Shade00a00, you are not fit to moderate this subreddit.
Posted May 21, 2011, 5:48 AM UTC · edited
1.2K814
Wow:
I'm a moderator. It is up to me to decide what is unacceptable. Everything else, people can vote on. Seriously, you can even express your disagreement, but if you don't like it, you don't have to stay.
If we don't like censorship we can leave? Is this his subreddit? What the fuck. Put me down for requesting he resign.
285
Totally unacceptable attitude for a moderator to have.
90
No, actually. This is exactly what a moderators attitude should be.
-7
In a traditional forum format maybe. The point of reddit is that the users vote for the content they want to see. Reddit moderators are there to keep it clear of spam and harmful links NOT to push their own agenda and opinion.
4
Tell that to TL.
Well, try to tell that to TL.
-10
TL is a different site set up for different reasons and motivations, and moderated with specific intentions.
15
[deleted]
1
You may not like their moderation (I think they are bit on the harsh side sometimes), but the end result is decent content. But TL is also many moderators and I am sure they keep each other in check and they follow very specific rules and direction. This one man moderation show bullshit is not the same nor acceptable.
3
I'm a moderator. It is up to me to decide what is unacceptable. Everything else, people can vote on. Seriously, you can even express your disagreement (which may be censored), but if you don't like it, you don't have to stay.
FTFY
43
jedberg
However, each moderator can choose to run his or her subreddit however they choose.
If you don't like their policies, you have the choice of going to another subreddit or creating your own with your own policies.
Some have an anything goes policy, and some have a lot of rules.
Hate it or like it, that is the way the cookie crumbles.
Subreddits are at the disposal of the people who run them.
32
Maybe, but I still can't shake the feeling that the ousting of the WP mods was sort of a coup d'état.
1
I thought they left on their own accord.
3
[deleted]
2
It may be, but what about having the admins at a similar, and possibly competing, community site control what gets posted in our subreddit? That's a huge conflict of interest, and I can't believe wellplayed staff is here moderating.
1
Is this his subreddit?
Isn't it his subreddit? He was the one who created it 2 years ago. I was wrong. But it really changes nothing. Shade is the top mod of this subreddit now, which means he can remove and ban whoever he wants. You can create your own subreddit too and be a mod of it. And in that subreddit you can censor whatever the hell you want.
-11
He was the one who created it 2 years ago.
Nope.
7
No? he is the top moderator of this subreddit is he not? Did the original mod create it and leave?
4
[deleted]
130
Yep, Firi was the original creator. Someone further up the thread mentioned it and I confirmed via archive.org.
1
I always thought reddit was a mostly self-moderated system, users downvote what they don't like and upvote the good content. For me that's largely been the brilliance of my reading experience on the site.
155
Yeah but shit like this happens once in a while, unfortunately, as well as voting with the consensus.
23
nice name :)
0
I wouldn't characterize my experience of submissions on reddit as brilliance. Generally speaking, my more well thought out more intelligent submissions get down-voted into oblivion, while my stupid one sentence posts stating my general opinion on something get crazy upvotes. Count me disillusioned.
21
while my stupid one sentence posts stating my general opinion on something get crazy upvotes
That's likely due to people upvoting because they simply agree with it and don't want to make a separate post about it.
On the other hand, controversial opinions are (unfortunately) more likely to get downvoted.
5
Oh well, luckily these facts will not even make the least impact on the quality of your life or your overall happiness ... right?
-3
Well I figure that if I think my better content gets downvoted, imagine all the stuff I haven't seen on the front page for the same reasons.
4
r/starcraft is mostly self moderated, from what I understand the links removed here were reported as spam by the community, the mods aren't removing them for shits and giggles, they're being asked to do so by US.
Deleting the posts people made about censorship was a poor choice. Censoring r/starcraft to prove you don't censor r/starcraft doesn't really send the right message. I've been posting to this subreddit since there were about 600 members, never had anything censored, I hope it stays that way.
2
Except there's no such thing as a self-moderated system when it comes to leaking private details to the public. You either act immediately and uniterally or you tacitly condone it.
Spamming the AACS key was funny because it was a way for the masses to stick it to The Man. On the other hand, spamming the details of somebody's life (the case at hand) borders on harassment. You can't let "the community" decide whether it's acceptable. It never is.
2
I can understand mods removing the TL/Tyler thing, though. Yeah, it was Tyler's fault for not hiding it when streaming, but it was an accident, involving personal information. It is more of a violation of 'rights' to screencap it and share it with everyone, than it is to try to hinder it from spreading.
-1
whats the TL / tyler thing? what happpened there?
2
Then you're free to downvote the submission and tell the topic creator to stop posting stuff like that. It should be up to the community if it's unacceptable or not.
1
The community can't really make that decision though. You can only downvote or upvote after you have read it. Which means it is already too late. In a system like this, privacy can never be honored. In cases like this, I don't mind the mods deleting threads to try and protect someones privacy.
Let's try to keep away from FOX news and similar garbage.
6
The community can't really make that decision though.
Then who can?
You can only downvote or upvote after you have read it. Which means it is already too late.
