down notes like MMR or what 2 minions I chose for AFK or mistakes I made like buying the buff triple before playing the second one in hand.

Take some screenshots and analyze your plays or ask for opinions when you are unsure what to do. Example: screenshot1/3

Take a break when you’re on a losing streak, stop with the “…but just one more game I can turn it around” I suck at following this but seriously, stop, at least get up and go take a bathroom break.

Some tips on certain break points

4000 – Follow the “standard” gameplay early on, pick good cards
5000 – Know all the heroes and the cards
6000 – Understand what an end game comp looks like, know what you are going for
7000 – Less rolling, knowing how to play and play against different heroes, recognizing and not falling for bait
8000 – Repositioning every turn, counter-play, knowing when to deviate from the “standard” gameplay or comp, less attachments
Insert patch
9000,10000 – Get lucky :P

I’ve been stuck around at 8k for a long time. I’ve commented before asking for some tips to get to or past 9k and higher but never really got an answer. So what exactly changed for me to get past 8500? The meta changed and I leveled faster. And maybe got good heroes. And maybe got pitted in lower lobbies. I’m not sure, but I guess I AM lucky that other people in my lobbies have not adapted that well whether or not I’ve improved.
If you haven’t got the memo yet or if you are losing a lot of MMR due to playing the same way as 2+ weeks ago, the game has shifted since the new patch. This includes dragons, new heroes, removal of a handful of mechs, and lately removal of Tirion. Having a great early game start at 40 health first place can get you knocked out at 8th in 3 turns if you don’t find anything. Spam emote sad face Staying at low tier (with certain exceptions) trying to find a carry does not work well now. I would say most builds starts to get defined at tier 5. Generally if you don't have Cobalt or Juggler don't stay at tier 3 AND tier 4 longer than you have to. Don't try to bank on getting that triple from your 3 weak pairs. Just pick the best cards, try to survive and tier up.

“But I’m already doing all the above, what am I doing wrong?”

Here’s an example: this is your current board screenshot2/3.
The following turn you buy the Zoobot, sell a Harvest Golem, play the Zoobot, buy for the triple Zoobot, get a happy Lightfang, play the golden Zoobot, play the Lightfang, roll, roll and get an Autodefense Matrix secret. Ok cool what now?

!Do you look at your next opponent? You hover and see demons 5 and they dealt 10 damage to their last opponent. Would you reposition your minions? If so how?!<
!Not sure if it was the best but this is what I went with: screenshot3/3
I want the Hydra to go first cause I don’t want it to get sniped, more importantly CLEAVE!! If void daddy was the baby taunt I had a chance to kill 3 with one hit. Low health high attack moves to the front, it’s extremely unlikely demon comps will have cleave. Harvest Golem could have moved back but it’ll likely be pewpew’d down anyway. It worked out though, I didn’t lose this round.!<

Stats!

I’ve played a LOT of games, I don’t think I’m an elite player but I’m guess I’m not that bad… maybe?

Here are my stats prepatch after reaching 1000 games tracked on NA (started tracking 5 games below 5000). I played Millhouse more times than I should just to get him in the win column. Damn it.

Stats from start of patch to top 200

“What the fuck is that tier list you got on the right?”
I got hero icons I can shift around in the spreadsheet. :D
Cool, huh?

“YOU DUMB FUCK, THE ORDER IS FUCKING GARBAGE!!!”
Yeesh. Okay, okay. I would say this is more of a “favored” list for ME rather than a power/potential list suited for everyone. I shift it constantly when I win/lose and I sometimes follow it when I’m conflicted on choosing between heroes. Lol.

“DEATHWING, Yogg, Elise, …AFK!!... and Secrets dude plus those fucking dragons???? WTF???”
Okay fine I admit I pick Deathwing 4th. No other hero can just cruise to tier 6 with 1 single tier 2 minion, it’s just that his inconsistency bothers me. Having a game decided greatly by getting one minion early (talk about forcing comps…), if you don’t get it, picking up mediocre token-ish cards pair that with every other opponent have Rats, it doesn’t feel so good. :(
Yogg would actually be lower if you consider my winrate at 0%, in those games I actually high rolled early too. Then got nothing and died fast. RNG giveth, RNGesus taketh.
Halfway down the heroes, I really haven’t played much. Dragons gets bonus cause they’re new, sadly they’re slowly sliding down like my winrate.

Honestly I don’t think it’s fair to say any hero is garbage ^^^cough ^^^Millhouse just because you’ve had poor results in a few games or “I just avoid X cause the hero power is trash”. That hero just doesn’t perform well with your playstyle. Surely there’s someone out there with unique strategies that bodes well with them. ^^^Teach ^^^me

If you have questions or still want to blast me about Deathwing not being #1 with stats showing that Deathwing is the most powerful hero in all regions at all levels outside the very, very top rated players… leave a comment, I’ll try to answer.

