I have an honest question: How does MFA justifies spending over 50$ for a piece of cloth?

I find this very true. My jeans are walmart levi's (I somewhat doubt authenticity) that cost me $13 a pair. They last many years and I wear them like they are the shit, and nobody cares honestly cares.

502 it went through, 504 try once more.

Well, your problem is that you're going to the mall to buy clothes.

old navy jeans on sale are 20 bucks.. and they have slim-straight cuts now, they looks pretty damn good. not sure if they'll last 5 years, but for 20 bucks.. not sure I care.

eh, if I came off like that, it's my mistake. I just meant that it's important to realize that $50 to you doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to someone else.

2220 a month is successful? he works part time and gets in 30-40 hours a week at a little more than minimum wage.

[deleted]

Nice detective work there! Yup, not all I do is completely legal, hence my reluctance to posting pictures of my face.

buy low, sell high.

I buy just about anything, (metals, jewelry, watches, guns, toys, antiques, etc) and then try to make a profit on the flip. Pretty easy, lots of fun.

Most recently, I attended the Comic-Con, bought like $1200 worth of toys, and so far I've almost doubled my money.

Psst. In a variable salary there is 80% chance the number he names is the top he's ever earned in a month, especially since he's a 16 year old kid.

Way ahead of you pal. All of my watches were purchased at prices I know I can profit off of, and I have a chunk of cash stowed away in commodities like gold and silver, as well as an up-and-coming stock portfolio. But I digress.

If you can't afford new clothes that don't exploit sweat shop labor (and I'm sure there are cheap clothes that fit that bill, but, just assuming), go to a thrift store. Even vegans will sometimes thrift a leather jacket, because secondhand doesn't count.

wait... you have $30?!? jealousy has been found.

Many people don't like that a company would accept cheap labour although they're from (or primarily sell to) a country that would never allow the same to take place.

it's not all about job vs no job. It's a gray area. Should 8 year olds be allowed to work? Should bosses be able to require 16 hour days? Should teenagers be playing with chemicals that are known to cause cancer if they come into contact with skin? Should there be any environmental protections for the dangerous chemicals used in manufacturing? The general argument isn't against them having jobs, it's against people exploiting the environment/government regulations (and the people) in the name of a few dollars of profit.

I think you're talking about brands and most of the people arguing against you are talking about quality.

For example, I won't buy a pair of $300 Prada shoes.* I don't know how much of that price is for the brand, and how much I'm actually paying for shoes that are no better than the house brand at K-Mart. I will, however, pay close to $300 for a pair of Alden or Allen Edmonds shoes, because I know that I'm paying for a top of the line shoe that will last me a long time. They are repairable, they are made well, and they look very nice (and to be honest, I get quite the deal on them).

If I am buying a pair of jeans, I will buy a nice pair of handmade selvage jeans for ~$200, of a pair of Levi 514's, depending on how much I'm willing to spend. I will not, however, waste money on paying $200 on jeans from a company that doesn't specialize in jeans.

edit: For the record I didn't downvote you.

*See my reply to jimcrator here regarding what I meant about Prada. If there was a massive sale and (good) Prada shoes were $200 or so, I probably wouldn't pass them up if I was in the market. I only meant that $300 won't get you good shoes from them, usually.

If you go to a franchised store, of ANY brand, not only will there be hundreds, thousands even, of the same item in the store, most likely none of them as ever even been touched by a human.

I see you've neglected my question further down in the comments, so I will repeat it here. What the fuck are you talking about?

The last time I went to a Jil Sander boutique, it was to pick up the cross tee from its SS11 collection. It turned out that none of the boutiques in Korea carried them, so they recommended me a similar printed shirt, of which only two were ever stocked and not two in the same store, two in the entire country. In fact, I've never seen any boutique stock "thousands of the same item in the store".

But clearly, your experience with designer clothing has been different, so I gracefully request that you specify what you're talking about.

If you've ever tried using a sewing machine, you'll find it's a complicated business.

In the sort of countries where most clothing is made (China, India, Thailand) for example, it is far cheaper to pay a human than to make, service and produce such a complex machine that can make a decent garment from scratch.