That same could be said about the mods. And it's not true. You can read what others have to say about it (needs only be one person) and up/downvote based on that. Tyler's privacy is brutalized? No thank you, downvote. It's that simple.
In a system like this, privacy can never be honored.
It's the internet. If you let something like this happen, it will be discussed, one way or another. If not on reddit, then somewhere else. I personally think reddit should be one of the neutral places where the audience themselves decide what they want to see. (That's what makes it special, after all.) If you want strict moderation, there are plenty of regular forums.
Let's try to keep away from FOX news and similar garbage.
That's up to the community. You might not agree with the majority, but that's the nature of democratic solutions.
NOTE: I haven't clicked the link yet myself. I can't say I care too much about it. For me, this is more a matter of principle.
0
I don't think the mods in this subreddit realize that the mere existence of a thread like this with as many upvotes as this has means that Shade00a00 has to be removed. A subreddits userbase has to have confidence in the moderators and as moderators of a large subreddit, you pretty much don't have the option of not heeding to what your subreddits userbase wants.
I strongly suggest that for the sake of the integrity of this community, Shade00a00 resign voluntarily and if not, then involuntarily.
133
-____-
There's a huge number of downvotes too, and this thread has a 61% approval rating which isn't that high, and several people have stated that they are only upvoting this thread not because they want shade out but because they think this is an interesting and important discussion to have.
The integrity of this community? Mods don't have nazi powers, Shade has been a great moderator for a while now, and I still see negligible evidence that he did anything inappropriate or wrong. Regardless, moderating on reddit is a team effort and Shade doesn't have more power to remove or accept content than anyone else; his rejections go into a list that other moderators see, and if you have a problem with the way shade is acting, then you have a problem with the way the entire moderating team is acting because they are letting him do this.
-55
The majority of downvotes is from the spam filter, meaning it automatically creates downvotes for every single post to skew the approval rate to near 66%.
And yes, I do have a problem with the way the entire moderating team is acting.
44
I do too. I can't believe they're even questioning keeping him on.
11
Are you sure that's how it works? A recent submission of mine is running at 500+ pts, with an 87% approval rating.
-1
Yes.
1
Whoever downvoted you / plasterofparis is wrong, the approval rating is not what's artificial, it's the actual number of upvotes and downvotes. The approval rating is reflective of the actual number of up and down votes
-1
Your comment has a huge number of downvotes too. Clearly it should be removed by the moderators.
10
ya but just like you say it should have been a discussion but instead he is going around deleting all his posts and bannign anyone talking about him
2
LOL for you getting downvoted. I've read other peoples replies to this and I agree with them, this subreddit has no Redditquette even though there has been repeated posts to keep that in mind. I'm going to unsubscribe to r/starcraft and not support the fact that all the subreddit lurkers and trolls downvote anything that doesn't support their oppinions and yet have massive upvotes for overplayed memes. Pathetic.
EDIT: See? Keep downvoting me because you disagree with what i say. Lol.
-26
I downvoted you because you add nothing to the conversation. Mmkramer was downvoted because his argument was flawed.
You keep using that powerful confirmation bias of yours.
14
Gotta agree about the memes. It's like that picture that was around a while back with the caption "MEME ALL THE THINGSSS!!!!"
4
111
Can you share?
-3
hahahaha we have a winner
-3
if I were mod I would ban you instantly for this 4chan shit.
buhhahahahaha but I am not, luckily..
-23
I think people in this thread are not in the mood.
-1
[deleted]
89
Shade00a00 is kinda an embarrasment to the subreddit right now. I would say they should stand down, but I am sure this post will be deleted before anyone would have a time to read it.
44
If by 'overcoming censorship' you mean regularly allowing large subreddits to be moderated by petty dictators who are often social media consultants, than yes, Reddit does have a pretty rich history of overcoming censorship.
14
'Overcome by censorship'?
5
users eventually got to overcome censorship and power hungry mods. see r/trees, r/gamernews
5
[deleted]
2
Hell yeah redditors of r/starcraft.
Shade00a00, I suggest you become a mod at Team Liquid.
83
53
ugh, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little
41
The man is a professional brown-noser.
2
ZIIIING
15
User was temp banned for this post.
54
CHILL GET OUT
8
Maybe he is just trying parody of TL here...
...if you don't like it, you don't have to stay.
2
[deleted]
-4
Whoa, I just stumbled into serious town.
74
Seriously....
13
While I don't care much about this sub reddit, the one thing I hate more than self-important people who try to impose their view to others on the claim that they have one bit of power, are the people who always come and try to turn it in to a joke because they don't feel concerned.
Maybe it doesn't affect you, but you really don't need to mock those who actually cared about giving everyone a fair treatment.
8
Perhaps he was just using a bit of humor to dilute a very intense discussion. It seems pretty unanimous that the mod is in the wrong. The thread goes: "he's a douche!" "yeah I agree what a dick." "I know, right, fuck that guy!" it's not like Dave would be adding much value to the discussion by agreeing with the guy that agrees with the other guy. It's a humorous "this!" paraphrased with a joke. Not sure what the problem is.
