I've added fluthub to my software sources in F32, and now all the software available as both flatpak and RPM is being installed as flatpak by default.
There is a switch allowing to choose between sources, but I see no option to prioritize RPMs. So, how to enforce RPMs by default?
Posted Jul 17, 2020, 11:29 AM UTC
Flathub probably has newer versions, thus higher versions get pulled in first.
So there is no way of prioritizing software sources? Time for an issue report it seems.
Not with packagekit no.
DNF is the main rpm package manager on Fedora and is very configurable but just does rpms not Flatpaks.
Packagekit on the other hand, which Gnome Software interfaces with is not very configurable and there's no way of preferring one repo or source over another.
The standard behaviour of package managers is to manage and unify multiple software repositories and figure out package dependencies, what has the latest versions etc. so you don't have to. If you don't want to pull from Flathub disable the source.
It is not really a solution, but after installing the needed apps from flatpak (I guess there are few, as you mentioned spotify and zoom and a like), then you can disable the flatpak repo from software repositories.
However, I am not sure if flatpak updates would be pulled afterwards.
Also, I believe after 1-2 flatpak apps, other apps are not anymore "that" big.
GNOME will just WONTFIX and close your ticket. If you’re really particular about software sources, learn to use dnf and flatpak on the command line.
Use dnf. You know, Fedora's package manager.
I know, but that's my wife's laptop and she is more comfortable with GUI.
Is she running out of disk space, or is this just a philosophical concern? I've been using Silverblue, where just about everything is flatpak, on some older laptops with limited storage without running into space issues (but I'm not storing much media).
DNF really needs a graphical frontend that's not trash like Synaptic/Muon on the apt side. I mean I get that Fedora is mainly aimed at developers and advanced users but no harm in becoming a little more user-friendly.
There is dnfdragora. It works for the most part, but it does seem to crash a lot more than it should.
dnfdragora is worse than nothing. It takes less time to search go on pkgs.org and search for packages than use dnfdragora to search for stuff. Not to say that dnf is super fast in this area anyway.
You can choose the source, there's a combobox on the right of the headerbar for each package.
AFAIK GNOME Software doesn't "prioritize flatpaks", but lists all available sources on that combobox and chooses the first option, whatever it may be. For me, that's sometimes RPMFusion, sometimes Flathub, sometimes Fedora's own Flaptak registry, sometimes it's the base repos.
You can choose the source, there's a combobox on the right of the headerbar for each package.
Yes, I know. I'm asking how to make it select RPM by default.
Actually it's intended for Flatpak sources to be preferred. It started a while ago. This post from the gnome-software maintainer cast a light on what was to come: https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2019/02/14/packagekit-is-dead-long-live-well-something-else/
Nowadays gnome-software indeed does prefer flatpak (I can't find the blog post right now). While the move to flatpak within the GNOME community is strong, not all maintainers agree with flatpak being preferred. See here for the discussion: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/issues/1005
Yeah - Flatpak is one of the most moronic moves since.... well, anything else that I can think of in my 20+ years of using Linux....
Why do you think that? Disregarding any other benefit of flatpaks, the fact that I can write 1 manifest and get my app on every linux distro is way better than any other packaging system. Technical benefits don't even matter, being the only package format that multiple distros use in practice is extremely valuable, and for me that makes it worth it over every other package format.
So use AppImage. It actively discourages the use of 'lets install the entire KDE base!' approach that lazy developers have.
Failing that, use a static binary approach.
This problem has been fixed in *many* different ways going back well over 15 years... But now there's a new generation of developers that have no idea about what has come before so they re-invent the wheel....
Now we're just expected to accept a bloated, unmaintained and swiss-cheese model of software maintenance to account for lazy developers...
One of the constant reminders both myself and other managers who work in software development have is that what may be easier for the developers is not always right for the users... I feel Flatpak is a classic case of that...
AppImage isin't managed like flatpaks, updates, integration with the system, etc aren't as good. I don't get what your trying to say, apparently flatpaks lead to unmaintained software, but you suggest static linking everything into a binary, which would be even worse, as now if upstream never updates it like you think they won't, there's now no way to update the binary.
For 'lets install the entire KDE base!', you already have all those packages. That's kinda the point of flatpaks, it's not everything from KDE, it's stuff like gcc, gstreamer, libxcb, and all the other stuff you were already going to have anyways...
Furthermore, flatpak does what distros already have been doing for years. Debian builds all their apps against a fixed set of packages, and upgrade everything together in lock-step. That's basically what flatpak does, but instead of the set of packages being part of the os, you can manage them like a package. It's literately like targeting Debian 8 vs 9.
Finally, you haven't adressed the fact that no one wants to spend time making 3 different packages just for the most common linux distros. It's not lazy. Not wanting to make 3 separate accounts, learn 3 separate packaging formats, getting that all together, and maintaining it and doing 3 releases every time is not lazy. Frankly it's insulting to say developers are lazy and ignorant, especially when you say the problem was fixed 15 years ago, and don't even explain how.