I haven't seen any stats but I would be willing to make a bet that the vast majority of clothing, from a Savile Row suit to a pair of supermarket boxer shorts, is stitched together by hand.

You're raging against specific overpriced clothes/brands, except you aren't saying what those brands are (other than the one pair of jeans you bought), or asserting that anyone here is buying them or reccomending that we buy them. Each 'piece of cloth' is an individual decision.

Some clothes are worth the money they're sold for, some aren't. There's a good chance that whatever the most expensive piece of clothing you can buy isn't a great value. But that doesn't mean that anything above $50 is unjustified.

My salary and my spelling abilities are very much unrelated, either way, sorry about that.

I really don't refer people to frugalmfa to direct people away; I want the community to receive more coverage, members and posts because I understand that being well dressed does not require a great deal of money.

Growing up my family had money for nothing but thrift stores and yard sales. I've actually been considering commiting to buying everything secondhand for a full year and having a segment in frugalmfa to document it.

I work in fashion, and I can tell you that yes, generally speaking, more-expensive items were likely harder to make and made of more expensive material. The man hours alone put into pattern making, tailoring, prototypes, edits to the prototypes and selection of fabrics is probably much more than you realize. Add to that the sewing process, and you're tacking on another decent amount of time.

Yes, clothing is made with a sewing machine most of the time, but someone has to man that sewing machine. A well-done hem on a shirt takes precision and attention to detail that you wouldn't believe. And don't forget that many small details are, in fact, done by hand on higher-end garments, resulting in them lasting much longer and carrying a much cleaner finish.

I don't want to come off as snobby, but in ways, I can't help but be a bit offended. I don't think you meant it this way, but there's a lot of really hard work that goes into creating quality garments, and you seem to really be discounting that. It's not all just fluff and smoke and mirrors - durable, classic garments take a lot of time and effort to create.

I have put easily 15 hours of work into one dress. Not because I had to, but because I wanted it to be quality - because that was the industry standard where I was working. This meant creating the pattern, cutting out the pieces, hand-pressing and rolling seams, french seams on the lining, over-locking areas for extra durability, re-pressing pleats, adding darts, hand-tacking the lining... This stuff takes time. Factoring in labour and cost of material, the dress would have sold for about £300 at cost, with no profit to me. And this was no ball gown, but rather a simple-looking dress for a bridal collection.

This doesn't go for all companies. Plenty of companies raise their prices ridiculously high with little justification. But a lot of higher-end brands are priced the way they are for a reason - they just might be reasons you're unaware of.

tl;dr - There's more than meets the eye when it comes to quality garment construction.

edited for spelling

300 Levi's are probably part of the Levi's Vintage Clothing (LVC) collection. They are made from historic cuts, in smaller numbers, with higher quality denim woven on shuttle looms, and I think made in the USA.

Are you USA/UK? I've started this with the hope of helping people develop unique and interesting wardrobes.

Most of the best brands out there aren't that big, per se. At least in the way one would think Prada, Gucci, and Ralph Lauren are. They certainly aren't huge.

I feel like I'm paying to be a walking billboard

Why? Are you wearing a t-shirt plastered with the brand all over it? If you're just wearing a plain t-shirt or plain button-up, there's no reason to feel like a walking billboard. The only difference the average person can tell exists between your shirt and a cheap shirt at Target is that your shirt fits you very well.

I don't know which H&M you're going too, but the one around me is dirt cheap. The Gap and BR are slightly more expensive.

Not everything from H&M is dirt cheap but the $6 v-necks keep me going back.

I'm with you. Target's Mossimo t-shirts are fantastic. Fit like American Apparel for a third of the cost.

Your biggest problem was stated earlier, and that is that you don't appreciate fashion.

For example, you talk about buying 3 $20 shirts instead of 1 50$ shirt, now this logic has absolutely no bearing to any meaningful fashion conversation. If you want to be fashionable, then it will be a priority of yours, and thus you will do your research, find what brands fit you for the cheapest prices, and look for sales. I have a very expensive wardrobe, but I paid almost half-off for everything I own, from socks all the way up to suits. It is because I care about what I wear, I don't even look at prices anymore because they are not completely indicative of quality, what is more important is knowing that a $20 "XXX"brand shirt fits better than any other brand "YYY" at a price greater than or equal to 20.