5
And you know who I hate? Basement virgin retards whose balls haven't dropped quite low enough to be Internet superheroes on /b/ and order pizzas to Jack Thompson's address, so they fight for freedom on a goddamn video game subreddit because someone deleted a post or two.
Do you even fucking realize that upvotes and downvotes aren't the only thing that determine a story's visibility? Even if we were all paragons of virtue who immediately agreed to downvote Tyler's private conversation, all it would take is three retards in the thread arguing with everyone, and it would still be front page with a bullet.
There is absolutely no way to protect Tyler's privacy at Tyler's request without moderation. Much as you enjoy the righteous fury of your Reddit zealotry, upvote/downvote is actually not the be-all, end-all solution to all human interaction.
-16
You're a little too upset over his post, man, chill out. Like you said, it's just an internet forum.
5
Stupidity requires a response, but it has not earned a civil response.
My tone in responding to nolok is exactly the type of thing that doesn't require moderation, the downvote/upvote system is perfectly suited for dealing with it. Am I offending more people than I'm convicing? A democratic solution to a subjective problem.
If someone fished out his home address and posted it here to incite IRL trolling, I would fucking pray the actual moderators were quick on the trigger finger, because a democratic solution is terrible in this case.
-6
I think you are missing my point here and attacking me for no reason except you need to vent. For the record, I have no idea what the "censored" thread were about and I don't even know who Tyler is except he's in liquid and he played a couple of games in the TSL.
All I was saying is, if someone feels concerned that their voice is being shut down without reason, people shouldn't mock them, be it reddit, starcraft, or whatever.
Aside from that, I really don't understand your personal attacks, first because they don't come close to apply to me and second because even if they did I don't see how that change the worth of what I said.
2
I'm attacking you because you're using idiotic language to describe this situation. This is not a goddamn human rights issue, it's moderation on a starcraft discussion forum.
Fuck you in the ear for accusing people of "abusing power" because they deleted a terrible post or two.
-3
you make a lot of good points that are lost in your violent rhetoric
just sayin
1
I don't care to change the mind of anyone who misses good points because of the tone.
-2
Internet forums do love their drama. Makes us feel important.
6
I'm not important, and neither is this comment.
9
what can I say? r/firstworldproblems/
-1
ended up on slippery slope street, eh
2
I'm still slightly torn on whether or not removing the original Tyler content was appropriate, but deleting the posts accusing you of it, that I am hugely against. If you didn't do it, say so. Don't delete the accusation, even if you then go on to say that's what you did. Huge, huuuge fuck up there.
70
Whether the 'Tyler Content' was appropriate or not, I wouldn't be surprised if in the end it was disseminated to a greater extent as a result of this. If this is the case, this style of moderation isn't even practical at achieving its intended purpose and both sides of the appropriateness issue should be against it.
14
CHILL GET OUT
60
MODS THIS MAN IS BEING IRRELEVANT. GET HIM
19
[deleted]
1
YEAH! RETARDS SHOUTING ABOUT BULLSHIT IS WHAT MAKES THIS /R/STARCRAFT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT GO POST AT TL WITH THE REST OF THE STUFFED SHIRTS.
1
gogo?
3
go.
1
No. He isn't.
The thing that I love about reddit is the purely democratic system of filtration. if there is spam, the general population gets to "remove" it with the downvote tool. When the G-pop has the ability to do this (rather than a moderator) than the product will be what best suits that same population as a whole.
When moderators come around, however, things begin to change a little bit. Rather than the displayed product being a near perfect representation of what the majority enjoys, it becomes what the moderators at hand enjoy (to some degree). Now, this sounds like I'm saying mods in general are these stone cold dictators, but that's not what I mean. Even someone with the best intentions can begin to shape a forum into what s/he desires it to be, without even the knowledge that they are doing it (I speak from experience).
This is exactly what happens on Team'Liquid; the moderators have only the best intentions for the community (or what the believe it to be), but they actually represent the highest intellectual platform of that community. That is what leads to stupid posts being removed. This is a key concept to this whole issue; moderation is almost always preformed with a select group of the total population in mind, regardless of intent.
Unfortunately, that is what has happened here with Shade. I don't blame the guy for this and don't necessarily think he needs to step down and whatnot, but I do think we need to look at moderators a little bit more clearly and define their roles more quantitatively around here (that is obviously personal).
Again, this is just me talking, but I think that Moderators on a place like r/starcraft should be more like custodians. Rather than actually moderate what is happening on this forum, they pull out the tried and true trash that prevents or muddles that action, and I really think that every ban or delete should be decided by a vote (or one should at least be taken into consideration). I think that was pretty close to how it was with the WP guys, and I think we did really well there.
Anyways, just my two cents. I hope someone reads this!
I'm sorry, but I can't do TL;DRs very well so I would just recommend reading the wall if you glanced here hoping.
Custodian
56
Best post in this thread yet.
3
This is how we moderate over at r/diablo.
2
Fixed
.. tl moderators represent the highest intellectual platform, in my opinion, that is me Boned4420.
2
I liked it apart from calling it "the product" quite a few times.
