MenethOPProgrammer•

The Swedish Migration Agency wants to deport my friend and coworker Vachon for errors made, and since corrected, by her previous employer. This is ridiculous. Losing Vachon would be a huge loss to Paradox, Hearts of Iron IV, and to Sweden. The agency is in desperate need of reform.

101
Qel_Hoth•

The article makes it sound like the mistakes were a previous employer's and not something that the individual had any control over or likely would have had any knowledge of.

One would think, then, that the appropriate remedy would be a fine for the previous employer, not a deportation of a worker who is no longer working for the employer who is alleged to have exploited them.

24
28lobsterFleet Admiral•

Pugh was the first international worker her previous company had employed, and it had been set to start paying out the workplace insurances as soon as the trial period ended. It has since changed its routines so that they take effect immediately.

"I don't believe that my previous employer had ill intentions, it was an oversight. I understand that the rules are there to stop people from being exploited, but I wasn't exploited, it was an accident," says Pugh

It was only five months of unpaid insurance out of her two years at the company, during her trial period, and during the time the law changed regarding when to start paying insurance.

And then she gets shipped back to Florida? What a dumb way to lose talented people. Glad PDX is backing her up.

15
Dungeon_Pastor•

I think what surprises me is we get so many posts in law based subreddits of something to the effect of "I did this, but the letter of the law doesn't ban this, only that"

That being some mildly different but definitely still under the spirit of the law thing.

And lawyers and judges and legal enthusiasts will say "this idea you can game the legal system, that a judge will just say 'drat, he's right, it's not strictly and exactly defined as illegal' is wrong, and that they can and will show some discretion"

But then there's stuff like this, where any amount of that discretion would very obviously resolve this case in a rational way, and it leaves me scratching my head, cause from here the system absolutely looks mindlessly automated and something to be gamed.

10
devinejoh•

Sweden is ridiculous with how opaque and strict the worker immigration system is. Plenty of horror stories of productive individuals being deported because a form was filled out incorrectly.

16
kadaeuxResearch Scientist•

Is there nothing that can be done?

6
Indyclone77Fleet Admiral•

Losing Vachon would be an absolute nightmare for HOI4 and Paradox as a whole as Meneth says. She made me feel very welcome while I worked as freelance artist on La Resistance and she also scripted the Portuguese Tree into the dlc too. She's also my friend and it's incredibly painful to see a friend go through such hardship of no fault of her own.

28
bhldev•

Zero tolerance means zero brains

Give judges discretion to hand out sentences based on guidelines and stop creating mandatory minimum sentences, absolute interpretations of laws and absolute conditions

Yes, judges can make law saying they can't ignores truths and encourages stupid results and extremism... I'd rather trust professionals with lots of education and traditions than politicians or mob opinions

23
Kullenbergus•

Judges in Sweden are mostly political appointies...And the swedish migration agency are basicly a forum for political activists this days. Constant scandals about sending back people that behaving them self but due to a spelling error or something of that magnitude they get sent back to where they came. Meanwhile its against human rights to send rapists and murders out of the country.

8
KitchenDepartment•

Judges in Sweden are mostly political appointes

No they are not and that would be highly illegal

4
Piotlus•

Well I agree up to the third paragraph, it feels to me you're pushing for common law system(for a country that is fundamentally different) using an argument that "specific piece of legislation was bad ergo whole system is bad". Or you're an American and maybe don't have a firm grasp on continental system.

Either way, it's a very interesting debate but definitely, absolutely not in this situation. I somewhat hope there would be a petition or anything really that might help this person.

2†
playkingdom•

Damn, I really hope something good happens.

6
redditguy628•

If the goal is to stop workers from being exploited, why on earth are they deporting the person who was exploited? They should go after the employer.

2†
ZombieNubResearch Scientist•

I'm confused, so if I could ask some questions:

The Migration Agency found no fault with either her first or current employment – but her second employer failed to pay out a number of workplace and pension insurances during her trial period.

  1. Does it matter to the Swedish legal system that her first and current employment had no faults when judging her second employment?

  2. Why would her second employer failing to pay insurances cause her permit to become invalid?

  3. What are insurances, and how are they different in Sweden, if at all?

In 2015, Swedish laws were tightened to stop the exploitation of foreign workers. But as The Local has previously reported, it also led to the deportation of hundreds of work permit holders working for serious employers over often minor administrative errors.

  1. Simply, how and why?

The rejection letter, seen by The Local, states that the mistakes were not rectified until the agency pointed them out, and that "a period of approximately five and a half months of lost insurances, during a period of two years of permits, is long enough to find that the conditions for your previous work permit were not met".

  1. So her employer not paying out insurances to Pugh is causing Pugh to be punished? In an extension to the previous question, what is causing this to happen?

  2. (more of an overall question) Is there any precedent relevant to this case?

1
thatcommiegamer•

(more of an overall question) Is there any precedent relevant to this case?

For this question since Sweden is a civil law country precendent does not really factor into cases in the way they'd do in UK and US based common law systems. If you want a closer example look at how local cases are dealt with in Louisiana (who's law system is civil law based on the Napoleonic code) compared to the rest of the US.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-1†
UFeindschiff•

I don't think a company being able to "throw their weight around" in order to influence or change decisions by public administration is a good thing and don't think it should be encouraged.

(The decision is stupid nonetheless and I hope they can work it out, but I think Paradox should stay out of it)

-3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
SevenSecrets•

That's exactly why it's bad that Paradox are able to throw their weight around and why we shouldn't encourage them to do it. Legal =/= good.

-2