Australia got its health response to COVID-19 right at a high price but some feel the risks were overblown and the price tag too large
abc.net.au/news/2020-06-01/counting-the-covid...
abc.net.auPosted May 31, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC
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abc.net.auYeah and some people believe that 5G causes COVID-19.
Sure it’s been a high price, that we’ll be paying for some time, but I’d rather be where we are than where the US & UK are.
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Or even Sweden, which some people like to point out as an indication of everything being fine. Except it's like people are just ignoring that of all countries Sweden:
- ranks 25th in total cases
- ranks 24th in per capita cases
- ranks 18th in total deaths
- ranks 8th in per capita deaths
- ranks 90th in Population size
In contrast to Australia who:
- ranks 63rd in total cases
- ranks 105th in per capita cases
- ranks 69th in total deaths
- ranks 124th in per capita deaths
- ranks 54th in population
You can resurrect an economy.
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Deaths per 1,000,000 people
Australia - 4
Sweden - 400
Sweden's economy is apparently about to tank and the rest of Europe are looking at passing legislation to isolate Sweden since they're still refusing to do anything to stop COVID-19.
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Add to that - the other Scandinavian countries are creating a bubble zone to allow transport between them, but have excluded Sweden.
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Norway, which is right next door ranks:
- 58th in total cases
- 57th in per-capita cases
- 54th in total deaths
- 47th in per-capita deaths
- 117th in population size
Given the differences between Sweden and Norway, I know where I would prefer to live.
The reality of "WHAT ABOUT THE ECONOMY" argument is that it's really only used by people who don't understand that all countries economies are inherently linked together globally. If the rest of the world is going to have a recession then your country, whoever it is, is probably going to have one too. Australia, being the only standout there, got through largely by luck due to international demand for its products. Even then, we only missed out on two recessions by technicalities.
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We are 69th in total deaths.... don’t say it.... nice ahhh fuck
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Places like Sweden are going to feel like dogs on rollerblades if a vaccine comes out in the next year or so.
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But when we vaccinate our population won't thousands of people suddenly drop dead since those deaths are 'inevitable' and we have such a vulnerable community now because there's no immunity /s
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Sweden's per capita cases isn't particularly high because they've done bugger all testing, as the Orange Man has been known to say, if you don't test you don't get cases.
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Particularly when the world wants iron ore
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While it would be idiotic to think that Sweden has done better than Australia, and I don’t mean to say they have done better than other countries, comparing statistics like that doesn’t take into consideration stuff like how those statistics are compiled, how many tests have been done and where every nation is on the curve.
Australia’s done great so far, but if we don’t prepare to a second wave then we might rethink that statement.
Basically, it’s still too early to tell who did it better. So far? Sure. But it’s not over yet.
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Oh it's definitely telecommunication technology, that's why it mostly kills the elderly right because they can't adapt? /s
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Amen to that. I doubt a Government could ever please everyone when dealing with a crisis like the virus. So far though, as a country we have lost very few people to the virus. I shudder when I see people shouting loud about their personal inconveniences and their personal freedoms, but I accept that they have their point of view. The cost? Well would you rather pay the cost that the USA has paid?
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I look at Melbourne and Sydney as poor bastards stuck in a sorry soup, let alone worry about the unfolding cataclysms in the US and UK.
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Please stop spreading that false flag!!!! :(
People were worried about 5g WAY BEFORE coronavirus even existed.
5g causing coronavirus was a lie invented by the media to trick people into thinking anyone who mentions 5g is crazy.
5g and coronavirus are NOT RELATED.
5g remaining a serious threat IS LIKELY.
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You are wrong. Stop being driven by fear.
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Look I hope so. Why do you feel safe?
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Because I understand radio frequencies, bandwidth, the effects of such on the body, the energy requirements and wavelength requirements to react with matter types, the difference between the wavelengths and electronics.
I also understand at above basic virology, chemical reactions, biology and immune responses.
5G isn't an issue, Corona is. I don't fear either, I am not in a risk category for Corona, but that doesn't mean I can't carry live virus to those who are and be the cause of their death. By washing my damn hands, keeping a bit of distance and coughing into my elbow (The same stuff you do to lower the chance of spreading flu) I can almost entirely avoid killing others.
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Lol ok Alex Jones.
Btw why do conspiracy theorists always write in all-caps?
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It's easier than italics.