1
Right, so let me try to unravel your 2-4 points from this.
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Moderators = censorship. Fair enough, but it's just a semantics argument - people are objecting to censorship, whether the people that censor have a title that implies that role or not.
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What happened here is probably shade misunderstanding his role, or perhaps the community misunderstood what the role of moderators have really always been. This may be true, though I dare say shade appears harbor an attitude that does not mesh with the denizens of this subreddits expectations of a moderator/custodian. I base this on a choice few of his comments which have been highlighted in this thread.
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Moderators/custodians should only remove content that is very irrelevant which nearly exclusively should be spam - the downvoting system should handle the rest. I agree completely here.
1
The TL forums, IIRC, don't have the voting system like reddit does, hence the unecessary and douche-like cencorship by shade. I think the SC community knows what is best for the SC community, there is no reason to screw with a perfectly working system.
1
Again, this is just me talking, but I think that Moderators on a place like r/starcraft should be more like custodians. Rather than actually moderate what is happening on this forum, they pull out the tried and true trash that prevents or muddles that action, and I really think that every ban or delete should be decided by a vote (or one should at least be taken into consideration).
Or, maybe, you know, that should just happen by not deleting the submission and keep it the the way it almost already fucking is with the upvote/downvote system.
0
What I meant is that when a moderator thinks personally that someone is posting repeated trash (things like homophobic or racist titles), and would like to save the community from repeatedly downvoting the same stuff by removing the person from the subreddit, then they could allow a vote of some sort with precompiled evidence against the accused offender.
Just a thought, maybe it isn't a very good idea. I just prefer decisions like bans and removal of material to be left to a group rather than an individual's judgement.
1
I am sorry that I will not be able to reply to this until later tonight as I am heading up to NASL HQ for the afternoon. This hit at a bad time for me.
First of all let me say that I agree with Shade's initial decision to respect Tyler's privacy. I administrated after the initial policy was set accordingly.
However I am a strong advocate against censorship and a strong proponent for democracy. I agree that it should have been brought before the community.
This topic has been brought up before (during the brief democratic revolution) and it was summarily dropped. If reddit really wants things to work this way I am willing to bet that Shade would be willing to agree if there was some sort of system in place and if the community was vocal enough to actually fight for it.
I think Shade has done a lot of hardwork for r/starcraft. I also think that he is skeptical of democary in the subreddit. However I do not think he would be unwilling to debate the merits and even consider compromises.
I highly suggest hunting down those threads and reviewing the conversations. One major point was democratically voting for moderators. The entire issue was dropped and things continued as normal.
I am sure its no mystery that memory problems plague r/starcraft. We all need to decide right now what you want from the future of the reddit or we will probably just all forget about this in 2 weeks and in another 2 months have another topic exactly like this.
47
hilarious how the OP is now banned. enough said
27
The problem is that there is no reason to mod completely legitimate content like that. If someone "gets a scoop" like that and posts it on reddit, that is why people come to reddit.
Censoring something that 1.) tyler himself was at fault for accidentally releasing and 2.) something that should be out there regardless, is just useless. If tyler is having issues being a pro gamer, this will hopefully force him to decide. at this stage in esports, you can't really go half-assed. It's either all in with practicing and dedication, or find a more stable job that you don't have doubts about.
I can't imagine what reddit would do if this were actual news. Imagine reddit getting a scoop on some huge news item in the international sphere, but the government or what not involved asked the mod to censor it and THEY COMPLIED!
It just seems like this sets a precedent for reddit to turn into every other boring no-content news source on the web.
My mind is so blown.. I mean this is why people move away from TL. Then TL mods reach out with invisible hands and shape the news on reddit, as well...
14
The Tyler issue is irrelevant, this is about whether or not a r/sc mod has overstepped his authority, and what kind of community do we want. Should this happen against, do we have the mechanisms in place for the community to self correct itself when a mod's personal interest conflicts with that of the greater community, or are we simply Team Liquid Jr?
4
I agree with you completely (and you as well, Diggity). The Tyler-episode reminds me a little bit of when HDStarcraft forgot to edit out some stuff from a video a while back. There wasn't any censorship then, so why should it be here? If the mods take out the spam, then mods DON'T get to take out the stuff that makes Reddit the way it is.
And I feel that there's a big difference between Bronze League Hero-meme-shit and removing stuff because a mod feels that it's not something we should be spreading...
2
We all need to decide right now what you want from the future of the reddit
You, Shade, and rkiga to step down as mods.
9
I already have made public that I plan on stepping down at the end of may
12
Why not, you know, right now?
-17
Because he still hasnt done the whole thing he was brought on for (the visit to BlizzHQ)
8
why rkiga
he's fucking awesome and I would be willing to bet, anti-censorship
4
Conflict of interest, bro. He works for WP.org.
4
rkiga? when he became a mod 2-3 weeks ago everyone was happy about it. I don't mind him being a part of wellplayed. The amount of work he contributes to r/sc was and still is huge.
0
He can contribute without being a mod.
There's an obvious conflict of interest with him being a mod in r/sc.