Your arguments are all based off your personal distaste towards spending money on "cloth". Your approached is flawed because the same argument could be made for cars, computers, golf clubs, food, etc... whatever you have an affinity towards.

I am a dirty cheap sonofabitch, but because fashion is very important to me, I have used all of my available resources, including my free time, to research the best places to get clothes that fit me for the prices I am willing to spend.

If you are the type who thinks fashion can be achieved by walking through a mall and picking out clothes from the windows of big clothiers than you are just a mainstream sucker who the industry knows will pay more for the shit they produce. This goes for Harry Rosen-esque stores too, a lot of the stuff in those stores are garbage for the prices you pay, but if you are not fashionable, and work downtown making over 6 figures, you're a fucking sucker for them and they know it. If you internalize your fashion sense, then you care about finding the stores and brands that fit you best and work from there.

If you are so lazy that you would rather just grab 5 shit shirts over what you perceive as a "prestige" brand, then you have no hope, and should continue to dress as garbage as you probably do. If you're not lazy, and are serious about looking better, then turn it into a hobby like the rest of us have done. You have to be interested in fashion and willing to do the ground work to find out what fits you best for prices you're happy spending (this is the worst part, visiting malls, scouring internet forums, reading reviews, chatting with well-dressed friends/ neighbours). Until you've done this research and know the slightest bit about clothing/ brands then your arguments just scream you have no idea what is out there, and sound as if you're acting pompous in your ignorance.

I agree, but wouldn't it be wiser to buy 3 20$ ones and, you know, have 3 different t-shirts for about the same price? And just replace them next year (which you'll be doing with the 50$ one anyway)?

Well then there's the issue of fit. Occasionally I'll find something that's comfortable and fits pretty well from Jay Jay's or Target, but most of the time, they are just two pieces of cloth sewn together with no regard for how they actually look on a human body. Fine for wearing around the house, but otherwise pretty poor.

and I think despite it's cost I look pretty sharp in it

Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough - good on you if and when you do

That's great if you can find clothes that fit well at cheap prices. Personally, finding well-fitting t-shirts is a difficult and expensive affair, resulting in t-shirt that cost around $30 generally.

You shouldn't buy brands to feel prestigious. Anyone whose opinion is respected here would tell you that's tacky. You should use brands to make an educated guess as to whether the clothing is reputed to last longer, fit better, and or look better than all other options familiar to you, but only if it's at a price that is reasonable or justifiable for you depending on your income, experience with said and other similar clothing, and what you may have heard about it.

No this is a German retail chain wizh a stupid name. They have good jeans sometimes, but mostly it's like Forever 18.

Depends on where you're from. Clothes are very expensive where I'm from and $100 for jeans is normal here, most of my jeans cost me about €90, US prices are really low in comparison. As I said, there are some very times when I find some jeans for about €50 in New Yorker or another low price chain, but I generally like to stick with Levi's and similar tried and true brands. Are you from Europe or the US?

your statement, that you paid 70$ too much for a jack & jones jeans is correct. try a boss orange jeans for about 150$ and tell me after two years which one of these still fits, looks good and isn't in pieces.

I can understand, that there isn't that much of a difference in quality between a 200$ sweater and a 3000$ sweater, however there is a huuuge one between a 50$ sweater and a 100-200$ sweater.

you should never buy clothes you don't know from designer labels you don't know, or for the sake of any designer label. find out which brand produces quality and try them. never ever were clothes with huge brand names and labels, because then you're right about that walking billboard.

Fabric Quality has many factors.

First is the type of fabric. Are you looking at a 100% cotton t-shirt, or are you looking at a t-shirt that's 60% cotton and 40%polyester? Cotton breathes and is more comfortable than polyester, though some people enjoy the polyester in their clothing. You also have fabrics like wool, linnen, silk, nylon, polyester, acrylic, cotton, jute and flax. Each of these fibers have their own qualities.