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It's interesting that there are still people that think the restrictions are the cause of all the economic damage and lifting all the restrictions would fix all our problems.
Dividing the cost by the lives we didn't save rather than by the ones we did also seems completely illogical.
*mumbles something in Swedish*
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but mah franking credits
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Its not like that by chance the LNP keep linking corona and this recession every chance they get so people dont remember the financial mismanagement and corporate corrupt hand outs for year before this kicked off, which has stolen alot of opportunities and made life almost unbearable for the average citizen , the recession was coming no matter what , Corona is just a convenient cover... from first in the world on financial standing (labor) to 35th (LNP) that was before corona so we a probs worse now ... SCOMO the clown , well im not laughing
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Don't worry about all the should haves and should nots, you guys/gals did well. We have the same lot asking whether it was worth it or not here.
Hopefully we can make a bubble soon.
Cheers from across the ditch.
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I recently watched a video where US talk show host Stephen Colbert visits NZ and your PM picks him up. It was hilarious. Your country is so fortunate to have such an awesome PM during time past and current crisis.
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Haha yea that was a while back. She keeps her word most of the time, said she'd pick him up from the airport and she did!
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Honestly all politics aside if you ever wanted someone to be in charge during any crisis you couldn't do much better than Jacinda - she keeps showing strong calm leadership again and again.
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Sorry but I don't see how you can have your own bubble when people are rioting in millions. If anything, things are going to get way more ugly there.
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Umm, we are on the other side of the planet to the United States riots...
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I thought by across the ditch you were referring to the US. Thanks for the downvote!
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Ahhh no worries bro, down here we say "across the ditch" when referring to the AUS/NZ relationship. I didn't downvote you so your algood.
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The Ditch is the Tasman Sea, not the Pacific Ocean.
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Thanks :) I learnt a new thing today.
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Upvote for learning, chur.
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Over-reacting was precisely what was required. We didn't know how bad it could get, and it's much better to wind back restrictions than try to implement them too late. And now we (and NZ) are already starting to return to normal while the UK and US, among others, are still a complete disaster.
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But it just goes away in the summer, they'll be fine /s
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Its so weird people saying we over reacted. Our shutdown wasn't even as strict as NZ, USA or some European countries.
Yet our numbers are better and our lockdown is shorter.
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Some people are idiots.
Like those referenced in this article.
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NZ has 1 confirmed active case right now. I would argue their numbers are better, even if they had slightly more total per capita.
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Hindsight is 20/20....but even with hindsight I believe our response was fine.
Would you prefer to have had the same outcome as majority of Europe? USA? Brazil? Russia? The list could go on.
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Oh no I totally agree that our approach was much better than others (it could have been better at a federal level but the states stepped up thankfully).
Dealing with this hard and fast is the correct response, there's a lot of people out there that think all the problems are a result of the restrictions not a result of a global pandemic. The restrictions will be the thing that saves our economy in the long run.
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But i dont think there is an issue with askint the question
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Lets pretend covid was the reason for our struggling economy, it was but a mere catalyst.
The response was slower than it should have been, but adequate despite our government. The road to 'recovery' expense will be the environment, the erosion of workers rights, pay and the increased donor corporate welfare to follow.
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Covid is why the economy has tanked this bad though, don’t try and pretend it isn’t. It had problems already, but this pushed it off the cliff and has absolutely decimated entire industries that were doing just fine at the time.
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It's partly the reason. We were headed towards a recession anyway. COVID-19 has just made it worse.
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A lot worse.
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Sure, but the situation was very bad to begin with and it was almost entirely due to economic mismanagement.
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Sure if you discount casualisation of the work force, unsustainable commercial and residential rents, heavy reliance on a single trading partner, unsustainable cost of living rises vs wages. Poor NBN infrastructure. Rubbish welfare system. Underfunded universities. Government feeding from the public trough. Then yes its covids fault.
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What point are you trying to make?
Whether it is far worse because of covid is not relevant at this point. It is what it is.
The lockdowns and restrictions were the right thing to do to save 10's of if not 100's of thousands of lives.
I would not want to give my life for the sake of a company or industry, maybe you would be happy to die to protect tourism and or the economy. But no thanks.
By arguing that covid19 response is the cause are you suggesting that the response was wrong and the economy is more important than people's lives?
Or are you just arguing to be right? In which case what difference does it make?