1
What do you mean by 'conflict of interest'? The fact that he also contributes to wp.org? Good for him, and for wp.org, the more content, the better. As long as he is doing his job here, it doesn't matter. Would you expect him to refresh r/sc every 5 seconds to check for new content to moderate? Mod work requires 1-2 hours a day, no more. I don't see him plugging links to wp.org and if that happens, I'm sure this bloodthirsty mob will be more than happy to blow that out of proportion as well.
0
Thank you for this, finally people may see sense in it.
6
Why does every moderator/IAMA person have to explicitly name where they work??
1
?
1
- You work for WP and for NASL. You also became a moderator without asking the community if they wanted you.
- Rkiga works for WP.
- Shade doesn't believe in democracy in this subreddit.
You should all resign.
edit: deleted wrong part about Shade.
-1
I actually asked that my moderatorship be brought to community vote. It was not.
Please stop spreading blatant lies. You aren't helping the conversation.
14
You aren't helping the conversation with your misdirection either. His statement is not a blatant lie, as you just admitted in your post. The community did not ask for you. The decisions lead to your appointment may not have been entirely your responsibility, but that does not change the facts.
It would be greatly appreciated if you would not accuse people of lying when you confirm their statement in the very same post.
6
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I did ask. It is well documented. Blatant lie 1.
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Rkiga doesn't work for WP. Blatant lie 2
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Shade doesn't believe in Democracy. This is at best a partial lie. He has no idea what Shade thinks. Shade may very well not believe in democracy but he hasn't made public statements to this fact.
How is pointing out facts misdirection?
6
I actually asked that my moderatorship be brought to community vote. It was not.
So step down. The community has voted, and we're not fans of the obvious conflict of interest here.
-1
I have a project I am working on for r/starcraft which will conclude at the end of may. Once it is finished I will step down.
No I cant talk about.
3
2.Rkiga works for WP.
ORLY? The paycheck must have gotten lost in the mail then...
edit: to clarify I'm a volunteer writer with $0 pay.
9
I can confirm that Rkiga is entirely independant.
10
Aren't you a volunteer for WP, a website to which r/starcraft is a direct competitor? If not, I apologize.
-3
To be fair, there is no "direct competition". Reddit is totally non-for profit, its not like more hits do well for our bottom line (unlike WP); we're just here because of mutual shared enthusiasm for SC
3
Actually it was my decision to mod Diggity, based on his contribution he will be making to the community with the visit to Blizzard HQ representing us.
7
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He can't make this contribution without being a moderator?
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He needs the power to delete submissions?
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And why would someone become a moderator just for 1 month? What is the reasoning behind it?
I don't understand.
7
It was just an official seal of approval, before people started hating the mods here.
3
- Diggity's said that he's just going to be mod until we find someone better iirc.
- So?
- Yeah that's why he is not fit to be a mod and why he should go.
-5
The people have spoken and they want a Starcraft themed 4chan.
Keep acting indignant whenever someone suggests nixing your precious forced memes and denying the truth, downvoters.
-5
Boy, this meme sure has changed since I was in the biz.
45
Come back!
2
You know where to find me if you ever want to. I'm still on pretty much every day. Just not on this account.
3
Replace him with SC2_JOKE_EXPLAINER.
38
Do you think Day[9] has the time to be a mod on reddit?
4
He wouldn't waste his time.
20
Why the fuck would he want to?
7
We need SC2_JOKE_EXPLAINER in here to explain the running joke that he is Day[9].
7
ones doubts it
2
I want to know how much damage 200 probes will do I DEMAND THAT POST BE PUT BACK GOD DAMNIT.
EDIT:
On a more serious note, as a mod of r/diablo I often looked to r/starcraft to how we mods over there should run a subreddit, you can bet your ass I won't be letting this shit happen over there. This is unacceptable.
38
I wanna know about the mass probe too, can't imagine why that was deleted.
9
What would meet the criteria for something being bad enough to ban someone from posting? Just curious.
1
We removed a post the other day, it was about botting. Anything against the blizzard ToS will be removed. So botting, gold buying/selling, item buying/selling (For real money) Selling accounts (For WoW), stuff like that.
2
[deleted]
1
Works for me, but let us make your job easier, the downvote arrow is there for a reason, along with the report spam button.
2
Someone needs to write up some calculations and do the post right. 200 probes vs different armor types. Sounds fun.
2
[deleted]
-3
Really? It needs your approval? Have you not read anything in here?
3
I think you're making some sensational claim here. What personal gain is Shade00a000 receiving? I understand him overstepping some bounds by removing posts he may should not, but I see absolutely no "gains" for him personally.
Also what is the actual order of events here? As I understand it (from the thread) it was
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Tyler forgot to black screen a conversation.
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Someone took a screenshot of it, posted it and it disappeared (no record).
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Others appeared but were caught as "spam" and Shade00a000 marked it "not spam" and asked the OP to remove it out of respect for Tyler's privacy.
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Post was removed and a separate post was created claiming censorship.
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Mod post showing screenshots and censorship posts removed.
Do I have the order right? Am I missing anything?