Then there's the quality of the fiber itself. Again using the example of a t-shirt, if it's 100% cotton one wants the longest fibers possible, this minimizes pilling, allows for longer life, and will feel softer with age. The higher end clothes use the long fibers, cheeper brands will use shorter fibers which are less expensive from supliers.

Then there is how the fiber has been prepared to be created into fabric. The spinning process for natural fibers, or the filliment creation process for synthetics. The considerations here are how tightly the fibers are spun together, how thick they are spun, and how ballanced the twist is.

Next is the actual fabric creation process. Weather it's woven, or knit, or felted, or whatever, also how it's done, how much tension is put into the fabric and how tightly the fibers lay. These are all things that fall into personal preference.

Obviously you're not going to know all of this based on looking at a garment. Part of the price you pay is to ensure proper handling of the fabric from the fiber stage. I always recommend someone go into a department store (macy's or the like, someone that carries cheaper brands and high end) and really feel the fabrics between the price points. The fabric really does have a different hand when it's high quality, it just feels better.

Alright, I've deleted my response twice, I'll try this one more time.

First, you have the expense of the fabric. An important conversation is natural fabrics (wool, cotton, linen, silk, &c.) versus synthetics (polyester, viscose, Lycra, &c.). Natural fabrics are usually more expensive, but are generally seen as superior. They usually hang and breathe better. Synthetics have a few advantages (wrinkle and stain resistance, among others). Natural fabrics are usually preferred.

Second, you have the cost of the fabric. One component is the base price of raw materials. How fine and rare is the wool? How long are the silk fibers? Second is the manufacturing process. How difficult is it to manufacture the fabric, and how large are the production runs? The cost is basically raw materials + production.

Next, we have usefulness. Most suits will be made out of worsted wool. Worsted wool is generally branded as a year-round fabric. Of course, it doesn't make sense that the fabric that is best for summer is also the fabric best for winter. Worsted wool is a compromise.

There's a common saying that polyester "keeps you cool in the winter and hot in the summer." You'd hope there'd be a fabric that did the opposite, but there's really not. There are fabrics best suited to individual seasons (I prefer flannels and tweeds (both weaves ideally made from wool) in the winter), cotton and linen in the summer, and whatever fabric makes the most sense depending on the region for fall and spring). Since most people own fewer than three suits, it doesn't make sense to have suits that can only be worn a quarter of the year when the priority is having a solid everyday wardrobe.

So, what are the most important points? First, you'll see a lot of wool suits with numbers (100-200) beside them. This is effectively how thin the fabric is. Don't think it correlates with quality (there are some correlations, but that aren't important at this level). I assume you're shopping at the average department store ($200-500 for a suit)? This is fine. Everyone has a price level, and this is as good as any. Fit is definitely the most important aspect. Find a suit that fits. Now, ~99% of off-the-rack suits require tailoring. This is part of the cost of a suit. You'll have to pay ~$12 for hemming the legs, ~#20 for the sleeves, and maybe ~$25 for taking in the waist. Look in the yellow pages, ask friends, or search Yelp.com. Keep in mind that the most important thing is that the suit fits in the shoulders. Tailors can alter damn-near anything, but altering the shoulders will cost way more than its worth. Also, it's easier to take something in than to let it out, but try to avoid buying anything too big.

So, as for "cloth" other than suits? Don't pay more than $25 for a t-shirt, the most important aspect of denim is fit (there are pages to be written on denim, but the most important thing is to buy dark jeans that don't come with holes or fading), and it's most important that dress shirts fit. If you're looking to pay less than $50 for a dress shirt, find something that fits (not too loose around the waist or sleeves, not too large an armhole, and not too long in the sleeve). Some people will tell you to go for 100% cotton on a dress shirt, but that's more a comfort thing than it is appearance. Honestly, I'd rather a dress shirt fit well and stay wrinkle free.

Finally, don't buy t-shirts that have big brand names plastered on them. What's the point? People will speak out against graphic tees entirely, but that depends on your style. It's usually better to buy plain t-shirts, but depending on your style, it's fine to have a shirt with a design on it, so long as it's not a logo or text.

I hope that answers your question. Please ask for clarification if there's anything I didn't answer.