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ckdowns and restrictions were the right thing to do to save 10's of if not 100's of thousands of li
Huh? I'm responding to a person that said that COVID isn't the reason why the economy is in the toilet at the moment. Are you even reading what you're replying to?
I would not want to give my life for the sake of a company or industry, maybe you would be happy to die to protect tourism and or the economy.
What the actual fuck? Where have I said anything even remotely like that? I was 100000% in favour of the shutdowns and lockdowns. I would have been fine with them doing it quicker and stricter.
By arguing that covid19 response is the cause are you suggesting that the response was wrong and the economy is more important than people's lives?
Again, never said anything of the sort.
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It was always going to be a case of if our lockdowns were successful we would have people saying we overreacted because look, we barely had any infections and deaths despite that being because of the lockdowns.
Dumb people being dumb, more at 8.
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[deleted]
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We know that a highly contagious virus that is decimating other countries being effectively stopped in its tracks because we took away most paths of infection transmission worked. It doesn't take future research to know that.
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Other things might have worked, sure - but we did this and it did work because viruses can't spread from person to person contact if there is no person to person contact.
I can't believe this argument is even happening lol.
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OBGraph: https://peterattiamd.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/200419-image-covid-19.jpeg
"See, it wasn't so bad, we overreacted."
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Yep I've been overreacting my whole life with all sorts of preventative measures, what an idiot, a healthy happy alive idiot
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Yep, those seat belts are a total over reaction and are just a scam by big...umm auto.
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Ah this is so typical, country moves on from having millions of football coaches and experts to millions of epidemiologists and economic experts.
One thing in common, they all come after the game/pandemic and claim they knew better.
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As many have said, the crisis wasn't the virus but the state of society leading up to it.
The price seems too high only because we waste so much money on tax rorts for the rich and other corrupt handouts. If we got rid of that there would be a lot more money coming in and people would be more self sufficient since they wouldn't spending their whole working lives paying a mortgage.
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Not too mention a lot of people and companies living pay to pay. There are people who are genuinely struggling to make ends meet but there's a lot more that could save some money but spend it on coffee/alcohol/cigarettes/luxuries. There are a lot of individuals and organisations that need to take more responsibility for their own finances moving forward and as a society we should encourage that rather than promoting constant excess consumerism.
Yes property is ridiculously expensive but it's only part of the problem, albeit a large part.
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I'd be curious to know if the same response would've occurred had the virus been deadlier for young people.
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What is 'young'? People under 50, under 40, under 30, under 20, under 10, under 5?
The disease is most deadly to those with comorbidities and weakened immune systems, which can happen at any age.
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...but are MUCH more common as you age.
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I think the response wouldn't be much different (unless it specifically targeted middle aged white men, then the politicians might go harder) but I think the community sentiment towards the restrictions would have been different. Kind of ironic for a country where our oldest culture has such respect for elders.
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Hindsight is 20/20... regardless of if the restrictions had a massive effect or not, I for one wouldn't go back in time and change anything just to see how may more people die that time. I like to think that Australians on the whole did a cracker job stomping the curve and getting on the way back to work!
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I think the saying "hindsight is 20/20" was actually a warning from time travellers that 2020 was going to be a train wreck
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.... And those people are fucking idiots who believe that there are no consequences to their actions.
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Ah, yes, the old hindsight view.
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Yea it was a waste of mohey, just like getting vaxies for diseases you dont have. /s
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yeah it's like the "my kids were never vaccinated and they were fine" argument that doesn't look at the big picture
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Lives > money
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High price, perhaps, but ultimately lower than everybody else, who are taking larger hits and more deaths anyway.
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Yeah I actually think we'll come out well ahead compared to lots of countries
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Charlie Pickering came up with a good one. "we built a pool fence and no one drowned, it looks like the fence was a waste of money."
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It only seems like an “overreaction “ because it worked.
Yep. People still claim Y2K was an overreaction.
I remember almost hyperventilating doing all that data entry. Nobody talks about the sweaty shirtless men doing all-nighters at the office, chewing licorice. The unsung heroes of Y2K.
A quote from, ironically, the US. "In the end, it will be impossible to know if we overreacted or did too much. It will be QUITE apparent if we underreacted or did too little".
Basically, both sides will claim they were right. If only one side can prove it, something has gone very wrong.
Theres actually a very different article from the ABC's take on this on, well, the ABC: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-paradox-lowest-point-finest-hour-opinion/story?id=69602027