30
He doesn't need to be gaining anything personally to be unfit as a moderator. What he views as a part of his role/right as moderator is not in line with what reddit essentially is, and looking at the his replies so far, he thinks his actions are justified.
25
[deleted]
15
But that is one of the accusation that the OP is making. I am just asking for clarification on what "personal gain" Shadow000a00 could receive for removing posts and the "busy engaging in these activities" are. These are pretty serious offenses, if found to be true. If I am to make an informed decision, I would like all the information or just the information and none of the editorial.
8
Let's say I had the power to delete the above post - your post - and I did it for no other reason than I disliked it - it would not 'gain' me anything, but I am sure you would not accept me doing so for the sake of it.
4
[deleted]
1
I would just like to point out this post by moletrap.
1
Just because a site has a voting system doesn't mean you can forgo standard moderation procedures. That's like saying a democracy doesn't need laws cause everyone can vote on what's acceptable.
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I feel like I'm in the minority in saying this, but if these events are accurate, it seems justified. Regarding Tyler specifically, it's not unreasonable to suspect that perhaps Tyler himself may have a requested that a mod remove that post. Perhaps not, but the point is we don't know the full extent of that particular situation. I didn't get a chance to read the thread made after accusing the mods of censorship, but I can see that could have gone down-hill very fast and it does not seem unreasonable to delete either.
I understand that for many of people, the issue of censorship is probably more ideological than really about them caring about the specific issue, and I understand that it kind of alters what reddit is supposed to be. However personally, I can think of a few situations where it could be seen as acceptable. Just my two cents.
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Even if God himself asked Shade to take down the post it never should have been. This is a public forum where issues relating to sc2 are discussed. Tyler made a mistake in public (on his for profit stream with viewers watching) and as such the details are public and worthy of dicussion.
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How far does this go though? What if he accidentally posted his phone number on the stream? What if it was his address? What if it was his cc number, or social, or that his wife had an abortion?
What if the information wasn't gotten from the stream. What if someone went through his trash and found out that he plans to move because his mom is dying?
If Tyler dropped out of SCII for whatever reason it would affect the game, even if only slightly. State of the Game would be different if Tyler weren't on it, that's enough right there. So almost anything that could possibly affect Tyler is related to SC2 in some way. That doesn't mean that Tyler isn't allowed to have a personal life.
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You missed the fundamentals. It is not a right to have a for profit stream. Tyler CHOSE to have one. He also CHOSE to have a private conversation WHILE streaming. Unfortunately, as distastful as it is, if it was his address, his phone number, his credit card number or even details about his wife it was HIS mistake, but he made it public.
It's like if you were walking down the street and a man with a camera took a picture and you happened to be in it. The man did nothing wrong since he took a picture in public space. He would be free to show this picture to friends, family, or 36k redditors.
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Celebrities don't get to have personal lives. Tyler is a Starcraft celebrity. It sucks, but it's true. People eat this kind of shit up.
If it was his phone number, he should change it. If it was his CC, he should cancel it. If it was his social, wtf is he doing posting that anywhere NEAR a live stream. If it was his wife having an abortion, it would be discussed.
If it wasn't from the steam the reddit community would downvote the idiot who was dumpster diving because the hivemind here thinks that kind of behavior is wrong.
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The sentence where the submitter brings up "personal gain" is quite confusing but I think it's clear enough that he is saying that Shade00a000 derived "personal gain" from the "departure" of previous mods which he claims were the result accusations of conflict of interest.
I don't see how the submitter directly claims Shade00a000's personal gain is relevant to the other ideas he is bringing up, only the WellPlayed mod departures. The events you've listed aren't in that context.
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As a moderator he should never have asked the OP to remove their posts. He is overstepping on that point alone. Regardless of whether Tyler intended the conversation to be private or not, it wasn't. His "mistake" was public and as such can be discussed in public.
To your question about personal gain perhaps he was trying to gain favour with TL or Tyler specifically or perhaps he is applying for modship over at TL and wanted to show that he knows how to use the delete button.
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You took advantage of the recent departure of WellPlayed moderators (Vequeth, FearGorm, and SeaGnome) under the accusation of the possibility of a conflict of interest for personal gain.
Meaning that he used their abdication as moderators to his advantage to increase his status as a moderator or gain moderator status for himself (I'm not sure if he was a mod before they left). The OP isn't suggesting that he gained anything by removing these posts; he's saying that he gained from their departure as moderators. I think that's fairly clear given the context.
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Some are obsessed with it because of the power and control it brings, and the more I read shade's posts the more I get the impression that he falls into that category.
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If that is right then I agree. Someone is butt hurt and wants Shade gone and is trying to create drama where there is none (thanks to mods deleting posts containing personal information)
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but I see absolutely no "gains" for him personally.
Ego boost. The biggest gain of all for megalomaniacs.
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If this is true than I'm very ashamed of r/starcraft. Freedom of Speech upheld to the detriment of the safety of someone else's person or property should not be tolerated.
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[deleted]
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A lot of the posts/comments he removed would have been downvoted by the community most probably.
I really don't understand why he would go out of his way to get rid of them despite that being antithetical to the reddit model where content (good or bad) is user moderated.