I think that’s it. Good luck.

Posted Mar 10, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC · edited

6221
thepaincave•

Nice post, thanks and congrats! My biggest struggle at around 7K is figuring out when to go all in on a synergistic comp, or just trying for big stats to try to get top four. I find I usually fail when I have a couple of good cards for synergy (soul juggler, cobalt) but my other minions are not strong enough for the late game.

11
kzero0OP•

Thanks!

Hmm, I don't think you really go all in on a comp maybe even up to mid-game unless you got the nuts handed to you, like triple into triple into key cards, where you could just sit back and destroy the lobby.

For example you're at start of tier 3 and you find a Cobalt, that's great. You get a Harvest Golem. Excellent! Now what do you do? Roll for mechs?

Nooooooo... At this point, if the mechs come to me I'll happily take it, otherwise I would want to replace my tier 2 and tier 1 weak minions. Even pure stats 4/4 would be good to fill out your board now or replace your cutecat. Less rolling!

Depending on health and opponent, I would want to level next turn and start finding my supporting cards. Drakonid Enforcer, Annoy-o-Module, Sensei, Egg, Rover, Menace. However I'm not bound to be playing mechs. If I only get options like Hydra, Bronze Warden, Bolvar, I'll pick it up just because it's way better than my current board. Then I'll pick up buff cards along the way too.

If a few turns later Hydra is still a 2/4 then it can go.

If a few turns later Cobalt is your weakest minion if those buffs worked out, it can go too.

I think attachment is more of an issue at around 8k. But it's Cobalt/Brann/Lightfang/Baron or 20/4 Micro Machine, it hurts but sometimes their job is done.

10
Klafutiso•

Congrats on getting top 200 and thank you for taking time to write all these advices, I found it very instructive. ☺️ Hope I will be able to get at least a bit better results from now on, I've been stuck around 7k since the end of demon meta. Good luck for your next games!

8
kzero0OP•

Thanks!

7k general advice is less rolling. Start of tier 3 see a Spawn, buy it! See a Bronze Warden, buy it! See a Hangry (it's a trap) but buy it... maybe. Don't get too attached to pairs, especially if it's weak or if it's going to fall off fast like 2 Murlocs or 2 Zoobots.

6
Bayes42•

Hangry dragon's start of turn ability is gain +2/2 if you win. Hangry Dragon's end of turn ability is "Lose your next match".

10
Klafutiso•

Thank you, I will try my best to apply this! Tho I feel like Hangry Dragon is cursed and breaks your winstreak the moment you take it lol

6
kzero0OP•

Yep. The Hangry Curse.

I took notes of when I got the curse. Nine times, did not win a single round until I sold it. I Reno'ed one too. Got 8th. 10/10 would try again.

7
Trio_Trio_Trio•

Looks like you took all my MMR, I've dropped 1600 since the patch.

4
kzero0OP•

Sorry :(

Good luck!

1
jaedence•

Really nice post. Thanks for taking the time to compose all that and take screenshots to illustrate.

3
kzero0OP•

Thanks! Hope it's somewhat helpful.

2
RodriTama•

Do you have any observation on midgame gameplay changes this meta, that has been working for you? Let's say starting 7 gold/T3.

You mentioned not tunnel visioning in a single comp you wanna build, but playing improvements and get direction from triples, which is good.

People have been defending you should power level to T5 and find stuff there, but just as often I feel like they finish at 5th/6th mark because they took too much damage in the process.

3
kzero0OP•

Start of tier 3 you definitely want to pick up Cobalt so does everybody else in lobby. Next best choice is Soul Juggler (actually questionable but let's just say it is, it's best if you already have the taunt), these two should make you bleed less and not in hurry to tier to 5.

However the key is most people aren't that lucky every game, don't keep on rerolling trying to find these cards, you want to go for the next best option. Generally if you went the "standard" play, you will have about 5 minions on board. Fill out the last 2 slots, preferably with cards that can continue to be impactful in the next 1~3 turns. Spawn, Bronze Warden, Rats, Pack Leader paired with pregnant beasts, Menace for your Zoobot/Leaper, 5/4 demon buff, Crowd Favorite, Hangry, even The Beast if your board is complete garbo, maybe synergy cards.

Next turn level and buy one, if the options are really really bad, roll, sell, and buy one.

Start of tier 4, there are a few conditions you will want to level now. You are super strong (or super healthy) but have no direction, you are strong for now but will fall off VERY fast in the next turn cause you cannot scale (murlocs, dragons, beast), you need that tier 5 key piece (murlocs/baron/wolf), you're facing a DC guy, you gamble cause your board now is horrendous, you triple and/or you can hero power (secrets dude/Rag), you are facing an opponent that you know you are going to win/lose regardless of what you do this turn, your opponent leveled.