What’s wrong with Flatpaks? They just work, it’s your wife after all, bet she doesn’t need specific packages, they only get her life easier. Try install Spotify with no Flatpak lmao. I gave up myself.
[deleted]
Overhead of the first package. Instead of the system most package managers use where you specify every single dependency, flatpak instead installs tons of common dependencies at the start. For instance, my flatpak'd game without the common depdencies is only ~6.6mb, and that's with pulling in a bunch of statically-linked rust dependencies, libx264enc, and a gstreamer plugin set.
Sometimes it can be a bit of additional hassle. For example I use the Zotero flatpak. But I can't access my Nextcloud folder by default, because it's on a different disk than my home folder. Also at first it didn't register my default PDF viewer and asked every time what program I used. This was fixed by installing an additional package, but still.
These are no big problems, but my point is that there are some things which might not work out of the box which work just fine for a RPM installation.
The flatpaks I currently use are PulseEffects, Spotify and Zotero and I only had problems with the last one. So they might not be common, but they are there.
u/DHermit
The behavior of Zotero to open the default app for PDF/etc. was not a problem of Zotero but from xdg-desktop-portal.
This was fixed. Flatpaks are a new concept in Linux world with sandbox and many existing problems are from the infrastructure finally being built.
And there are a lot of problems that aren't "problems", but people missing the premises of sandboxed apps.
It isn't a good practice to a sandboxed app to have access to all filesystem. This defeats the purpose of sandbox.
For example, Zotero Flatpak, by default, has access to your content at home, xdg-desktop, xdg-documents and xdg-download. If you trust Zotero, you can give permisssion to another directory with: flatpak override --user --filesystem=/PATH/TO/ZOTEROFOLDER org.zotero.Zotero. And this instruction is on https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.zotero.Zotero.
Anyway, Flatpak in an incredible technology to sandbox app and is a good idea learn the basic to use them effectively. With RPMs there are no way to distribute an software to anyone regardless distribution ... and you can't restrict in a easy way the access of this app to your system.
Ah, if you wanna configure access and permissions for Flatpaks without command line interface ... just use this app: https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal
I know all of that and have done that and it's not a lot of work to do. But still, the Zotero non Flatpak would've worked out of the box without manually giving permissions. I wouldn't have the great sandboxing features, but in this case I don't care. For other stuff I like it, but I doubt that most users would care if the program runs in a sandbox or not.
The users don't care about a lot of crucial things. But the designers of the system must care :D.
Beside that, installing Zotero and others apps without any kind of system integration is a mess. A friend of mine "installed" Zotero and others apps directly from the official site and the guy ask me why the app isn't listed at Gnome Software and how can he remove that software.
Flatpak provides a consistent way to list, update and remove software. AppImages, source installation or just unpack-use (like the official Zotero) don't.
Were you needing flathub for something that you couldn't get from RPM sources?
Is the flathub version causing problems that you're thinking RPMs would solve?
Flatpaks typically require more space, that's my primary concern. Yes, some software, like zoom or spotify, is available only through flathub, but if RPM is available, I'll prefer it be a default option.
Is this a philosophical worry or do you have a genuine space constraint?
Zoom has a rpm installer on their website. Screen sharing only works on the rpm installed for now and not the flatpak
And for Spotify: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/installing-spotify/
Screen sharing is working for me (Wayland+flatpak). The main concern for me to use flatpak for zoom is auto-updates trought software center.
Interesting. For me it says "Screensharing only works for wayland on F25 and above, even though I'm on fedora 32"
Turn off auto updates on gnome software then.
Flatpak itself doesn't auto update anything.
I know for a fact that there are zoom roms. It is available on the site.
If you use the dnf command from terminal, it installs rpms only. I don't use the gnome app manager gui cause it freezed my device quite a lot of times already.
[deleted]
Sometimes, Flatpaks are fine. Other times, they can be problematic. I had issues with the Flatpak version of Inkscape. My Bamboo tablet pen exhibited some quirky behavior. I removed the Flatpak and installed the RPM and my tablet pen worked flawlessly. If I recall correctly, the problem was specific to Wayland. My tablet pen worked fine with the Flatpak version of Inkscape under Xorg, but I prefer Wayland.
When you do a search it shows both results although typically the flatpacps show up first. I always look to see the origin before I install.
Consider remove the Flatpak support plugin package for the GNOME Software, this will prevent Flatpak packages from showing in the GUI while you still can manage it via CLI.
BTW Canonical published a custom build of GNOME Software that only enumerate and manages Snap packages, may be there's a Flatpak counterpart?
Why would you want to?
I personally just use the dnf and flatpak CLI tools. I can't stand PackageKit. Really wish Fedora had something similar to Synaptic, pamac, or YaST Software Management.
Just remember to run
systemctl enable --now dnf-makecache.timer
so you don't always have download a new cache every time you want to search your repos.
I think flatpak over RPMs is awesome! flatpak installations are persistents after a reinstall (if you have /home in a different partition or disk)
I may be wrong, but i think that is not flatpak by default, is the most update version....
If I’m wrong the only way will be by selecting manually...