I appreciate the work mods do on subreddit's but I don't think content moderation is a good thing for r/starcraft. We get enough of that on other forums and user based content moderation is one of the major appeals of using r/starcraft.
edit: To clarify my position, I don't think removing shade outright is the best course of action (if that's even possible). Others have mentioned this as well but I believe giving him a chance to change how he moderates would be best.
edit2: It seems obvious he's been ramping up the censorship since this thread went popular. I take back my initial stance, he should resign/be removed if possible.
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I dunno man. I think the mistake he made is the one that can't be forgiven. The beauty of the internet is the ability to have open discussion w/out censorship. On a forum with a community based voting system censorship has no place and as such someone who thinks it does doesn't belong.
All this ignoring the fact that the Tyler posts should never have been censored inthe first place since it was worthy of discussion and made public by Tyler himself on his public stream.
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[deleted]
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my problem is that you, in a position of authority (mod), asked people to remove their posts. That never should have happened.
Let me add though, that I do appreciate that your not hidding from this and seem willing to talk about it.
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That's a silly opinion, though. He's asking them to remove their own content outside of his role as a moderator. If he wanted to order them to do so, he could just remove the post or not re-approve it.
Him asking someone to remove a post as a courtesy to Tyler is the same as you or I doing so. It's a personal appeal to the decency/politeness of the submitter, not an appeal to his authority as a mod (which he had the opportunity to make and rejected).
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[deleted]
-5
I stand with my brother-in-arms.
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Can i be a step-brother?
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Awaiting Shade00a00 to remove the post and ban OP_IS_MASTERS_FYI
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User was temp-banned for this post.
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COMMENT DELETED BY Shade00a00
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[deleted]
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As the one mod who seems to be unrelated to this whole fiasco may I ask what's your take on this situation?
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I've read through a TON of responses from all sides and honestly: everyone needs to just chill the fuck out. Its seriously not that big of a deal. We moderate a TON of content on Rstarcraft and remove quite of bit of spam and bullshit. Shade wasn't told/bought/influenced by outside forces, he made an appropriate judgement call to avoid a lot of fake BS. Sadly some people didn't read the facts and decided to blow this all out of proportion. My take is that a bit of the community here feels oddly entitled to bitching and moaning and overlooking what the mods do here; but ultimately I don't see Shade as unfit or even really that wrong.
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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the OP's stuff didn't particularly concern me; however, Shade's reply which is now at negative three hundred some votes does, on the other hand, make him look incredibly unfit to moderate.
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I don't think anyone is blaming him for these little things. Theres a lot of spam and dubious content, and there always is an error margin, where stuff is deleted (or not deleted) accidentally.
However, this:
Now, I don't believe that this type of post is actually content you want on the front page, and while a well-written post about moderation being corrupt is fun to read, it's probably not the best thing for the community.
For transparency's sake, again, I'm not going to do anything to it, but if you don't want the story to go on for days, do what you feel is best.
coming from him (about this thread), is a serious issue, no matter how you look at it. This IS different than sorting out spam.
I mean, are we supposed to be grateful, that we are 'allowed' to discuss openly moderation of this subreddit? I'm sure this is what the community wants, because of the >1000 upvotes. This stance is not acceptable from a moderator. Moderator is not a curator of content, his task is to filter out and delete trash and inappropriate content. And saying 'I'm not gonna abuse my power, because I'm feeling nice' is NOT appropriate.
I know that he's human, and that was probably a shitty day for him, and I'm sure no one will mind if he changes his stance, apologizes and continues his modding within reason.
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While I disagree with your assessment that Shade should still be a mod, yeah I must agree everybody should take a chill pill and talk about this rationally instead of getting into heated emotional arguments. Thanks for the reply.
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This post has been removed from the front page of r/starcraft and OP_IS_MASTERS_FYI was banned by Shade00a00.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/hh2i1/op_is_masters_fyi_here_ive_been_banned_from/
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OP_IS_MASTERS_FYI for moderator.
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Isn't this a screenshot of the moderator panel?
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The screenshot was originally posted by Shade00a00.
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Definitely. He was removing posts that should have been decided by the community with the voting system. The most appalling aspect of his actions is that he finds it obvious that he as a moderator should be controlling what the community should be able to see.
edit: This is fucking ridiculous. He's now removing all threads and members that criticize him. Is there really nothing we can do?
Unfortunately there is not much that can be done. Either he will resign as a mod, which is almost damn near a 0% chance, or he will stop censoring the content and all will be well.
If he continues censoring, there is nothing else that can be done. Subreddits are basically owned by their moderators. They can do whatever they want. Sure, the users may not like them for it, but that's the way it goes. That is what the admins have said many times. 'Either deal with it, or make your own subreddit,' they've said.
Just statin' the facts here. I guess the best thing to do would be bother Shade00a00 until he agrees to add another mod or two to keep an eye on things for a while.
The creator of r/starcraft has the ability to add/remove mods.
Who is the creator?
Firi, who is no longer a mod, and the current mod who has been around longest is Shade (second mod).
Well most people at r/atheism would say the Flying Spaghetti Monster ...