Normally I'm okay for waiting one more turn to level so I can replace my tier 2 minions with tier 4 minions.

3
Lexeklock•

My struggle as well.

The main difficulty of the current meta is getting from tier 3 to tier 5 without taking too much damage.

2
_sentry_•

Any advice on end game builds? I feel very confident through early game and mid game but seem to get "unlucky" in the late game. I'm willing to bet it's not luck and that it's actually that I'm not identifying the right pieces to shape my end game comp/have an idea of what the comp should look like. Any thoughts?

1
kzero0OP•

I think a handful of people who see all those first place posts think that they must have that kind of board in order to win. It's a bit misleading cause most won't post their garbage boards. Also the thing is a handful of those boards are built in the last few turns.

Tier 5.

So there's 2 types of "I'm so unlucky". One, I'm looking for Brann and Bargurgle and Prima and Coldlight but I can't find any. Two, I'm getting Alley Cats and Mecharoos and the highest tier card is a Pogo.

If you're the first type, digging for a specific card, you are on a timer depending on what you have now. If you are murlocs I think you only have the luxury of one turn rolling if you don't get anything. If you want to survive you must abort and take those Ironhide Direhorn, Sneed's, Dragon Taunt offered to you.

Without direction (stats/garbage board)

Brann, take it. Argus+Strongshell, take it. Lightfang, take it. Battlemaster, take it, unless you're still at 30 health, feels bad but pass and hope you see it later. Buffs, take it. Bigger stats, take it. Razorgore, take it, cause I like it (okay maybe don't take it if you have zero dragons and zero dragons in shop). Wolf+Baron, hell yeah take it.

When you don't have a definite comp my go-to is Menagerie, sometimes you can find a different carry and you can switch to hybrid or complete transfer later.

3
Lexeklock•

I've read in some other post it is better to go for consistent top 4 than to roll the dice for a first place finish.

Since the patch, i played 120 games give or take, and lost exactly 100 rating from 6k7 to 6k6.

My main problem is that i find it hard to know what champions work best with what comps.

For example , i know that bartender is good with murlocs and dragons , or that shudderwok is nice with murlocs, but it's less obvious to be if the best comp for toki is mechs or dragons . I can and do start the few turns going for pure stats, but it is always hard to transition into a viable late game comp.

More specifically, i cant figure when i should drop my stat stick for a more synergistic minion. It's easy to replace weak minions early for stats, but the real skill is to know when to drop stats for synergy because as you said, most comps get going on tier 5, and if you dont own some key minions when everyone reaches tier 5, then it gets hard to transition into a viable late game.

One exemple from my recent games was me playing DW : had a couple of rat packs and a few token generators, i was at tier 5 while everyone was at tier 3, i had brann, 2 murloc tidecallers and 1 warleader, but despite spending 20 gold trying to get some buffs or some solid replacements , i couldnt transition into a viable murloc comp, meanwhile beasts, mechs and dragons were all taken and eventually the lobby managed to catch up.

I ended up 3rd but i felt like i was robbed from a first place finish.

Do you think you could share a few tips on how to transition from stats to a more well rounded late game comp ?

1
kzero0OP•

Yeah, I don't often get first place.

I don't really tie heroes with comps, unless I'm Millificent, go mechs!! As much as I don't like tier lists, find a couple of tier lists (don't follow mine lol) and pick the common higher tiers heroes that don't really require special play styles (like... avoid Deryl or Lich Bazhial, though I really like them).

20 gold

Way too much even when you're healthy. I think you probably only get the luxury of one turn to roll for Brann, Bargurgle, and Prima. You already got Brann and you're Deathwing so maybe a few more rolls (and) if you pick up stall cards, but generally abort abort. Brann is probably the best card you can get on 5, definitely prepare to transition out after doing nothing for a whole turn. Deathrattle probably works better with Deathwing though.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
kzero0OP•

He's okay.

Lol. I kid, he's one of the best, for those who don't get it, he often replies like that when asked something like "is Rafaam good?" I've watched him quite a bit, sometimes when he's really focused though he barely comments on his plays and decisions. Not saying that in a negative way but it might be harder to follow along if you're in lower ranks or just starting out.

I also watch RDU, learned a lot from him previously like how to play Yogg and Bartendotron. Oh, to be fair, this was before my current horrendous losing streak with Yogg.

Congrats on 9k! From the games I've played I'm not noticing a huge sizable difference (my guess is likely pitted in lower lobbies), try minimizing on small mistakes I think you can make it! Good luck!

1
chicachibiMODBob's Little Helper•

Very thorough post, thanks for your insight!

1
kzero0OP•

Thanks! Good luck in the tavern.

1