-Is there nothing we can do?
-There is.. one person who can help us, sir.
-Who is that?
-The creator, Sir!
crowd gasps, crowd mumbles
-Who is this.. creator?
-He is older than the world itself. Noone knows where he came from.
-Where do we find this.. creator?
-We have to travel to the ends of this world, through time and space.
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The creator(s) of reddit have the ability to......
I VOTE FOR DOUG!
Sadly, I have absolutely no idea what starcraft is... So retract that vote.
SOME WOULD SAY THAT IS A CRIPPLING BLOW TO YOUR CANDIDACY, BUT I SEE IT AS AN ADVANTAGE!
fish
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Meta moderation is a long overdue feature for reddit.
[deleted]
There's an r/starcraft2 subreddit.
[deleted]
Are you a moron?
The game we're playing now is the sequel to Starcraft. It is called... Starcraft 2.
r/starcraft2 makes sense (and already exists).
Adding moderators?!?!?! Thats your solution?!
moderators are for spam on reddit, nothing else.
Do you see some excessive amount of spam?
Three of the mods have to go (the two from Wellplayed and Shade) so we could use a few new mods.
That's what I don't get about this whole thing. I thought the whole up/down vote thing is so that things people like are noticed, and things they don't are out-of-sight, buried in some deep corner. Why does ANY subreddit need moderation, beyond getting rid of the "Fill out this survey for a free iPad!" nonsense?
Did he click on the wrong button as a moderator? He aimed for the down arrow, and hit "delete" by mistake?
nope, delete is down by the reply buttons, or by the save button for links, no where near the arrows
And it can be reverted, and there's a confirmation for doing it in the first place.
I'm not coming to Shade's defense here, because I don't know anything about his particular case. But I think I can answer that question, even though it's only with hypotheticals.
What if someone posted Day9's address?
What if someone posted a link to Idra's secret girlfriend's Facebook?
What if someone posted some rumor which was widely believed, but untrue?
These are all situations where the community can not or will not moderate itself. But I think it's clear that these submissions should be moderated.
Personal information like home addresses should definitely be deleted, but I have no idea how big a problem that really is. However, posting untrue information should not be moderated. Nearly everyday I read an article, then I open up the discussion and see the first/highest post is someone breaking down why the article/statement is false. It's why I love reddit, bullshit gets called out and shown how it is untrue (discussing real information, not debates like "who is more BM, idra or cruncher").
For sure. I was responding to the question "Why does ANY subreddit need moderation?" Which I think we both agree is a ridiculous one. I think moderation is important, and that 99.9% of content should not be moderated.
Shawn would love it!
Rapture.
Jaedong really is the father of Boxer, as improbable as it seems.
Moderation in all things, including moderation?
Reddit has absolutely no rules for moderators. They recommend that mods delete blatant spam and the posting of user personal information. But even that is optional. As a mod you can delete everything, nothing and anything in-between.
It can work well for mods to remove nonspam types of posts (because the nature if reddit tends to favour memes and images ether ethnic more intelligent discussions or debates) BUT they must have a mandate from the community to do this particularly in larger communities. Shade doesnt have such a mandate. In fact the community removed mods for the risk of such behaviour.
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As I am currently getting drunk on whiskey, I would like to compliment your username. Also, well said.
Who gives a shit? Maybe if they actually did some moderation we wouldn't have so much fucking dumb shit on the front page, this thread included.
You can all go to r/starcraft2 and circlejerk your memes and retarded theorycrafting threads over there. Please, fucking please go.
edit: For fucks sake? How in the hell do I get downvoted for stating the truth? We finally get rid of that fucktard feargorm and now you want to get rid of the only decent moderator this hellhole has?
You're getting downvoted for being a dick.
No, I get downvoted for telling the truth.
Just a wild guess but the self-moderating nature of the voting system is manifesting itself, this time directed at your post. Obviously more than a few people have an issue with your statement, and they are properly using the Reddit system to respond accordingly.
Please don't complain about it when it doesn't work in your favor. That's just...whining. You don't want to be a whiner, do you?
although it is overwhelmingly the main use, that's actually not the proper use of the reddit voting system at all
Well, under the moderation system you are proposing / defending, where moderators delete posts, your post wouldn't even be seen (considering its -ve rating right now).
It's obvious you have a problem with the voting system, whether it's your comment or the front page. Why are you on reddit again?
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Are you happy with your life?
Such are the costs of going against the reddit hivemind. Just be glad you didnt mention Call of Duty!!!!!
Downvoted for mentioning.
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Reddit is a true democracy. The act of voting merely serves to give you a false sense of control. When the shit hits the fan, you realize who is really in control, and they ultimately aren't bound by what the majority wants.
I think removing the Tyler posts was a good decision. His private life is none of our business and I see no reason at all for leaving it up on here. And no, the voting system is obviously not a good way to moderate things like this, because people first have to read what it's about before they can vote.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/hh1uq/shade_related_topics_deleted/
Needless to say, I was banned 30 sec after posting that.
This isn't Team Liquid!
I don't think that word means what you think it means. This is a video game, not genocide.